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John Finnegan
11-14-2012, 9:43 AM
Hi All,

I would like to purchase a laser from China and I need to have it on the books before the end of the year. The cutting area I’m looking for is 1300 x 900 or 1200 x 800 (close to 48” x 36”).

I’m interested in a somewhat higher end manufacturer than the producers of the Shenhui or RedSail models, though I still want to remain in a reasonable $7-$9k delivered range. My understanding is that manufactures in the Guangdong province (Shenzhen area, near Hong Kong) tend to produce higher quality machines, though that is anecdotal and I don’t want to over-generalize. I know that many folks here are happy with their Shenhui machines.

I have inquiries into Yueming laser, who seems to have a nice German imported x-y gantry assembly and uses American made lenses. I’ve also made contacts with the gentleman that supplies lightobject with their laser gantries and DSP, and he’s able to provide everything except pass-through capabilities and FDA certification (this might be a big deal, I don’t know).

So my question is:
Does anyone have the names of the higher end manufacturers in China? For example, the factories that US distributors of Chinese machines like Hurricane or Jameison would be using to custom build their machines? I’d like to be able to support US distributors in the future, but right now cost control in my fledgling business is most important factor and I do not require US based support or training at this time.

I won’t list out all the positives and negatives of the two suppliers I’ve already contacted yet, but if you’re interested in the specs I’m looking for, they are:

100W RECI tube (w4)
1300x900 bed is best; 1200x800 bed might be ok
(2) sets of SI mirrors – high quality
40, 50, 70, and 100mm lenses
Power z-axis bed
2:1 Reduction and NEMA drives
Honeycomb table
Pass through capability – front and back
Rotary assembly
CW5000 chiller with pump and flow sensor
Red Dot alignment
Exhaust Fan
Lighting on inside of enclosure – LED or Fluorescent on the rear of the inside
Home position in top left corner (limit switch goes there)

Thank you very much for your feedback and advice.

John

Earl Cox
11-14-2012, 9:57 AM
Try Ray Scott, of Rabbit Laser USA. He's located in Ohio.

Bruce Dorworth
11-14-2012, 10:05 AM
I have a GWeike and build quality is very good.

Bruce Dorworth

Ross Moshinsky
11-14-2012, 10:07 AM
Don't trust them when they say anything is German or American made. The chances are close to 0.

Gweike is where a lot of people get their lasers from. I'm fairly sure that is where Hurricane gets their machines from.

The reality is, all the machines are designed with the same parts and made essentially the same way. The differences come in quality control and customer service. If you're going to buy, Shenhui and Gweike are two of the most reviewed manufacturers.

Rodne Gold
11-14-2012, 10:33 AM
That machine you list should cost you $6k all in with some more spares , excl shipping which will be another $1000 , from any reputable maker.
I was at the shenui factory , was impressed and after 18 months of flawless running my 2 machines in a terribly rough environment , I'm pretty sure you can get a great machine from them. You can spec your machine up as well , you can specify servos , RF tubes , optical recognition and so forth. The lasers are rather simple machines to work on or upgrade if you want to do it slowly.

John Finnegan
11-14-2012, 11:12 AM
What are your thoughts on the quality of the gantry?
I look at the G.Weike bolt on single rail style (like the Shenhui) and compare it the the Yueming (there is a nice view at 2:10 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfCD7VG0QLw&feature=plcp) and the Yueming looks to be a more robust extruded metal.
Is that a legitimate concern? I don't want to make too big of a deal where it doesn't matter - I'm just inexperienced.

Thanks,
John

Ross Moshinsky
11-14-2012, 11:32 AM
YM looks worse to me. Seems like they are mounting the rail on the top of the gantry and has the laser head cantilevered from the bearing block. I can't imagine it achieving great quality at high speeds.

Scott Shepherd
11-14-2012, 11:41 AM
I can't imagine it achieving great quality at high speeds.

