Raised panel door mitered corners

[Randy Rizzo]

I'm going to take a whack at making some raised panel doors mitering rails and stiles. What, if anything do you guys use to clamp the door while glue is drying. I'm looking at using some type of picture frame miter clamp. Will that be satisfactory for this purpose? I had also planned on putting a biscuit in the miter. Yer thoughts?

[Lee Schierer]

Normally, miter joints are not used for panel doors. Most of the time doors are made with rails and stiles using either lap joints or cope and stick joints. When I clamp up doors I use bar type clamps. In my case they are pipe clamps. I make sure the parts are cut square and then check the assembly with a square once the glue is applies and the joints clamped before teh glue sets up.

The problem with typical miter corner clamps is they only hold things in place, they do not apply clamping pressure to the joint needed to get a tight joint and a thin glue line, which produces the strength. This type of clamp will help pull the joints together.245563

[Frank Drew]

Randy,

Mortise and tenon joinery can't be beat for strength, but you do sometimes see mitered door construction in European furniture, and I like the look. As you mention, reinforcement is essential since the glue face of a mitered joint is half end grain (not so strong).

[Lucas G Hager]

You consider splines. I want to do the same, but I haven't decided how to reinforce the joints either. I'm leaning toward splines.

[John TenEyck]

I built these mitered corner, raised panel doors about 3 years ago.
245586
I used two biscuits in each corner. I snugged them tight during glue up with 4 Bessey clamps, using their corner blocks. You also could use Dominos, dowels, or loose tenons.

John

[johnny means]

Normally, miter joints are not used for panel doors. 245563

Actually, Miter framed doors are quite common in modern cabinetry. Many frame profiles can only be used with mitered corners. Mitering makes beaded face frames quick and easy and allows for pillowed profiles.


I use Dominoes for the joints on mine. Any loose tenon technique would do. I made my Domino into a sort of slot mortiser for making mitered frames.245583245584245585

Clamping can be done with four clamps, two going N-S and two going E-W. You just have to be sure to regulate clamping pressure so as to close all joints evenly.

One nice thing is that mitered frames take all the calculations out of door sizing. Just cut every rail and stile to finish door size and assemble.

[Curt Harms]

The other thing you can do is make a sort of hybrid half lap/miter. I'm sure the joint has a name but i don't know it. Instead of cutting the half laps square, cut them at a 45 degree angle. You get the mitered appearance but most of the strength of a half lap and most of the glue surface is face to face grain, very little end grain. I did find it a lot slower than cope & stick or loose tenon though.

[Randy Rizzo]

Thanks, guys. I have made quite a few doors using the traditional stick and cope profile cutters. They turned out just fine, my only objection was you see the end grain on the stiles. Not a problem on cabinets mounted high enough so you don't see the top or bottom of the door. We did a kitchen remodel on our former home using commercial cabinets and the doors were mitered, I liked the look. John TenEyck, you mentioned using two biscuits in the miter, what size? Or did you stack them? Stacking doesn't sound doable, but? John Means, nice setup with the Domino! Wish I had one!! I'm going to get a clamp, the one Lee suggested and mock up a door with biscuits in the miter and see how it goes.

[Jeff Duncan]

As mentioned mitered doors are becoming much more common these days. I think it's b/c of the equipment now available to do the somewhat complicated joints now used. Having said that they still suffer from the same disadvantage they always have when making them out of solid wood. When the wood shrinks or expends it can cause the joints to open, which IMHO is far more unsightly than seeing end grain on typical S&R doors:eek:

If your going to try the biscuits I'd probably run them double also. Set the jointer so you can run a biscuit in from the top and then flip the piece and run another from the bottom leaving sufficient material between them. The tenons would offer significantly more strength though so may be worth some investigation into low entry cost options?

good luck,
JeffD

[Chip Lindley]

Although mitered frames can add a nice detail to doors and drawers when well done, I am forced to be reminded of commercial cabinetry, which lends itself to CNC machining. The mitered corners omit the need for cope and stick joinery, and cuts steps from the manufacturing process. I prefer to stay with cope and stick, since it seems to come at a premium now, and I worked so hard to acquire my collection of Freud and Freeborn cabinet cutters. Just my .02! It is still a Free Country, (I think!)
~~Chip~~

[Sam Murdoch]

Sorry to say Randy but I think without tenons or half laps these doors will fail. The biscuit is just not enough in a typical 3/4" to 13/16" thick door with a 2-1/4" to 2-/2" wide rail and stile. Using soft close hinges will help to make them last but any slamming closed of this style cabinet door with a floating raised panel will eventually crack some of the joints. You might get lucky and succeed in creating perfectly glued joints but I would not dare build such a door except for myself - as an experiment.

