I don't think I'm meant to ever sharpen....

[Victor Robinson]

...a card scraper.

I'm a power tool guy, but I've been learning about and acquiring hand tools. I learned how to sharpen my plane irons and chisels to shave my arms and give a glass smooth finish with the wispiest of shavings. I've acquired several beautiful planes that are well-tuned and a joy to use. I can even see myself preferring hand tools over power tools and sanding for many projects, and perhaps even one day rehabbing an old plane or two.

But for the life of me, I cannot sharpen a friggin' card scraper. I've watched and tried to emulate almost every single video out there. I've tried it a million times. I have a decent burnisher (Crown), a mill file, waterstones, and have made several jigs to help with the process. At best I get shavings for a few strokes and then it's dust by stroke 5, meaning the burr is too fragile. But most of the time I just get dust. I'm certain that I'm able get a nice sharp and square edge on the scraper, so obviously my problems stem from either inadequately drawing out the steel or screwing up turning the hook.

It's disappointing because sharpening a stupid scraper is probably the one hand tool skill I've actually been trying to learn for the longest time (probably two years!!). But now that I have an increased interest in hand tools, a scraper becomes all the more important to take that glass smooth finish from a smoothing plane and get rid of the last few imperfections before finish.

I'm not even looking for tips or advice at this point, maybe just a shoulder to cry on. I've literally read every word and watched every video on the subject and just can't get it. Maybe I'm never meant to!

[Carl Beckett]

Hang in there Victor! You will get some great insights here

Have you ever tried it without the hook? Sometimes this is enough.

Any chance you can get a video of technique?

[Chris Griggs]

My dirty little secret. I suck at sharpening card scrapers. I get it right more often than I used too, but there are still (frequent) times that it I cannot for the life of me get a good hook and I need go back and the joint the scraper again. Like you, I followed all the video and read everything. What I am starting to conclude is that when I can't get a good hook, the problem as little to nothing to do with the actually turning of the hook and everything to do with the fact that I somehow screwed up the jointing or honing and likely rounded over an edge. I think this is why rejointing usually fixes the problem.

I will say that I think part of my card scraper incompetence has to do with the fact that I don't use them much for finishing work (or much period), so I have a tendency to get better at it for short periods of time, than not need to sharpen them for along time, so I suck at it again.

[David Weaver]

Victor, keep trying. You're literally a few successful chances away from repeated success.

Check your burnisher and make sure that it is dead smooth, so that it's not damaging the edge of the scraper. Reset the edge of the scraper fresh (with a jig if you need to to keep it square) and give it another good shot.

If it doesn't seem like anything is happening, add pressure. If you roll a big burr that causes you to have to hold the scraper too far forward to get it to bite, you're only one step away from rolling a perfect edge.

[george wilson]

Maybe your scraper's steel isn't good enough. What brand of scraper are you using? Not that I'd know the brand anyway. I have made my own scrapers since the 50's. OLD saw blades make good scrapers. The best are made from 1095 spring tempered blue steel shim stock,like the best small saw makers now use. I did use old saws for scrapers many years ago,though.

When I was teaching shop,I got hold of several feet of large bandsaw blade from a local saw mill. It was made from L6 (not the greatest steel,but it was o.k..) I'd clamp the steel in a metal vise,and cut it with a sharp cold chisel. I held the chisel at an angle so 1 corner would cut,and hammered it along,cracking the saw blade ahead of the chisel exactly flush with the top edge of the vise's jaws. Then,I taught my students how to sharpen their scrapers. The only burnisher we had was a GOOD Proto screwdriver. The shaft was quite hard,and would burnish without galling on the blade. The kids really got excited by the chips they could raise with those scrapers!! We made the work benches. I can tell you,those kids did not drill holes in them or abuse them since they had made them!! The shop had hardly any money,and we made many of our things.

[Casey Gooding]

I have the same issue. For years I have been unsuccessful at getting any of my scrapers to function consistently. When I do get a good burr, it stops working after a few strokes just like Victor describes. It's incredibly frustrating. Especially when I consider my sharpening skills on all other hand tools to be quite decent.

[george wilson]

For a larger burr,try sharpening your scraper at a 45 degree angle,and putting just 1 burr on the acute side.Maybe that will help. Sometimes scrapers are sharpened that way. I have some very thin violin scrapers I have to sharpen that way,as they are only .010" thick.