I didn't see any "high speeds". It was like watching paint dry when it was rastering ;)

John Finnegan
11-14-2012, 11:47 AM
Enough of that you Trotec snob :)

(Let's see how this business goes and hopefully some day I can join you in Trotec snobdom)

Scott Shepherd
11-14-2012, 12:04 PM
Enough of that you Trotec snob :)

(Let's see how this business goes and hopefully some day I can join you in Trotec snobdom)

Not being Trotec snobby, any GCC, Universal, or Epilog owner can say the same thing :p

Ross Moshinsky
11-14-2012, 12:58 PM
I didn't see any "high speeds". It was like watching paint dry when it was rastering ;)

Didn't someone with a Shenhui laser post a video engraving something compared to what you did with your Trotec and the time and quality was very similar?

john banks
11-14-2012, 1:37 PM
I did, it was vector engraving though. Raster engraving is much slower.

john banks
11-14-2012, 1:43 PM
BTW, for a 1280 Shenhui with spares including spare tube, to the UK with all the freight and taxes paid it was about £6k so about $9k with similar spec to that in the original post.

Scott Shepherd
11-14-2012, 1:47 PM
Didn't someone with a Shenhui laser post a video engraving something compared to what you did with your Trotec and the time and quality was very similar?

Nice try Ross! Like John said, that was vectoring, which we all know doesn't change much from machine to machine. I did say RASTERING!

I also didn't say one was better than the other, I simply made a comment that it looks like it rasters very slow. I thought by all objective means, that's an accurate statement.

Hilton Lister
11-14-2012, 2:47 PM
What was surprising to me was that there appeared to be no over run on the raster. It just ran from edge to edge of the pattern. Is that a standard feature on more modern machines than my Laserpro Mercury?

George Carlson
11-14-2012, 8:08 PM
The problem will be getting it in in time. I assume you want to use it for a sec179 expense. As I recall, the equipment must be in operation before the end of the year, not just paid for. Importing a laser, even if the manufacturer has it in stock, will take a couple of months, especially near the end of the year. Try Rabbit, I think they keep units in stock here in the US.

John Finnegan
11-14-2012, 9:33 PM
The problem will be getting it in in time. I assume you want to use it for a sec179 expense. As I recall, the equipment must be in operation before the end of the year, not just paid for. Importing a laser, even if the manufacturer has it in stock, will take a couple of months, especially near the end of the year. Try Rabbit, I think they keep units in stock here in the US.

Wow, good catch - I didn't know - I'll have to look into that.

Thanks,
John

John Finnegan
11-14-2012, 10:51 PM
By the way, are these companies typically able to come off their quoted price somewhat?
I suppose it never hurts to ask, but what is protocol here?
Specifically, I'm looking more and more at G.Weike as a supplier.

Thanks,
John

Mike Null
11-15-2012, 5:33 AM
Negotiate.

John Finnegan
11-15-2012, 11:10 AM
Ok, so I'm closing in on some specifications and then looking ahead at potential logistics. It looks like I may need to move somewhat quickly on this, so I have the time difference working against me.

Really, spec wise, I have only a couple questions:

- What, if any, would be the benefit to upgrading the 1300x900 unit to Servo motors? Usage will be mostly vector cutting and vector engraving, with a small amount of raster interspersed.

- Does the spare 100W RECI tube that I'm thinking of purchasing have a shelf life? I anticipate running the laser only 1-2 hours a day in the foreseeable future, but I've heard to expect 2-3 years of working life on the tube.


And then for logistics:

-I have a CIF cost to JAX Jacksonville, FL, which is about 5.5 hours from where the final delivery would need to be (my home residence in Greer, SC). How do I go about getting it to my residence from there? Would the customs broker assist with that, would GWeike help, or am I on my own? The CIF quote to JAX is approximately $335 over FOB at Qingdao.


I appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks again,
John

john banks
11-15-2012, 1:21 PM
It depends if the servo upgrade allows faster rastering and how valuable that is to you.

We have a spare tube and I swapped them after a few months to see if there was any difference (and to make sure they both worked even though one would be stored) in high speed high power rastering (there wasn't) and I could not tell them apart in any respect. It could well be that by the time we need the backup tube that has lost gas, or it could be that it is a nice backup from the one we're using most of the time which may be consumed by use, won't know for a while.

