Laser recommendation for vector cutting acrylic sheets

[John J Wang]

Currently we have a 35W ULS M300. We have mostly been doing raster engraving and it has been fairly bullet proof. The only maintenance over the last 8~9 years was a set of bearing, gas strut for the lid, and a laser cartridge change last year.

As we do more vector cutting on acrylic, we are starting to see the limitation of 35W. It's no longer a function of time, but power. We do not have air assist on the M300 and we are also having some issues with the driver. We did a speed setting test and found that we only had a few cutting speed at the lower speed regardless of the setting, which either over cuts or under cuts. Currently, we are running two passes, one light and one heavy cut for the 1/4" acrylic and do not have good edge finish.

If the new laser will primarily be cutting sheets of acrylic with light engraving, what's the laser wattage recommendation to comfortably cut 1/4" acrylic and maybe 3/8"? and any difference between Trotec, ULS, and Epilog?

The table size on the M300 is 24x12. Even though I like a larger table size, currently we buy 4'x8' size and our distributor cuts it down to 24"x12" for us.

I like ULS and would prefer to buy a US made machine, but I've seen Trotec demo at the show and my coworker was impressed. To be fair, based on what I've read, it's doesn't take too much to beat a 10year old 35W ULS M300.

Then there are the Chinese laser. Personally, I avoid products from authoritarian countries, but I'm in the minority. The only upside is that my coworkers and I like to tinker and if we do go with a Chinese laser, we would most likely build it from scratch using a Chinese laser tube to try and do some automation.

A couple years back I notice the laser engravers were heavily discounted but what are the prices these days? Is tradeshow still the best time to buy?

thanks,

John

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi John, that's a pretty broad spectrum you painted there :) All the way from top of the line down to building your own from pieces. What's your gut tell you to do?

[Ross Moshinsky]

For vector cutting acrylic, it's going to be hard to beat the value provided by a Chinese machine. That's just the way it is at the moment.

[Mike Null]

John

I'm a diehard Trotec fan as I've never seen a machine more bullet proof. There is a show coming up in Jan. in Las Vegas where you'll be able to review a lot of brands including some Chinese made machines.

[Scott Shepherd]

There is also a show at the end of this month in Atlantic City. Small show, but Epilog, Universal, and Trotec will all be there.

[John J Wang]

Hi John, that's a pretty broad spectrum you painted there :) All the way from top of the line down to building your own from pieces. What's your gut tell you to do?

If it's my sole decision, I would go with a freestanding ULS with a 24x12 table size (VLS3.60 ?) and a 60W laser. Looking at my notes it seems like anything after 60W, the prices increase is quite drastic. A few years ago I saw Trotect at the show and they are blazing fast and seems to have a finer engraving resolution compared to our rather old M300. How do the newer ULS compare with Trotec? It looks like there's a new paint job for the ULS and the availability of a high density focus lens, but are there any internal changes for the newer ULS machine?

I rather not even think about Chinese lasers, but my coworkers are not as idealogically driven as I am:) Building our own with a chinese laser tube is a compromise.

[Scott Shepherd]

How do the newer ULS compare with Trotec? It looks like there's a new paint job for the ULS and the availability of a high density focus lens, but are there any internal changes for the newer ULS machine?

You won't use the high density optics for your application. It's used for producing really small spot sizes, which decreases the working focal length a great deal, so your material needs to be dead flat and it'll take a while to engrave with a smaller spot size.

The new ULS machines are a vast improvement over your M-300. You asked how the Universal compared to the Trotec. Quite simply, they don't compare. The trotec is VERY fast. Watching the Universal after watching the trotec is like watching paint dry. Engraving quality wise, I'd say they are equal. Productivity wise, not even close. Trotec wins hands down. As far as how they are built, both are solid, but where the Universal uses a 1/4" belt, the Trotec uses a 1" wide belt. It's built like a high tech sports car.

If you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer. We have both, side by side, both run at some point most every day, so I've got a lot of hours behind both of them and I'll try to answer as objectively as possible.

[Paul Phillips]

John, I have a ULS Professional Series I've had about 3 years, with 2 60 watt tubes and I can affirm what others told me when I was looking, buy as much wattage as you can afford. I often cut 1/4" and 3/8" acrylic and sometimes 1/2" and I can't imagine using less than 120 watts for cutting, even if I'm cutting 1/8" I use 100p, but in a high production environment it's worth it to me. if your'e cutting that much acrylic- "get as much as you can afford"! Simply put, the more power you have the faster you will be able to cut, so then you have to determine for yourself, am I cutting enough to justify the extra cost, if your keeping your machine running all day cutting and your workload is getting backed-up then the cost of more power will be justified, if you can effectively double your production speed by upgrading then it should be worth it, but only you can answer that question. One more thing to consider, from what I've read here, on the Chinese machines (correct me if I'm wrong) the higher the wattage on the glass tubes the more difficult it is to get the fine detail/low wattage engraving, the nice thing about the dual tube setup is that you can choose to use one or both tubes and can therefore get very low power if you need it and do not lose ability for fine detail.
BTW, I like my ULS but when I get the chance to upgrade I think it will be a Trotec because of the superior quality and speed.
Hope this helps.
Paul

[John J Wang]

You won't use the high density optics for your application. It's used for producing really small spot sizes, which decreases the working focal length a great deal, so your material needs to be dead flat and it'll take a while to engrave with a smaller spot size.

