Router table or shaper?

[Greg Urwiller]

As noted in another post, I'm just finishing up my router table. It's got a PC 7518 router in it. I've also got a 3 HP Shop Fox shaper. At some point coming up, I plan on trying to build some Mission/Stickley furniture. I'd like to build some of the legs in the wrap around(?) style using the lock miter type of assembly. I've got the book, "In the Craftsman Style" by Fine Woodworking. In there they show a way of doing this by using a couple of jigs to hold the sections when routing the lock miter. Looks like that way would add a lot of stability and safety to the process. Seeing this process has given me a lot more confidence towards trying the project! So, given this, which machine would be better suited? I haven't had the opportunity to use the shaper yet, and the table won't be completely finished yet for a couple days. I'll have to order either a router bit, or a much more expensive cutter for the shaper. And I'm fine with ordering the pricier cutter if that's the way to go. If this turns out well I expect there will be more Mission style furniture in the future so I'd like to utilize the better machine the first time. Thanks. Greg

[Stephen Cherry]

Easy answer, the shaper:

http://www.amazon.com/Amana-LOCK-MITRE-DOUBLE-TONGUE/dp/B000P4NQAW

Plus, a 3/4 inch shaper could be set up with some strait cutters to cut some decent sized tenons. One of the best things for the shaper is cutting both sides of a tenon at the same time. You just match up the spacing of the cutters to the mortising tool, and tenons take no time flat.

[Renee Whitney]

I found this article about the Shaper vs. Router table argument. Hopefully it will help. If you want to read the article from the source, just click here (http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/woodworking/woodworking-faqs.html#10).

A shaper tends to cost more and uses knives which are more expensive to replace. Shapers are also much more dangerous. They are meant for cutting bigger stock faster, and work well for large production runs of the same moulding. The Shaper machines do not take up a lot of room, but require more room because you run larger pieces of stock through them.

A router Table is much more practical for most small shops. A router allows you to run small stock, and is much more versatile as you can remove the router and use it freehand. Routers are also less expensive, and can do any job that one would use a shaper for.

Unless you will be needing to mill several hundred linear feet of stock, a Router is probably the better choice. Shapers used to be more important before there was such a surplus of different types of router bits, but now router tables can do just about any job a shaper can and are much better for smaller pieces of stock.

[Keith Weber]

Routers are also less expensive, and can do any job that one would use a shaper for.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "any" job...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziGLkNyuf4g&feature=player_embedded#!

Keith

[Stephen Cherry]

as far as safety goes, with a shaper running a lock miter cutter, with a feeder, I don't think there is any doubt that the shaper is safer.

[Leo Graywacz]

I could do that with my laminate router :D

[David Kumm]

That article wasn't written by anyone who has used a real shaper. That video is scary. Dave

[Alan Bienlein]

I really don't see what was so scary about what they were doing on the shaper.

[David Kumm]

I really don't see what was so scary about what they were doing on the shaper.

Alan, I was just referring to the amount of material removed and how much wood was trapped under the cutter. The jigs were good and had big handles. Had it been run the other way the left over would have been above the cutter. Looks like pretty soft wood though. Dave

[Leo Graywacz]

It only has the potential to be scary. I didn't see scary either.

Scary is shaping panels for a cathedral shape with the cutter spinning open air with only a bearing on it.

[Peter Quinn]

On the lock miter question it may be a matter of volume. For one job, I'd go with the router. You want to build a house full of furniture this way, I'd go with the shaper up front. If you start with the router cutters and decide later you want to do a lot this way but find the router laborious, then you wind up buying the shaper cutter and have paid more long run. So the choice is yours. It's like buying a 1 year membership at a gym you only attend a few times versus paying the weekly rate for a year. Both are painful scenarios. Only you can match the tooling to your needs. I still buy router bits for short run work to save money even though I have plenty of shaper capacity.

[Jeff Duncan]

I've seen that video before and it is a bit scary if your not used to running a shaper....heck it's a little scary even if you are! That's not to say it's not safe or that they're doing anything wrong, or that one should be "scared" of the shaper. But if your not a little apprehensive about a 5" tall knife spinning at approx. 4500 rpm's hogging out that kind of profile hand fed....you may be a little too comfortable with your shaper;) I actually enjoy those types of videos as they're very informative. There are so many applications a shaper has that are not easily found in books or magazines. It's great to be able to see some different setups in video form!