[Mel Fulks]

Randy ,it's interesting how perceptions of such things as end grain change over time. In earlier times it was standard practice to avoid it on the better stuff, but I'm not sure how much that ever applied to stile ends. It is a modern thing to use those thick overlay doors rather than inset or lipped. The shadow caused by the door sticking out IMO is a bigger concern than the little bit of end grain.

[Rick McQuay]

At least one cabinet manufacturer, I can't remember which one, has switched over to half lap and mitered half lap joints on cabinet doors. Mitered half lap or mitered bridle would be the way to go, plenty strong enough.

[john bateman]

Merle Clamps are great for that type of construction.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/merle_clamp.html

[David Hostetler]

I use the MLCS mitered frame set, so the assembly of the mitered corners is by the small round biscuits, I use the BigHorn multi angle band clamps from Amazon... Hope posting up the link isn't verboten. Mods if this is wrong please edit. I am just trying to be helpful...

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Horn-19632-Multi-Angle-Nylon/dp/B001BZZ0H6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=10L158FN0PYG7&coliid=I3TOBX30JPBHCJ

Anyway, they aren't great clamps. I added little pieces of self adhesive sandpaper to the contact pads to keep them from slipping.

[scott vroom]

Of course these things are highly subjective but I prefer cope and stick over mitered doors. I like the way the stile end grain contrasts with the rail edge...it provides architectural interest and it projects strength. Just my .02

[John TenEyck]

Thanks, guys. I have made quite a few doors using the traditional stick and cope profile cutters. They turned out just fine, my only objection was you see the end grain on the stiles. Not a problem on cabinets mounted high enough so you don't see the top or bottom of the door. We did a kitchen remodel on our former home using commercial cabinets and the doors were mitered, I liked the look. John TenEyck, you mentioned using two biscuits in the miter, what size? Or did you stack them? Stacking doesn't sound doable, but? John Means, nice setup with the Domino! Wish I had one!! I'm going to get a clamp, the one Lee suggested and mock up a door with biscuits in the miter and see how it goes.

Yes, I stacked the 2, #20 biscuits. There was just enough thickness to do so. As for biscuits not being strong enough, I read an article in FWW a few years ago by a guy making frame and panel interior doors, using nothing more than biscuits to join the butt jointed stile and rails. If they are strong enough for that, they are more than strong enough for a much lighter and lighter duty cabinet door. Also, the strength tests done by FWW some time ago showed mitered joints to be surprisingly strong with no reinforcement. I was quite surprised to see that, but data doesn't lie.

IMHO, the easiest and strongest joint for this would be an exterior spline. It's essentially a bridle joint, but much easier to make. But if you don't like looking at the end grain of the spline, your choices are pretty much those already discussed.

BTW, the cabinet I made those doors for sits in a bathroom. I get to look at it every few months when I visit the owner, and I always go check to see how they look. No issues yet.

John

[Dave Anthony]

I've made several cabinets with flat panels and mitered doors. One of these is a cabinet which sits outside under a covered patio, another is a bathroom vanity. Miters are reinforced with dowels. I've had no problems with the miters opening up, even though the outdoor cabinet is several years old. None of the doors get heavy use though, so YMMV.

[zayd alle]

To answer the original question: I glue 45-degree blocks to each corner in order to use parallel jaw clamps. This requires an extra step since the blocks need to cure overnight, but it can't be beat for applying just the right amount of force in exactly the right place and direction. After the glue dries, the table saw cuts off the blocks along with the extra door width/height (built oversize to start).

Of course, I do this on low-volume projects. It's a lot to do on a project like a kitchen, although I'd probably still do it. I'd just charge more (ironically, since production shops probably make mitered doors because of the time savings).