[paul cottingham]

I eventually gave up on scrapers, and bought the LV no.80 style scraping "plane." Pretty easy to sharpen, easy to use, and no combusting my thumbs, either.

[Ryan Griffey]

Victor,

What brand of scraper are you using? Some are harder to sharpen than others.

I also suggest using a wood that scrapes and or planes well to test for sharpness. A piece of scrap walnut/cherry. Use the same piece of wood each time until you get it right.

Stop watching the videos and figure out what works for you. Depending on the amount of pressure you use to turn the burr can dramatically change the number of strokes it takes to work out the steel.

Until you get better at it don't roll the hook angle down too far. Also use a small amount of oil on your burnisher. I use my plane rag.

[Mel Fulks]

I have an old Stanley burnisher that I struggled with before I realized it was too soft and galled. Now use one of those solid carbide 1/4 inch laminate trim bits glued in a groove in the middle of a handle.Much better. It's exasperating to find that a one use tool is just no good .

[Harold Burrell]

Oh, man...I thought I was the only one...:o

Maybe we could start some kind of support group or something for us Card Scraperly Challenged.

Anyway...what I ended up doing was getting this: http://www.woodsmithstore.com/cabinetscraper.html . I JUST got it this week and have yet to try it out. I'll let you know how it works.

[Rick McQuay]

Don't feel bad. I can sharpen a chisel or plane iron so it shaves better than my razor but have never been able to raise a burr either. Maybe I should buy different scrapers and try again.

[Mike Siemsen]

To avoid assumptions here is the drill. File edge straight and square, if you look at the edge in good light it appears as a bright clean rectangle with no jagged edges. Polish the edge square on a fine stone, use a guide to keep your self square and move the scraper around on the stone so you don't put a groove in the stone. Polish the face of the scraper flat on the stone as well, at least at the edge. Burnish both faces at the edge, about a 2 degree angle is enough, burnish the edge, again about a 2 degree angle is enough. Most problems with card scrapers are caused by being ham fisted, use a light touch. Pine doesn't scrape well, so try it on a decent hard wood, the edge doesn't last a long time, it should take shavings, not dust. there are 4 edges to use up, you can usually burnish at least 1 more time before sharpening again. I use a carbide burnisher but any hard steel rod will work, you can feel a drag if it is galling, use a bit of lube and it should be fine. The oils at the side of your nose work fine. Start with the scraper at about 90 degrees to the wood and push forward tilting the card until you feel it catch. Have crying towel handy. Find someone that knows how and they will show you in about 5 minutes.
Mike

[Curt Putnam]

I have a crown burnisher and it galled the 1st time I used it. Good scrapers are noticeably different from the not-good ones. I think most of my problem has been pressure - remember the buttering bread thing. The other has been angle - the Veritas Variable Burnisher solved that for me. I'm getting there - sort of.

[jamie shard]

There is lots of advice out there and who know which one will make it "click" for you. I found this video to be the most instructive:

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/scraper-sharpening-w-william-ng/

William does a really good job explaining that a sharp corner is really what is needed --- and a tiny burr is just there to help. Getting a sharp corner requires just as much attention as a sharp plane blade -- it needs to be square and polished.

[Mel Fulks]

There does seem to be more of a "knack" thing with scrapers. I posted before about a highly skilled cabinetmaker who had worked with a lowly drunken helper who was world class with scrapers. My friend humbly took scraper lessons from the helper ,but was never his equal. My friend told me about that many times and always got agitated and worked up about it. " he couldn't make anything ! But damn, he could sharpen scrapers!

[Zach Dillinger]

Just do what I do. Use broken glass as a scraper. You never have to sharpen it. You just need to be a little careful.

[Charles Bjorgen]

Similar set of experience with card scrapers here. I've spent countless time watch online videos on this subject and have gone through the process many times. End result is that I cannot achieve the nice shavings that generally show on the videos. My scrapers are an original Swedish package bought several years ago and some somewhat thinner scrapers bought from a for sale post over on WoodNet. I'll have to admit, however, that even without getting the shavings, I still see an improvement on the surfaces that I've scraped. Not always, but many times. Maybe I am doing something right.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The thing that made it "click" for me was realizing how little pressure I needed to turn a hook. I had problems continually until I learned to let up while trying to turn the hook.