As far as the original question....using a power feed is going to provide the best quality of joint. With a feed there are no discrepancies caused by pausing for adjusting hand placement or from changes in speed. That's not to say you cannot achieve a good acceptable joint by hand feeding on a router table. Just that it's difficult to achieve the same level of precision and repeatability a feeder provides....for whatever that's worth:rolleyes:

good luck,
JeffD

[Leo Graywacz]

Scared no. Respectful, absolutely.

[David Kumm]

I guess I'm both respectful and scared when I run my big shaper. I had a carbide tooth break off once and after it bounced off the feeder and fence a few times but missed me I seem to fear the exposed cutters more than on a saw or jointer. A big knot chipping off an that set up has clear sailing. The bulk of the feeder between you and the cutter is another hidden benefit. Dave

[Greg Urwiller]

I was leaning towards the shaper but thought someone might have an overwhelming reason why I should try the router. I don't have a feeder, so won't be using something like that. I've been looking for a small one on CL but they're few and very far between in this area. Read nonexistant! Anyway, the one jig they show in the book covers and backs up the leg section when cutting the edge profile. The other jig backs up the section when cutting the profile on the inside face. Depending on how big you make the jigs, your hands can be a long distance from the cutters and any danger. I was dreading it before I saw the book, now it looks like it would be a walk in the park. Anyway, I'll probably order the shaper cutter shown in the first response and go with the shaper. Thanks all. Greg

[Peter Quinn]

On the video link, take a close look at that operation. They are not taking the whole cut in one pass, most of the stock is already removed, that is just a finishing pass. You can see daylight through the cutting arc. That is a fine set up IMHO. They have reasonable stock control, there are no knots to break free in that lamination, they are using a multi pass approach. There is a lot to be learned from watching that vid.

Call it fear, call it respect, call it experience, no need to quibble on semantics, a good dose of it will help keep you safe. I don't see any missing fingers in that video, but I do see a lot of grey hairs. Hmmm....

[David Kumm]

Peter, I see what you are saying. I want the two guys that come with the jig. Dave

[Leo Graywacz]

On the video link, take a close look at that operation. They are not taking the whole cut in one pass, most of the stock is already removed, that is just a finishing pass. You can see daylight through the cutting arc. That is a fine set up IMHO. They have reasonable stock control, there are no knots to break free in that lamination, they are using a multi pass approach. There is a lot to be learned from watching that vid.

Call it fear, call it respect, call it experience, no need to quibble on semantics, a good dose of it will help keep you safe. I don't see any missing fingers in that video, but I do see a lot of grey hairs. Hmmm....

Yes, that is true and the only reason they need to do that is because the quality wouldn't be as good if they did it in one pass as it would on a shaper. But what I'm complaining about is the way the panel was done. They trimmed the edges, changed the cutter, did the profile changed the cutter, did some things to the stiles and rails, changed the cutter, did the profile on the stiles and rails, changed the cutter, sized the rest of the panel, changed the cutter, did the profile pass on the panel.

Why didn't they size the panel and then profile the panel each in one cutter change. They lost much valuable time in those operations.

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, I see what you are saying. I want the two guys that come with the jig. Dave


Agreed. At work we do things in teams that I would be hesitant to attempt solo, or which would take considerable time to rig up for safety. It can be quite convenient to work with a team that is in sync on large projects.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a router table and a shaper and ended up putting the shaper in storage .. I like it but needed the space .. Router tables are much cheaper to own and operate .. Biggest hassle in my area is actually getting a shaper cutter .. I can get a router bit at 5 different places, in under 10 minutes..

[Leo Graywacz]

My router table is a pc of 1/2 plywood on two sawhorses. Yesterday I needed two of them so I built another it 15 minutes. A shaper is more for the professional who needs to make larger cuts and for production. I have 3 of them with my door setup in them. It would take me about 4 minutes to run parts for a door, probably less. But for the guy doing it as a hobby this would be overkill, it would be nice, but overkill.