If you are in a commercial environment, then a spare would be a sensible contingency. If not, then it might be a waste if you are lucky with your first tube.

Rodne Gold
11-15-2012, 1:28 PM
If you cutting thin stuff , the servo closed loop system would give you a lot better quality cut at high speed..like if you cutting paper..if you cutting 1/8th acrylic or thicker , they wont make much difference , rastering should be faster , quite a bit faster..the steppers gall at high speed.
Supposedly tubes leak gas over time , recis are better sealed than most , they aren't expensive , and its worth getting a spare..you can swap your old tube for the spare you have on hand in a year or 3 and test it , maybe keep the original tube as a spare if it works real good. Apart from that , flying a spare tube from china is not for the faint of heart.
My advice ALWAYS keep a spare on hand.
DO NOT let the chinese handle any part of shipping , get a FOB price and let your broker/shipper/forwarder handle it to your door documentaion , duties and all , all you do is wheel it in the garage and pay , members have posted their broker contacts here , you will have to search for em..

Walt Langhans
11-15-2012, 2:35 PM
And then for logistics:

-I have a CIF cost to JAX Jacksonville, FL, which is about 5.5 hours from where the final delivery would need to be (my home residence in Greer, SC). How do I go about getting it to my residence from there? Would the customs broker assist with that, would GWeike help, or am I on my own? The CIF quote to JAX is approximately $335 over FOB at Qingdao.

Your pretty much going to be on your own on this. The best bet is to find some that can handle it from China to your door. Are you keeping it at your house? If so you need to let them know that so they have a truck with a lift gate so they can get the machine off the truck. If your getting a laser without legs that have wheels you'll also need to figure out how you are going to put it where you want it, lasers are not 'light' :) If you can't find anyone, PM I'll send you a few that I found, but regardless make sure to get several quotes. I had shipping quotes that varied by 300 - 900 bucks.

John Finnegan
11-16-2012, 9:53 AM
I'm hemming a little on the upgrade to servos instead of steppers. I'll definitely be working on veneer and paper, but my current largest source of income is on 1/4 wood. The upgrade cost is approximately $1,000, which seems high to me. Hmmm...

Ross Moshinsky
11-16-2012, 10:11 AM
I'm hemming a little on the upgrade to servos instead of steppers. I'll definitely be working on veneer and paper, but my current largest source of income is on 1/4 wood. The upgrade cost is approximately $1,000, which seems high to me. Hmmm...

Find out how much and how difficult it would be to switch to servos. You can always switch later if you find you need to.

John Finnegan
11-16-2012, 2:19 PM
Well, now I've done it.
I just placed 50% down on a 1300 x 900 from G. Weike.
I suppose that gives me a couple days to have my internal servo vs. stepper debate.
Fingers crossed that it makes it here by the 1st - we'll see.

I'll keep y'all updated.

Thanks,
John

Bruce Dorworth
11-17-2012, 12:58 AM
I can see no advantage to a servo laser versus stepper. I realize with servo motors if the laser loses a step or two it wil know and catch up where it left off, but I would think the piece would be ruined by then. Do you mean 1200 x 900? What type of laser/wattage did you order?

What type of material will you be cutting? I think you will be happy with the Gweike machine.

Bruce

Rodne Gold
11-17-2012, 6:34 AM
http://www.cncroutersource.com/stepper-vs-servo.html

John Finnegan
11-17-2012, 9:29 AM
I've found that the Servo that they use is a Panasonic MHMD042. It is AC 200V.

For the nerds in the group, this model is located on pg 79 (pg 41 of the pdf) in the catalog located here:

http://pewa.panasonic.com/automation-controls/servos-and-drives/a5/

Click on the 'Catalog PDF' tab up top.

1300 x 900 with a front and rear 20cm pass through is the model I've ordered. It will use a 100W Reci tube.

My primary money maker right now is vector cutting 1/4" veneer core birch plywood, but my next product will be on thin wood veneer and card stock paper. Intricate vector cutting will play a large part in those products. I don't anticipate too much rastering, but I can pivot if the market is there.