[Victor Robinson]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice, everyone. I'm glad, and a little surprised, to know I'm not the only one. It's not easy being outcasted to the fringes of the woodworking world, where we hunker in the corners and madly play with the scraper shavings of others.

I'm using scrapers from Lee Valley, so I think the scraper itself should be fine. I am going to have another sharpening fiesta tonight and take all the advice you've given me into account. One thing I will do this time is to file down the scraper quite a bit - perhaps I have work-hardened too much of the same scraper with these repeated sharpening attempts. I'll also lube up the burnisher (something I hadn't been doing), and use a light touch. Clear my mind, refocus...we'll see.

[Victor Robinson]

I eventually gave up on scrapers, and bought the LV no.80 style scraping "plane." Pretty easy to sharpen, easy to use, and no combusting my thumbs, either.

Paul, I was looking at that fella. But isn't the blade basically like a card scraper (meaning you have to sharpen and burnish in the same way)?

[Zach Dillinger]

The Four Noble Truths of Woodworking Scrapers:

1) Woodworking Suffering exists
2) The Cause of Woodworking Suffering is using scrapers
3) You can end your Woodworking Suffering
4) The path to the end of your Woodworking Suffering is to not use scrapers at all, but broken glass.

What is the sound of no scraper scraping?

[Victor Robinson]

The Four Noble Truths of Woodworking Scrapers:

1) Woodworking Suffering exists
2) The Cause of Woodworking Suffering is using scrapers
3) You can end your Woodworking Suffering
4) The path to the end of your Woodworking Suffering is to not use scrapers at all, but broken glass.

What is the sound of no scraper scraping?


LOL.

Well Zach, not all of us have shards of glass at the ready! :p Although if there was a window in my shop I'd have punched it out already from...Woodworking Suffering.

[Gabe Shackle]

That's a great video! I don't think I've seen the entire process shown as clearly as that in any others I've watched.

[David Weaver]

Nobody has made an obsidian plane blade joke yet.

The longer this thread goes, the more i'm convinced it's an equipment issue for most people. Hard or soft pressure, I have always gotten a burr.

As long as the edge is clean enough that it doesn't tear under the burnish, and as long as the burnisher is hard enough that it isn't galled by the scraper (which I don't think is a given).

Most people here probably have a carbide drill bit they could experiment with to roll an edge if they are not sure. And to the extent they have a metalworking vise to put the scraper in (with soft jaws), that's better, too, it'll let you focus on what you're doing.

I usually oil the edge just with whatever oil is on my forehead or around my nose. I use my finger to put it on the blade....please don't read that as me suggesting you take a scraper with a big hairy burr and rub it briskly on your forehead. You could end up looking like you had a match with abdullah the butcher.

[george wilson]

A burnisher does need to be HARD. You could make one by grinding the teeth off of an OLD USA Nicholson triangular file. You would need to polish the burnisher smooth,though. Mine is an antique oval Stanley. Easily picked up in flea markets,at least before the internet and Ebay.

You can buy round carbide rod from MSC,McMaster Carr,Enco,etc.. Blank HSS drills (just drill length dowels) would make a good scraper. The carbide would be best,but might cost money in larger sizes (like 1/4") Check catalogs. Ax brittle as carbide is,I'd either get a decent diameter,or make the burnisher rather short. Does LV sell a short carbide burnisher?

[David Weaver]

They sell a small one that their listing says is for curved scrapers, and it's very inexpensive.

I have a crown burnisher that is HSS that literally was gouged by LN's scrapers (which aren't that hard). It just isnt properly heat treated right near the tang, which is where it's nice to use. further out, it's harder. I should probably take it apart and cut it down so the middle is closer to the tang.

How does one polish carbide, diamonds in a buffer? I have never been a fan of what scraping does to a planed surface, but nobody would notice other than another woodworker, and even then they would probably think we're idiots for not sanding. To the extent that the wood is hard, the scraper edge is polished nicely and the burnisher is polished nicely, the dullness is minimized.

I see comments from some on here also that their scraper doesn't hold an edge well. Generally even if you roll a nice burr, they will go dull quickly compared to plane iron, and you have to move to different sections. If you get a minute or two of work out of the bottom edge of a card scraper, I think that's pretty good. You can just do both sides and the top and use the same scraper for quite a while. The only scraper blades that I have seen that hold an edge for a long time are the A2 scraper blades that go in LN and LV's scraper planes. When you roll a burr on one of those, they will go for a long time, and they will leave a nice shiny surface. They're just a PITA to use if you scrape wood that has moved a little bit since it was finish planed.

