Advice on planing end grain butcher block

[Craig Behnke]

i made an end grain butcher block/cutting board. it's a mix of maple and purpleheart. I want to flatten some areas of it as it's not sitting as flat as i'd like. I am a relative noob to hand planes, having only done a few boards so far. I have a LV LA jack plane with both a 25 deg. and 50 deg. irons, both are O1 steel.

I did a little planing on the block/board last night and it was rough sledding. I was using the 50 deg. blade, freshly sharpened, and it was damn tough to move. After a great upper body workout, burned calories and a pint of sweat, I finally figured the lower angle just might be easier to use...but I didn't try last night because I was wiped out from the workout.

Before I give it another crack, I wanted to get some sage advice. Should I try the 25 deg iron, should i camber the iron, or set it skew in the plane?

What is a good way to go about this task? Thanks in advance.

[Dale Cruea]

The 25* blade should work fine.
Mine works great on end grain. (PM blade)
Set it up straight and take fine shavings.
Try a little wax of some sort on the sole.

I might add that I having been working some maple on my current project.
The maple end grain can eat up an A-2 blade pretty quickly and maybe an O-1 blade..
I used the new PM-V11 blade and it lasts a lot longer.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Wetting the end grain with mineral spirits or alcohol will help to make the cut smoother, if not easier. SHARP is important in heavy end grain cuts, as well. I like to clamp something like this in the vise, sturdily as possible, and skew the plane as I'm cutting to make the cutting action easier.

Back up the end of the cut or work from both sides to avoid spelching!

The plane will tell you, but you may want to sharpen between going from one side to the other - I've found maple end grain to be tough on O1 irons at times, and purpleheart, the little I've worked with it, was tough on my edges as well.

[Steve Friedman]

I'll be watching the answers to this one. Funny, but I spent last night doing the exact same thing to a maple end grain chopping block (around 15 x 20). Probably lost about the same amount of sweat as you did.

I alternated between a L-N LA Jack with a freshly sharpened toothed blade and a low angle blade, but it was pretty tough going. I even tried a cambered #5, but it didn't seem to help much.

I think the very sharp low angle jack is the right tool, but my problem is the glue squeeze out. I was thinking of using a handheld belt sander to get rid of the glue marks and then go back to the plane to flatten the board, but am afraid of what the sandpaper grit will do to the blades. Just wonder whether there is something that I can use to "wash off" the sandpaper grit to make it safe to go back to the planes. Mineral spirits?

Steve

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Ooops - missed the bit about this being an end grain butcher block, so end grain being the cutting surface. Ignore my comment about workholding, then, I guess!

I'd be tempted to give it feet so it sat flat! less area to flatten!

[Craig Behnke]

I'd be tempted to give it feet so it sat flat! less area to flatten!

Agreed on the feet, I'm not gunning for granite slab flat, just wanted to get it close enough so that feet would level it. That will take care of the bottom, but I want to flatten the top a little as well; it has a bit of a dip/cup in the center of it. I'll try to shave a bit off the left and right sides...not much, but enough so that liquids won't run and pool in the center.

after I glued it up I realized my table saw blade wasn't exactly 90 deg. so the clamping during the glue up caused the strips to walk up a little bit and bow the board.

Next go round, i'll get the TS blade at 90 and eliminate some of the cupping from the glue up.

[Craig Behnke]

but my problem is the glue squeeze out
Steve

Steve,

I had the same issue as you on a previous cutting board, but not anymore because after I glue and clamp it up, i give it about 30 minutes and do some light scraping of the squeezed out excess glue while it is still pretty soft. It makes the next steps SO MUCH EASIER and I don't think it affects the glue up negatively in any way. Creekers chime in if i'm wrong, but it's worked really well for me on my last several glue ups.

[Bill Houghton]

Steve,

I had the same issue as you on a previous cutting board, but not anymore because after I glue and clamp it up, i give it about 30 minutes and do some light scraping of the squeezed out excess glue while it is still pretty soft. It makes the next steps SO MUCH EASIER and I don't think it affects the glue up negatively in any way. Creekers chime in if i'm wrong, but it's worked really well for me on my last several glue ups.

No, that's considered generally pretty decent practice.

I'll concur with others: you want a low angle cutting edge. Stanley offered a plane specifically for planing the end grain of butcher's blocks (probably for periodic maintenance), and it's a low angle plane that would have taken a 25-degree blade (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm#num64).

[Greg Wease]

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm#num64[/URL]).

The Stanley 164 and 62 jack were low angle planes with the same bedding angle as the LV low-angle plane that Craig has. Only difference is the LV is both cheaper and better than an antique original. Stick with the 25 degree bevel.

[Steve Friedman]

Steve,

I had the same issue as you on a previous cutting board, but not anymore because after I glue and clamp it up, i give it about 30 minutes and do some light scraping of the squeezed out excess glue while it is still pretty soft. It makes the next steps SO MUCH EASIER and I don't think it affects the glue up negatively in any way. Creekers chime in if i'm wrong, but it's worked really well for me on my last several glue ups.

