Buyng a band saw - another question

[Tom Fischer]

Woodcraft is showing the Laguna 14" height 3hp (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2083658/35880/laguna-14-bandsaw-3-hp-leeson-motor-lt14-suv.aspx?refcode=12IN11RL&utm_source=directemail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=11-15-12&utm_campaign=12IN11RL) at $1595, with a free re-saw blade, "Resaw King".
Says the regular price for that blade is $216.
Is that blade really worth that??
Grizz saw blades are in the $20 range

Similar in Grizz is probably 514X2B (http://www.grizzly.com/products/19-3-HP-Extreme-Series-Bandsaw-with-Motor-Brake/G0514X2B)
The grizz has a bigger throat (don't think I care), but only 12" height, 2" less than the laguna (I think I do care about that.)
I want the saw mostly for resaw, rip log lumber.

Thoughts on the Laguna?? Good/Bad??

[Andrew Hughes]

I have found the Rk is great for resaw ing dry wood only.Green wood will kill it fast.Even 2x4 s from the Borg have enough pitch and moisture to dull it.Its a great blade just not much set.Thats been my experience.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tom,

I am not familiar with either Laguna product so I won't comment.

If, however, you are new to bandsaws as I was a few years ago, I would like to recommend a book I find invaluable "The New Complete Guide To The Bandsaw" by Mark Duginske. It is a well written book with excellent detail on setups and very well illustrated. You can buy it at Amazon currently for $13.56.

It even has a chapter on buying a bandsaw and what to look for if you are buying a USED bandsaw. It's an excellent refernce I use regularly.

[Tom Fischer]

Thanks guys
Andrew, that's too bad about the green, was planning on sawing mostly green, and definitely not full dry.
Also, I have always thought you get better results, less checking by cutting green wood (dries by side grain, not end grain)
Are you saying just go with the standard $20 saw blades?

Ken, I put that book in the Amazon shopping cart.Thanks
I do have a "baby" bandsaw - Delta Homecraft. I think it is 6"
Like this http://www.old-woodworking-tools.net/delta-homecraft-band-saw.html
Bought it probably 35 years ago, garage sale (I was just a little snip)
Want a real band saw in this life.

More comments on the grizz versus anything else?
thanks!

[Tom Esh]

...Is that blade really worth that??
Grizz saw blades are in the $20 range...

That's because the Resaw King is a carbide tooth blade and given the large number of teeth on a BS blade they're pricey. As you might expect, they hold their edge a lot longer than steel and can produce a really smooth cut, though the kerf is wider. IMO the payoff isn't as great as with a carbide circ saw blades because the steel band material has to flex and is subject to eventual fatigue failure just like any other BS blade.

[Jeff Monson]

I just looked at the Laguna 14" at a Woodcraft store a few weeks ago. I'll have to say its a really nice saw for a 14". I hear a lot of great things about the resaw king blade also, and yes they are $200.00. As stated above this is a carbide tipped blade so it can be resharpened and will hold an edge longer.

[Prashun Patel]

Can't vouch for the Laguna, but I do own a Grizzly 514x2. It's not clear to me whether its 19" wheels are better than the Laguna's 14" ones, but this has to at least mean the Griz has a bigger footprint. It's big throat/table, and stability make it feel safe when muscling large pieces on it.

I like the beefiness of the Griz. It's done everything I've asked from resawing 12" slabs to cutting 12" thick, green logs.

You might send a PM to Van Huskey. He's been missing recently around these parts, but he has strong opinions about b-saws and seems familiar with a surprising number of models.

I will say that I tend to switch between blades. Given that, I prefer to have two or three good steel blades instead of one carbide blade. In fact, for 200, you can probably get 10 quality steel blades.

[Andrew Hughes]

I am really not sure about the best blade for resawing green wood.I do know that the blade needs more set than usual. Or the dust packs around the blade and fills the kerf.I have been sawing cypress all week on my Saw its not fully dry and I have using wood master blade that's carbide tipped.The dust is hot on the tall resaws and I should get a different blade.But it's all I got right now.
I have used resaw king blades they are nice.They work on the smaller wheels because the band is thin maybe .025 or something. Hope this helps. Andrew

[Myk Rian]

I do have a "baby" bandsaw - Delta Homecraft. I think it is 6"
That would be a 10" saw. That particular one is pretty hefty for that size.

I use a 1/2" 3-4tpi blade for all my re-sawing on my 1966 Delta 14". Timberwolf blades are reasonably priced at Woofcraft.

