Bench length. Is it possible to be too long?

[Josh Rudolph]

I am really starting to consider building myself a decent bench for hand work and wanted to get some opinions. I have a general bench that was setup as an outfeed to the table saw and is the same height of the router table.

However, I no longer have a table saw and use the router table less and less. By my posting here, I am heading more and more down the hand tool path. My current bench work holdings are not ideal at all and it is too tall for hand work IMO. The one vise I have on it is on the right face and is beginning to sag. It is having problems disengaging. So every time I need to hand plane something I long for a better bench.

I am the exception to most and have a lot of space that I could occupy with a bench. I have read all the talk about a bench can't be too long, but I am just not buying it yet. Without question my bench will be at least 8' long with a sliding deadman. I have extra bench screws that if I make it long enough I may even turn the deadman into a sliding face vise. This bench will most likely be accessible from all 4 sides, with only a slight chance of going against a wall.

I should add I don't have any set type of work I like to do. Whatever strikes me that day is what I will end up doing.

If space were not an issue, how long would you make your bench?

Anyone work on a bench longer than say 12'? If so, what was your thoughts?

Thanks

[michael osadchuk]

Josh,

I have a benchtop that is 10' by 31&1/2" by 3&1/4" laminated maple.

I made it that big because I already had a low machinist table substructure (made of angle iron) almost that long and not quite that wide; lots of roughsawn maple timbers and two of the smallest Record quick-release metal vises.

I kept the benchtop in two pieces (each about 16" wide) just to made it possible assemble the thing and attached a Lee Valley twin screw vise on the end (again attaching it to the top and substructure in a way allowing for disassembly without having to break a glue joint). I put the two Record on the front of the bench, each one centered about 18" from the ends, allowing me to securing hold longer timbers.

No issues, other than the assembly (and possible disassembly) considerations with that much weight to move around. Yeah, it's a few extra steps to walk around to the other side of the bench.

The length certainly allows a couple/several different projects or steps to be occurring at the same time.

good luck

michael

[Jim Ritter]

I'm about to install a 30' long bench with 4 leg vises along one wall of our community boat shop. Mostly for more than one person at a time and general planking work.
Jim

[Ryan Baker]

If space is not an issue, I would definitely build a bench 8-10 ft minimum in length, because you need that at times for long boards or mouldings. At some point (I am guessing around 12 feet or so), it is going to start to be more of a pain to always be walking around a really long bench (assuming it is located somewhere you would need to go around to the other side). Exactly where it becomes too long is going to depend on your space and the type of work you do. In general, longer is better, but there is a practical limit.

I also started out matching bench height to my table saw, router table, etc. As you have found, that generally means that your bench ends up being too high for hand tool work. I do like my bench higher than a traditional hand tool bench, but power tool height is high for planing. I would suggest you build the new bench at a comfortable height for hand tools, and not to match the other tools.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Hey Josh, I've been in a few spacious shops and what I've noticed is that rather than having one huge bench, folks have separate benches - using one mainly for hand tool work and another for assembly and finishing, perhaps another for a sharpening station or carving bench. In some cases the assembly benches sit a bit lower than a hand tool bench - some still have vises

If you are making cabinets and furniture, I doubt you will need more than 8' of length for any given project. When you mentioned a sliding face vice, are you anticipating a sliding leg vise? I've seen a couple of those posted here.

If you anticipate getting into boat building, then you might want a bench as long as your shop can hold.

[Joe A Faulkner]

If space is not an issue, I would definitely build a bench 8-10 ft minimum in length, because you need that at times for long boards or mouldings. ...
Ryan and I were responding at the same time. He just hit the enter key sooner than I did. I didn't think about the possibility of making crown or baseboard moldings. In that case, a longer bench would certainly be of benefit.

[Josh Rudolph]

When you mentioned a sliding face vice, are you anticipating a sliding leg vise? I've seen a couple of those posted here.

Yes...I am considering adding one.



If you anticipate getting into boat building, then you might want a bench as long as your shop can hold.

I do have a wish list project of a cedar strip canoe which range in size but I think a standard size is around 16'. I am not sure I want a bench that big as 99% of my projects (assuming I don't find a niche in canoe building) would not utilize a bench that large and I am bad about filling horizontal surfaces with junk.

I am really leaning towards something around 12'. It will be large enough to accommodate nearly all projects and not be of the size that it is a pain to walk around. Now knowing how cheap I can be, the bench will likely be 11' something" as I will likely by 12' boards when the time comes. Or maybe buy 16'ers and use the cutoffs for something?

[Ron Brese]

Most that have built the sliding leg vise thought it was a great idea at the time only to find out that it is just not used much at all. The screw limits the height versatility. A good leg vise and a deadman will cover almost all of your needs. When one of the rare moments come up that require being able to clamp to the dead man there is a device sold by Veritas called a "surface clamp" that fits into the holes on the deadman that will provide for this very infrequent need. I think I'd spend that time building a Moxon vise that would have multiple uses and can be used anywhere on the bench. In fact on a bench of that length you could leave the Moxon set up all the time.