The new ULS machines are a vast improvement over your M-300. You asked how the Universal compared to the Trotec. Quite simply, they don't compare. The trotec is VERY fast. Watching the Universal after watching the trotec is like watching paint dry. Engraving quality wise, I'd say they are equal. Productivity wise, not even close. Trotec wins hands down. As far as how they are built, both are solid, but where the Universal uses a 1/4" belt, the Trotec uses a 1" wide belt. It's built like a high tech sports car.

If you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer. We have both, side by side, both run at some point most every day, so I've got a lot of hours behind both of them and I'll try to answer as objectively as possible.

Scott, for vector cutting, does Trotec still have a signifcant edge over ULS? If it does, how is it better? On our M300, it slows down when interpolating arcs. Does the newer ULS have this problem? Thanks.

[John J Wang]

Paul, we don't use our laser engraver that much. Perhaps 8~12 hours a week. Time is not really an issue for us right now, but I do notice that we have uneven cuts when using the full table. We nest the parts to fit the entire 24x12 sheet and let it engrave and cut for an hour to a hour and half and sometime we ended up scapping half of the parts due to incomplete cuts. Re-cutting solves some of the problem, but the 2nd cut will over cut/burn some part edges, and those parts gets scrapped as well. Though, cutting on 1/4 of the table works at a time works just fine. We ran some test cut and notice that despite the almost infinite speed setting from .1% to 100%, we actually only have a few setting when speed drops bellow 5%. The control issue and the 35W tube are the main reason why we are looking for a new machine.

How are the P series different from the V series?

thanks

[Ross Moshinsky]

If you're only using the machine 8-12 hours a week, isn't that more of a reason not to spend a lot of money on it? Why would you want to invest so much capital into a piece of equipment used so infrequently? You're talking about a $20,000 laser (roughly) and I don't even think that's a very good setup for vector cutting. 12x24 is relatively small and 60W is bare minimum wattage. I'd hardly consider that a machine built for vector cutting.

Going with the machine you're talking about has major benefits too. You're talking about a machine that can do everything your 35W can at the same quality. If your machine died tomorrow, you could use the 60W no problem. If you went out and bought any laser that was designed primarily for vector cutting (100W+ with a 3x4 table), that transition might not be so easy or even possible at all.

If you're looking for a versatile machine that can vector cut more efficiently, the Trotec Speedy 300 w/ the 80w tube for $25k (roughly) is about as good as you can get. You could turn around and sell your old Universal for $5-6k to fund the difference. You won't miss it, especially considering the machine is only used about 8-12 hours anyway.

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott, for vector cutting, does Trotec still have a signifcant edge over ULS? If it does, how is it better? On our M300, it slows down when interpolating arcs. Does the newer ULS have this problem? Thanks.

Well, I'd say the P series and even the VLS (same machine on some of the platforms, with the only difference is no LCD screen and no optical focus (which I've never used for a job myself) are much better than the M series. The PLS was really well built, the VLS got cheapened up a little, just minor things like hinges, etc, but everything else is the same as the PLS series as far as I know.

They will engrave faster for sure. They do well on vector cutting. Not perfect, but pretty good.

[Paul Phillips]

John, it almost sounds like you are describing a focus issue but if I understand correctly, the main problem you are having with cutting is that the machine is to old to be compatible with the driver which affects your speed settings so you can't properly adjust your speed to be optimal for cutting, is this right? If so, have you called ULS tech support? Do you know if they have a work around or some older driver that will work better? If that's your only issue it may be a simple fix. Maybe Mike McKenzie will chime in and give you an answer on that.
Paul

[John J Wang]

Pual, I think the laser power tapers off after 30+ minutes. Engraving/Cutting a quarter of the 24x12 sheet is fine, but with the same setting, it will under cut just slightly enough to scrap the parts if I run the entire 24x12 sheet which take around 90 minutes. With the 107M ULS driver, I only have two settings in the low range. 0.9% to 1.2% is one speed and 0.8% to .05% is another. One will undercut and the other will over cut and scorch the edges.

I just emailed Mike. We bought the M300 from his company. We don't have that much interaction because the M300 is fairly reliable over the last 8~9 years and the stuff we do are farily simple. However, I am very impressed with his honesty and knowledge. He truly places what's best for the customer above making a quick sale and one of the reasons why I have a favorable impression of ULS.

[Paul Phillips]

Yeah, it sounds like you definitely have some other issues going on like table level or power issue. Hopefully it's a cheap easy fix and you can get a few more years out of it. Mike is the man though like you said and I'm sure he will be able to give you an answer, we bought ours through him as well and were very happy. Let us know what happens or what his solution is for you.
Best of luck.
Paul