[Christopher Charles]

I've an Ag B-18 which came with a 1" carbide blade I use only for cutting veneer. Would not bother with a carbide blade except for veneer work. Otherwise, its 1/2 3 tpi bimetal blades (~$60 ea.), which i've found to last much longer than woodslicer or similar. I have no experience with the Laguna, but would be wary of a 14" machine if you plan to do heavy milling frequently. I certainly wouldn't base your decision on the free blade--you'll have your saw much longer than the blade...

Good luck!

[Guy Belleman]

Both bandsaws come with a 3HP motor, but the 19" wheels on the Grizzly should provide a lot more torque and momentum, making cutting easier. I have the 17" G0513X and love it. I will never go back to a 14", no matter how pretty it is, and the Laguna is certainly that. Years ago, I drooled when looking at the Laguna LT16. Get the Grizzly and you won't look back.

As for a blade to cut green wood, that is tough. Think I agree with the 1/2" to 3/4" 3tpi bimetal blades. I love the woodslicer blades, but they would probably gum up quickly on green wood.

Good luck.

[Tom Fischer]

Correct, that is a 10". Was typing faster than I was thinking.
And I think the wheels are cast iron.
It's still a decent saw, but very small.

[Tom Fischer]

"but the 19" wheels on the Grizzly should provide a lot more torque and momentum"

Hadn't thought much about that, but that probably makes the deal. Thanks also to Prashun for pointing that out.
I bought a three point hitch chipper shredder a few years ago, the marketing stuff talked a lot about the weight of the flywheel.
It is very important.

[Jake Helmboldt]

In the past there have been comments about cabide tipped blades not being suitable to a 14" saw due to the excessive flex resulting from the smaller wheel diameter. I don't whether that still holds, but is something to consider as well. The blade manufacturers would be the best authorities on that issue. The bigger throat is always welcome if you will be doing curved cuts on any larger pieces. Nothing worse than getting part way through a cut and realizing you can't swing the work piece due to insufficient depth.

[John Coloccia]

I have a 514X2 and am familiar with the Laguna at Woodcraft. The 514 would be my first choice. Actually, a MiniMax MM16 would be my first choice...lol...but other than that, the 514 is a nice bandsaw. I run a Resaw King on mine. I had significant problems getting working blades, but now that I do I am incredibly impressed with the finish. If you feed consistently, you will get a finish BETTER than straight out of a planer, and that's not an exaggeration. It basically cuts almost like a table saw.

[Stephen Cherry]

I'm cutting up some 12/4+ walnut right now with my 24 aggazzani, and it really makes me think that "size does matter". For ripping logs, I would consider something way bigger than 14 inch. And if you are ready to pay 1600 dollars, there are plenty of used beasts out there that are well within your budget. I paid somewhat more for my saw, which included a bunch of blades, but it was a creampuff, and I paid a corresponding price. If you are willing to deal with a little hassle of hunting one up, there are deals to be had, and plenty of them. It does take patience though. I think that auctions are the way to go.

Or, my favorite budget saw, which is pretty scarce, the bridgewood pbs 540 (about 21 inch). My target price would be 1000 dollars, which is a great deal for a great saw. I have seen them for that kind of money, and they are out there.

In my opinion, the bandsaw is the one machine to go overboard on. A good bandsaw really is a pleasure to run.

[Myk Rian]

In the past there have been comments about cabide tipped blades not being suitable to a 14" saw due to the excessive flex resulting from the smaller wheel diameter.
I think it's more a question of will it tension a carbide blade.

[Tom Fischer]

Thanks for that Stephen.
Didn't mention in my post that my absolute max height is 81.5 inches.
I'm a newbie to the serious bandsaw market,
Seems a band saw with a "24" model number is probably above that limit.

[Stephen Cherry]

Thanks for that Stephen.
Didn't mention in my post that my absolute max height is 81.5 inches.
I'm a newbie to the serious bandsaw market,
Seems a band saw with a "24" model number is probably above that limit.

It's about 84 inches. Do you really want to do "logs"? If you can only have one good bandsaw, I would want it to do everything.

My guess is that one of the older Italian saws would be right up your alley (made before the super high resaw machines). As I mentioned, I like the bridgewood pbs. They were brought in by a company that normally sold Taiwanese machines, so most people don't think of them as premium machines. And, as I recall, they are not super tall. A few years ago, I almost bought one, but it didn't quite work out. I just had a quick look, but it seemed on par with the Aggazzani. Same guides, etc.

Or a used older minimax or laguna? (before they got too tall) It seems to me that you cant loose with something like an 18+ Italian saw. If it doesn't work out for your needs, there will always be somebody willing to pay about what you would.