Ron

[george wilson]

In an original 18th.C. picture of a cabinet shop,the benches are very long. But,they are making a lot of architectural woodwork from the templets hanging on the wall.

We were given a 16' bench at work. The bench was a very high quality piece of work when made. Shrinkage of the thick maple planks comprising the top had taken its toll. It was made of hard maple 4" x 12"s. We used it to photograph our finished saws and planes on,sometimes laying plywood on the top to accommodate those batches of tools. It got plenty of use in our toolmaker's shop.

The original maker must have been doing long work similar in nature to the Diderot cabinet shop illustration.

[Jim Matthews]

The longer it is, the farther I have to walk around when I drop something off the back.

I could see having a few benches of the same height that could be joined, when the need arose.

Anything larger than 6 feet, and I just keep piling tools in a corner.

[glenn bradley]

I vote for two or three task specific work surfaces. A 10' bench (mine's about 8') a large assembly table with storage for items used in assembly and a large outfeed surface/work area serve me well. Your needs will be different and your preferences will be as well. Enjoy.

[Zach Dillinger]

I wish I had room for a 12 foot bench. House trim and moldings for furniture works better if you make very long pieces and then cut to the lengths you need. My 8 foot bench has been inadequate at times for this type of work.

[Josh Rudolph]

I am 50/50 on having an assembly table, honestly as short as I am (5'4"), the height of my workbench and the height of the assembly table won't differ by much. I have always used my power tool bench for finishing and assembly and only once when I did a set of cabinets was it too high. In that instance I just stood on a small bench. So I am not sure if I want to dedicate the space to an assembly bench or to keeping my recliner!
At this point a 10'er is a given, it's just whether a 12'er will be too much.

[Prashun Patel]

Josh. 12' is certainly not too long. In fact, the additional mass will serve well to stabilize the bench during planing. IMHO, a bench is only too big if you cannot maneuver around it easily.

[Adam Cherubini]

You want your bench as long as your work/stock. If you buy 8-10' lumber, you want an 8-10' bench. If you have more space than that and can build a longer bench, do it. You will find you can use the right end for joinery tasks. I think I'd put another face vise there. If you have crazy space and want an even longer bench, you could incorporate a sharpening area (just don't grind there) or on bench tool storage. The only danger of having a super long bench is that it can end up getting cluttered with half done projects, tools you've been meaning to restore etc and you may find you are left with only 4-6' of clear working space! I have 2 benches and one is cluttered with junk at the moment.

[Andrae Covington]

Most that have built the sliding leg vise thought it was a great idea at the time only to find out that it is just not used much at all...

Really? I guess I've missed those comments. Anyway, I love mine. I use it as much as the fixed leg vise. I often have the parallel guide pins in two different thickness settings in the two vises, and switch back and forth as needed. But the sliding deadman is much simpler, doesn't get in the way when you're not using it, and accomplishes the primary task of holding the other end of long work.

[Jim Koepke]

My current bench is too short at 5'.

If my space allowed, my next bench would be longer than 8'.

A lot does depend on your style of working. If flat spaces tend to be clutter magnets, then a larger space to collect clutter may fall into the category of diminishing returns.

Another consideration is how your tools are stored. If they are easy to get to and return, then you may not want a tool tray built into the bench. If you have storage away from the bench and like to have your tools close at hand, then the tool tray option may be worth considering.

My tendency is to stack the parts of my project either on the bench or on other surfaces. A bigger bench will help me here. Also many times my tasks include planing long boards. Edge jointing on a short bench is not ideal, but can be done. Trying to plane a long board on a short bench is a sure road to frustration.

If my shop could accommodate a 12' bench, walking around it would be a pleasure and good exercise.

If need be, it might be a bit of a chore, but a long bench could be shortened. A bench that is too short is near impossible to make longer in an elegant way.

jtk

[Josh Rudolph]

A lot does depend on your style of working. If flat spaces tend to be clutter magnets, then a larger space to collect clutter may fall into the category of diminishing returns.

Making a much better effort to avoid this and have been doing the rule of 10 which is becoming more habitual (rule of 10 for me is any time I go into the shop, see my rule of 10 reminder, and leave the shop I need to put 10 things back into their place, this has tremendously helped me get better organized and efficient in where I keep things). I optimistically think the bench won't be a clutter magnet.



Another consideration is how your tools are stored. If they are easy to get to and return, then you may not want a tool tray built into the bench. If you have storage away from the bench and like to have your tools close at hand, then the tool tray option may be worth considering.

I have 15 feet of cabinets with a butcher block top that currently has my tools in the drawers and cabinets. The bench will be parallel to this space a few feet away. However I am debating back and forth between a wall hanging cabinet, a mobile hand tool cabinet, or a joiners chest for most of my hand tools. I can't say that I am favoring any over the other at this point.

I guess this will be a topic of discussion later...however feel free to give me your opinions now if you like.



My tendency is to stack the parts of my project either on the bench or on other surfaces. A bigger bench will help me here.

I concur.