Unless I change my mind on the specs in the next day or two, my order is listed below.
Those more experienced at this, please let me know if there is anything you think I'm missing or being unclear about.



100W RECI tube (w4) - must be RECI:

1300 x 900 bed

Color: Bright red with white doors

Honeycomb table - iron, NOT aluminum (with knife table below)

Pass through capability – front and back - 20cm

(2) sets of SI mirrors – highest quality

50, 63.5, and 100mm lenses

6535 DSP Card

Power z-axis bed with stepper motors - must include limit switch

Servo motors on xy axis

Spare tube - RECI 100W (w4)
Spare belts
Cylinder Rotary

Irregular Rotary

CW5000 chiller with pump and flow sensor

Red Dot alignment - type that goes through the mirrors

Exhaust Fan (sucks the smoke out of the machine)

Air assist (blows the smoke away from lens)

Lighting on inside of enclosure – LED on the rear of the inside

Home position in top left corner (limit switch goes there)

Switches on front of laser to turn on/off exhaust fan and air assist pump (if not in software)



John

Rodne Gold
11-17-2012, 12:30 PM
Order an extra few stock lenses , a spare motherboard and lcd panel and a spare power supply for the tube , consider a spare servo motor ... IMO you set to go for any eventaulity..perhaps overkill..but better be safe than sorry

Doug Novic
11-17-2012, 8:23 PM
John,

Want it soon, good service, good price and a local distributor? Call Ray Scott or Carole Scott at Rabbitt Laser USA. Made in China to his specifications. Extras included. In stock in Ohio. Ray generally sets it up himself. My leasing company investigated him over a year ago (when I bought) and they said it is a very stable and strong company. Good to know before you lay out $$$. www.rabbitlaserusa.com (http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com) and no I do not work for them. Just a satisfied customer.

tommy suriady
11-18-2012, 3:43 AM
Hello all,
Brand new to the forum.
I am getting a BS1325 that is a 1.3m x 2.5m flatbed with 100w reci from BAISHENG out of guangzhou. (en.bshcnc.com)
Paying 56000rmb for it with cw5300, bound for Malaysia. Hearsay has it that they manufacture the best bodies around. the guts are all standards.

getting a spare 100w laser, additional cw5000 for my 80w and 50mm lens beside the 100mm that comes standard.

they include a compressor, but i guess i am getting one that is stronger here b'cos i am going to be cutting 20mm plywood.

I have a BS9060 w 80w laser that has served me well the past few months. Built quality is good, that is why i am getting from the same factory.
Basically parts looks good and the weld-works are very clean.
Can provide some pictures if needed.

Nobody speaks proper english in the company. I communicate with them through e-mails in Chinese, but so far their recommendations have checked out(hopefully).
eg:
I asked for 150w laser and they recommend 100w for stability. I tried a 150w w8 reci and it didn't fire below 30% setting on Powercut. My 80w fires all the way to 0.1% power on Corelcut by Taizhi. But maybe the 150w machine wasn't tuned well.
So i called RECI to ask and the person actually recommended 100w over 150w if I want to do engraving.

So I asked if they can install any software on the machine and yes they can indeed. So I was asking if RDCAM is better or Corelcut. They recommend Corelcut.
I am using corelcut and it seems good enough for me. So it is fine by me.

Hopefully it comes well. It is huge!

will keep everyone posted.


Tommy Lim

john banks
11-19-2012, 4:31 PM
You're going to cut 20mm plywood with a 100W RECI from one side or a 100W RECI from on top and underneath?

With a single 100W RECI (using 100mm lens) the thickness wood I've cut is 18mm with lots of air and the result was not of retail quality or economical as it only did 3mm/s. It was pine, perhaps good laser ply would cut better?

Rich Harman
11-19-2012, 5:29 PM
The thickest ply I have cut is the 1/2" or so Chinese stuff that made up the laser's crate. It cut fine, don't remember the speed. Not exactly top quality ply though.

The thickest wood I have cut is 15mm cedar at 4mm/sec.

I would think you would want a lot more than 100 watts for cutting 20mm ply. Maybe if you cut from both sides like John said.

What kind of 20mm ply is it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3thY7JVDFig