[Mel Fulks]

The carbide router bit I used to make my burnisher is a 1/4 inch one shot deal commonly thrown away in shops using plastic laminate. The carbide rod commonly provided in the scraper gizmos is, I think , also 1/4. With Sherlock Holmes like skill I have figured out that George doesn't do much laminate work! An old guy I once worked with would only use the agate burnishers sold for gold leaf.

[lowell holmes]

3 in 1 oil is a good lubricant.

Lie Nielsen makes a good card scraper.

I sharpen mine on diamond hones and burnish with LV burnisher.

[Russell Sansom]

1. This might be heresy, but are you sure you are using the scraper correctly? Not mentioned anywhere here. That is, you form it into a "bow" by pushing out the middle while you scrape?

2. I may have missed this in your explanation of your problems, but do you know exactly what's WRONG with your edge? If you don't know, then it will be hard to rectify it. If you look at it under high magnification and you should be able to see immediately where it has gone astray. Again I didn't catch the specific shortcoming in your post, but I may not have been attentive enough. This might seem like a silly suggestion, but it's the answer to many sharpening quandaries. I've also found that it is difficult at times for some people to force themselves to do it. Human nature, perhaps. My sharpening went from hit-and-miss to outstanding once I had a clear idea of precisely how it missed.

[Bill Bukovec]

Fine Woodworking had a good article a few months ago.

You cut a slot in a piece of wood, then use the wood to clamp the scraper.

I tried the method, and I was impressed with the results.

Bill

[bridger berdel]

one thing i've come to realize is that there is a definite curve of diminishing returns to stoning a card scraper at finer grits. try this- put the card in the vise, edge up with about 1/2" sticking up. square it up with a fine single cut file. now shift the card up so it has about 2 inches sticking up. oil your burnisher and lay it alongside the card, sticking straight up. tilt a couple of degrees and burnish with plenty of pressure, pushing the burr the wrong way, off of the end of the card. plenty of pressure means that the card will flex considerably. repeat on the other side. now drop the card back down so that it is sticking out 1/2" again and burnish the "right" way, pushing the burr back out over the edge. repeat for the other side. test on wood.

I generally stone the edge with a 600 grit diamond stone, in the vise, used just like the file.I also stone the faces. I don't think I'd want to use a soft stone like a waterstone on a card scraper.

[Victor Robinson]

Gentlemen,

An update: success!

I actually didn't do anything differently than what I was doing before other than spend more time filing. I think I had work-hardened the edges and not restored them fully, which is why I was getting less and less successful as time went on.

The rest of the process is the same as I had come to do before - polish the edges on 1000/6000 waterstone using a jig similar to the one Mike Pekovich describes in the FWW article/video Bill mentioned in Post #31. I actually turned the hook holding the scraper in my hand and taking two swipes on each corner. Voila, four edges that are producing wispy shavings on hard maple. It was just as simple as I had been using the same scraper over and over in my efforts and didn't file it down enough to get rid of the work-hardened steel. I feel vindicated.

But even with this elation comes some disappointment. The scraped surface, which I was expecting to be the grand-daddy of all surfaces, is actually NOT as nice as the glass-smooth, reflective surfaces from my hand planes (which I would equate to ~800 sanding). I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a nice surface that would be ready for finish (probably 220 equivalent), but it feels like a step down to scrape after hand planing. Uh, what gives?

[Chris Griggs]

A scraper will remove tearout where a plane might struggle, but a plane will generally leave a glassier surface. Of course, the difference in results depends very much on the wood being worked, but w generally speaking, what you experience is just the nature of scraped vs handplaned surface. Glad you are having success!

[george wilson]

True,a scraped surface will look extremely scratchy if you try staining it. A sharp plane will leave a smoother surface if you don't get tearout. I have made 18th.C. style furniture left with just planed surfaces under varnish.

[Victor Robinson]

My conclusion is this: people overuse the term "glass-smooth" and need to reserve it for surfaces that show reflections. :p

[Jim Matthews]

Mike Pekovich showed me this technique (http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=34742), learned from Brian Boggs.

It involves making a wooden block with a slot to hold the scraper.
I hold the block in a large Jorgensen handscrew, for most operations.

The block acts as both a clamp, flattening caul and reference surface for all operations.