Thanks. I know that's the way you're "supposed" to do it, but shop time comes in spurts. I was lucky enough to have time to get the glue up done. In fact I did two, and had to do the second one on a different day. Coming back 1/2 hour later to clean up the squeeze out would have been great, but the dirty looks I would have gotten weren't worth it.

Glue really does a number on my blades - especially the toothed blade. So, I am still inclined to take a sander to it and then go back with a plane, but only if I can find some effective way to clean the surface before I touch it with a plane.

Steve

[Bill Houghton]

The Stanley 164 and 162 jack were low angle planes with the same bedding angle as the LV low-angle plane that Craig has. Only difference is the LV is both cheaper and better than an antique original. Stick with the 25 degree bevel.

Slight correction: Stanley 164 - smoother length low angle plane - and 62 - low angle jack. Just so no one starts scouring eBay for Stanley 162s - though Stanley does use "162" for a modern hammer, a mid-old screwdriver, and a gate latch; but none of them are much good for planing end grain.

[Jim Koepke]

Glue really does a number on my blades - especially the toothed blade. So, I am still inclined to take a sander to it and then go back with a plane, but only if I can find some effective way to clean the surface before I touch it with a plane.

This is one of the reasons for a few "junker" tools in my shop.

A cheap wide chisel is great for knocking off hardened excess glue.

One could even make a wooden wedge and mount a junker plane blade for a chisel plane for this use.

A messed up saw blade can be turned into a scraper for scraping dry glue.

Not all the great user tools have to be bright and shiny.

jtk

[Craig Behnke]

This is one of the reasons for a few "junker" tools in my shop.

A cheap wide chisel is great for knocking off hardened excess glue.
jtk

I recently saw some old table saw blades being thrown out by a neighbor, so I grabbed them and plan to cut them up to make scrapers for dried glue and other nasty tasks. I figure if the steel is good enough for a saw blade, it's probably good enough to recycle as a scraper. with a limited budget I have to find creative ways to get things done,...the Creek helps a ton with that.

[Erik Christensen]

I made a large (24x40) end grain (hard maple, purpleheart & mahogany) top for a mobile cart - tried a number of planes in any number ways and was not happy with the rate of progress nor the finished product so I used a belt sander (I know wrong forum) and that was the only way it worked for me

[Russ Webb]

I just flattened an end grain maple cutting board I made for my wife. I used variously: a Stanley #3, Stanley #4, Lie Nielsen 4 1/2 with high angle frog, Lie Nielsen low angle smoother.

My experience was that they all worked fairly well until the edge of the blade degraded. My solution was to re-sharpen whenever I noticed the performance dropping off. The rough work was done with the Stanleys, followed by Lie Nielsen 4 1/2, and finished up with the low angle smoother and then Lie Nielsen large scraping plane, the Veritas cabinet scraper, and a tiny 1x2" scraper.

The low angle smoother gave the best finish of the planes. But the real lesson for me was: keep the diamond stones and strop handy on the bench and use them regularly. With sharp blades every tool worked well. I found that the edges degraded pretty quickly (25-50 strokes depending on blade) and they all sharpened up quickly. It was not worth fighting with a dull blade. I was much happier as were the tools and cutting board when the blades were sharp.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

With circular saw blades, I've found it's a mixed bag - the old ones that were all tool steel work well cut up as scrapers or whatever, but the newer ones with the carbide tips, the main body steel wasn't worth trying to make scrapers or whatever out of. But it may just have been the blades I used.

[Zach Dillinger]

Sharp is more important than effective angle. That said, in my experience, a very sharp low angle plane will give you the best surface. Sharpness is 90% of the game and will give you the 90% best finish. The remaining 10% is technique and angle.

[Prashun Patel]

Also, be sure to plane on a skew angle to the edges of the board. Failing to do that can result in serious tearout of the sides. DAMHIKT.

[Correy Smith]

I believe the LA JAck was specifically made for flattening butcher blocks. Originally with the 25* blade. The other blade just turns it in to a HA plane thought good for curly woods. That said, most any 40* Japanese plane with a good edge will make ribbons of edge grain. Sharp is all important. The grits left from sanding are a real drag. You will not "ruin" a blade because you just sharpen back, but the initial edge fades pretty quick. Best to have a roughing plane and an intermediate plane, followed by a fine tuned finish plane for the final passes without the glue and grits. I would definitely machine sand if I had the option.

[Sam Babbage]

Thanks. I know that's the way you're "supposed" to do it, but shop time comes in spurts. I was lucky enough to have time to get the glue up done. In fact I did two, and had to do the second one on a different day. Coming back 1/2 hour later to clean up the squeeze out would have been great, but the dirty looks I would have gotten weren't worth it.

Glue really does a number on my blades - especially the toothed blade. So, I am still inclined to take a sander to it and then go back with a plane, but only if I can find some effective way to clean the surface before I touch it with a plane.

Steve


Any sanding, but particularly powered varieties will embed abrasive particles in the wood which will blunt edges post haste, unless it's a beater blade/scraper, I try never to use sandpaper before steel. Obviously this is one of those woodworking rules that can be bent or broken from time to time, but one should generally should adhere to.