[Stephen Cherry]

something like this:
http://providence.craigslist.org/tls/3275103979.html

If I needed a saw, I would be loading up on Dorittos and mountain dew right now.

[David Kumm]

Bridgewood imported bandsaws from ACM. Same as Felder but had a well designed neck so it was a stout saw. Laguna gray saws were ACM in the late 90s and early 2000s. The 540 series is a nice compromise and should tension carbide up to 3/4". The RK has a thinner band so you can go wider with them. The ACM 440,540,640, etc series were the heavier, the 400,500,600 were the lighter duty. Used saws of that size can be had for your budget or less although you might have to add 300 or so for a vfd as many are three phase. Older saws had less resaw height so they were shorter. An old Oliver 217 30" cast iron saw will fit under 81" except for a 2x3" guard for the blade that sticks up . Centauro is another manufacturer of quality saws that can be found used. Keep in mind that a larger table is also handy and frame strength is what it is all about when resawing, green or dry. Dave

[Curt Harms]

Thanks guys
Andrew, that's too bad about the green, was planning on sawing mostly green, and definitely not full dry.
Also, I have always thought you get better results, less checking by cutting green wood (dries by side grain, not end grain)
Are you saying just go with the standard $20 saw blades?
<snip>


For green wood I would talk to a band saw blade vendor. I know there are blades recommended specifically for green wood. I think they have lots of set so a wider kerf and rougher but room enough for sticky stringy sawdust to exit easily. Timberwolf sells some, Highland woodworking has a 3/8" blade marketed to turners that is supposed to work well with wetter wood. Iturra and woodcraftbands.com would likely be worth talking to and I'm sure there are others.

[Tom Fischer]

Seems Grizz is the way for me to go.
1) What is the difference between the motor brake and the foot brake?
The 514 single phase saw on their web site (http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/420000) has four different prices $1325 - $1595
I did call Grizzley a few weeks ago and ask about the range of features. The very kind woman at the other end of the phone tried to explain.
I have no idea what she said.
Either I am dense, or she has never flipped the switch on one of these machines.
But as I said, she was very kind.
Any help on this?

2) do they ever have sales?
3) when is their next price increase

Pretty much everything that I have bought in the past several years with iron in it goes up in price on a regular basis.
Seems this saw would be included.

thanks!

[John Coloccia]

Seems Grizz is the way for me to go.
1) What is the difference between the motor brake and the foot brake?
The 514 single phase saw on their web site (http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/420000) has four different prices $1325 - $1595
I did call Grizzley a few weeks ago and ask about the range of features. The very kind woman at the other end of the phone tried to explain.
I have no idea what she said.
Either I am dense, or she has never flipped the switch on one of these machines.
But as I said, she was very kind.
Any help on this?

2) do they ever have sales?
3) when is their next price increase

Pretty much everything that I have bought in the past several years with iron in it goes up in price on a regular basis.
Seems this saw would be included.

thanks!

Their specs are extremely confusing, IMHO...there's no reason to have so many different options. Hopefully Shiraz will chime in and correct me if I have this wrong (though I haven't seen him in a LONG time), but here goes.

In the 514 lineup, a "B" means "motor brake" (electronic brake). The "F" means "foot brake", i.e. mechanical brake. Now here's the confusing part....all of the 514's, except lowest end one, has a brake. The X2 has a foot brake. Only the 514 doesn't. Confused yet? If you look on the comparison sheet, it says that the X2 DOESN'T come with rack and pinion adjust, but my X2 did and the product page for the X2 says that it does.

Anyhow, be absolutely sure that whatever model you get has the rack and pinion adjustment, and not the low end one built into the trunion (like some of their other saws) but the heavy duty outboard one. It make the entire table amazingly stiff.

[David Kumm]

Electronic brakes- of the DC injection variety- will fail and limit the number of times per hour you can stop the blade without overtaxing them. I'd stay with the friction foot brake. The brake is way less important than frame strength though. Every company should be able to answer questions about the thickness of the steel and the way it is folded and built to add to strength to handle blade tension. If you can't get those answers, talk to someone else. Dave

[David Peebles 1]

No one has mentioned the Hitachi CB75F. I have only seen one in the flesh, so to speak, and you rarely see one for sale. A guy in Portland OR is offering one on CL. The link on the tool list says $1500, but his post says $1800 "firm." He claims the saw new is around $3000. They have a 3 inch blade, and I assume are intended solely for resawing. Throat capacity (per his ad) is a little over 14", while height is limited to 11 13/16". It must be a very stiffly constructed saw to be able to tension a 3" wide blade. I'd be interested, but can't drop that kind of money right now (but maybe if I sell my old cast iron Grizzly 18"?)