It is important to note that filing is an essential step to remove the work hardened edge made by burnishing.

Mike demonstrated the amount of force in burnishing, it's about the same required to spread peanut butter.

The area under the round burnisher is very small, you're concentrating a great deal of force.

Remember - if you don't file off the hardened edge - burnishing is ineffective.
I can tell when I've filed down to the base steel as the file "glides".

Before that, the file "drags".

[Harold Burrell]

Mike Pekovich showed me this technique (http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=34742), learned from Brian Boggs.

It involves making a wooden block with a slot to hold the scraper.
I hold the block in a large Jorgensen handscrew, for most operations.

The block acts as both a clamp, flattening caul and reference surface for all operations.

It is important to note that filing is an essential step to remove the work hardened edge made by burnishing.

Mike demonstrated the amount of force in burnishing, it's about the same required to spread peanut butter.

The area under the round burnisher is very small, you're concentrating a great deal of force.

Remember - if you don't file off the hardened edge - burnishing is ineffective.
I can tell when I've filed down to the base steel as the file "glides".

Before that, the file "drags".

I really appreciate your insights here. It actually is starting to all make sense!

"Mike demonstrated the amount of force in burnishing, it's about the same required to spread peanut butter."

Wow...have I been doing THAT wrong! The force I have been using is closer to that used to bend a 16 penny nail!

[bridger berdel]

I use considerable force also, especially when I want an agressive hook, say for rough work. For finer work, a slighter hook is had with a lighter touch on the burnisher. sometimes I'll even go with no hook, using the card right off of the stone.

[Jim Matthews]

If considerable force is required, you're likely attempting to deform the work hardened section of steel.

When my Sandvik scraper is properly filed and jointed, very little pressure is needed.

Here's another video that demonstrates the essential filing to get the scraper squared up.
After polishing with a diamond stone, the presenter raises a little steel at around 4:40 in the video.

That's about the same amount of force I use.

If it takes more that this, I file off a sliver of steel.

[Christian Thompson]

I tried sharpening my scraper the other day and failed miserably. I've been working on it and this thread has been a huge help so thanks to all that have contributed. I think my problem was trying to get a big burr. I tried yesterday with two light swipes with the burnisher and can't feel much of a burr at all. I looked at the edge with a 40x microscope, though, and there is definitely a hook and it is nice and straight. When I had a big burr, the edge looked ragged. I'm guessing this was acting more as a file (like William Ng says in the video posted on the first page of this thread) and I was getting mostly dust with a few very small shavings thrown in. With the straight edge, I get a lot of medium sized shavings. I'm still not getting huge ones like William Ng gets in the video, but it is progress...

Does anyone know of an image of what a scraper should look like under magnification? I did a quick search and didn't find anything. If not, does my description sound right?

[Jim Matthews]

You do know that the demonstrations often involve a piece of wood selected to show the desired effect?

If you can get even a wispy curl, as opposed to sawdust, you're on the right track.
I've used a card scraper to great effect on the Devil's own hardwood (Angelim Pedra) and it spat out small shavings.

This was a tremndous improvement over what my best handplane could do.

You won't always get a continuous shaving - the finished surface is what you're after.

[Christian Thompson]

Thanks for the confirmation. I was hoping it was the wood he was using vs. my ineptitude (probably a bit of both :)). I am using striped African Mahogany which is giving me a lot of pain - hence my need to break out the card scraper. The finished surface even with the shavings wasn't all that great, but better than all the tearout I was getting with my smoother. I ended up putting a back bevel on the smoother and it seems to work better. I'm hoping between the scraper and the high angle smoother I can at least get to a point where I can finish up with sandpaper and get a decent finish.

[jon amick]

this video is the one that finally taught me how to do it. it works for me. good luck.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/scraper-sharpening-w-william-ng/?category_name=techniques

[Dale Cruea]

Great thread.
I have been working on my scrapers off and on for about 2 years with some luck sometimes. Other times no luck at all.
I think now I see what I have been doing wrong most of the time.
I will have to try some of this stuff tomorrow after the family leaves and I am not so bloated from the turkey.

[Victor Robinson]

Great thread.
I have been working on my scrapers off and on for about 2 years with some luck sometimes. Other times no luck at all.
I think now I see what I have been doing wrong most of the time.
I will have to try some of this stuff tomorrow after the family leaves and I am not so bloated from the turkey.

For me it was the filing...