[Roy Griggs]

I would agree with those favoring more than one bench; my workbench is 28" x 8', I have a torsion box assembly table that is approx 4' x 6.5' and then I have a large tablesaw with outfeed and side cabinets that is 5' x 8' (drop the blade take the fence off it's a bench). This enables me to have stuff stacked in 3 different places while I'm working on something....else!!!

[Jim Matthews]

I have 2 benches and one is cluttered with junk at the moment.

This may be, in the only way, that I successfully emulate the masters.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I favor both long benches and multiple benches. There is a reason the bench room in my shop is called the bench room. I have a 24" x 90" bench I built 3 years ago for my hand tool work. My old bench has been modified and evolved for use as an assembly bench, finishing bench, and for use in working metal. I also have a 24" x 48" dedicated sharpening bench 3 feet off of one end of my main bench. The final bench is a slightly modified Schwarzesque saw bench which doubles as a seat for workng at the main bench. All of this allows a good bit of versatility.

I will however confess to the standard problem that most woodworkers have. FLAT SURFACES QUICKLY FILL WITH JUNK THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUT AWAY AFTER USE. And yes, I meant to shout.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I echo the cluttered top comments - I was very guilty of a bench that looked like Underhill's does at the end of an episode.

The biggest improvement for me now is having my tool cabinet, and having it where it is - heck, if I'm working at the leg vise, I can put away the dovetail saw and pick up a chisel without moving.

Having he cabinet open and right there makes me much better about putting things away. I'd be worried that if my bench was bigger, I'd end up leaving more tools on it because the cabinet would always be further away if I was working at the "wrong" end of it. Perhaps a longer bench would mean I would need a rolling tool cabinet/chest.

Of course, the points moot for me; my "workroom" isn't even long enough for some of the benchs you folks are talking about!

[Adam Cherubini]

[QUOTE=Joshua Pierce;2008371]I was very guilty of a bench that looked like Underhill's does at the end of an episode.QUOTE]
With or without the blood?

[Zach Dillinger]

[QUOTE=Joshua Pierce;2008371]I was very guilty of a bench that looked like Underhill's does at the end of an episode.QUOTE]
With or without the blood?

Yes.

+10 Characters.

[David Keller NC]

Josh - Here are the cons against a long bench:

Material expense: the longer the bench, the more b.f. of lumber it requires to construct. Benches longer than 10'-11' may require staggered-lamination to construct, depending on how easily you can obtain 14' lumber in the species you want. 14' boards would make a decent 12' bench - you're going to lose the ends during milling. For folks in the Eastern US, this might not be much of an issue where 16' lumber can be obtained in most species.

Maneuverability of the woodworker: Others on this thread have already pointed this out for a bench that is used from all 4 sides - you have to walk more to go to the other side on a long bench. This is a non-issue for most of us that use only 3 sides of a bench (one side's against a wall).

Maneuverability of the bench: The longer the bench, the heavier it is, and the harder it is to pick up one end and move it around. I do this frequently, but my current bench is 6' long, so it's no big deal.

Clutter: Already noted (all horizontal spaces in a workshop tend to fill with junk).

The biggest con: It is extremely unlikely this will be the last bench you build. No bench is perfect, and no bench is suited to all tasks. As your taste, skills, and interests change, you will likely build another bench. Making the first one the "Mother of all Benches" means that you're investing a whole lot of material in time into a bench that just might have to be taken apart and scrapped to make room in your shop for the next bench.

Here are the pros:

Dealing with long stock: Even if you're not a boat-builder, you may need to work on moldings that are 8' - 10' in length. Of course, if you're into building jewelry boxes and other small objects, and aren't considering a highboy or secretary, this may be a non-issue. And shorter benches can still allow you to make moldings 8' - 10' long and longer, you simply have to build a sticking board out of thick stock (mine's 12/4 poplar) that will be self-supporting at the ends where it hangs over the bench.

Lots of Real Estate: Just because you can make do with a shorter bench with less surface area doesn't mean doing so isn't a PITA. It's quite gratifying to be able to suitably clamp a 8' long, 20" wide mahogany board for face-planing by using the installed vises and bench top without having to resort to special jigs.

Multi-purpose top: Long benches with lots of square area support doing two different operations at each end. For hand-tool cabinetmakers, this set-up is frequent because it allows you to size each individual piece to the others as you're cutting and fitting the joints. If you have a short bench without much space, you typically have to clear the whole top in the middle of a joint-cutting operation to allow you to saw and plane the next piece.

[Jim Foster]

I built a Roubo last year, 9' long. Getting to the backside is not a problem since I'm usually on one end or the other. If I could have made it longer 10' would be better, 11' or 12' would be best for me. I'm also lucky, I have a long wall that takes a long bench very nicely. I'm always making a piece of trim or some long thing for the house. Also, since the Roubo is one big clamping surface, it's possible to be set up on both ends for glue-ups and handwork activities, or leaving a saw set up on one end, and hand-planing on the other. I also have lots of long rough boards, a big bench makes it easier to look them over and break them down. Height and width are more important, for me the most important thing about length is "Long.