Another DT test and gloat....

[Roy Wall]

I got so pumped up looking at Alan's Kneehole Desk I tried a couple more HB's...

The corner is 3 1/2" tall - Walnut & Poplar this time. I cut out two, and this was the better of them:cool: . I went a touch long on the pin cut (see upper edge) but it came out okay for a padawon learner. During the glue up, I added a little "walnut dust" to help hide the sins - and the hanplaning definately improved the final edges.

My problems continue to be many - mainly I think I cut the outside shoulders of the tail board a little tooo short, and the middle shoulder (between tails) a little tooooo long - bad combo (this is the corner YOU DON"T SEE:D ). I am also EXTREMELY SLOW. My confindence is improving.

I'm getting away from this walnut stuff and work with some Mahogany/Alder next........

I seem to work better with utilizing a variety of my chisels - the 1/2" seeming to be most versatile... I just lay them out and pick and choose...

Now for some nice stuff!! You see a marking knife and scratch awl from Chester Toolworks:) - They are very beautiful and work well!!! They came nicely packaged to prevent any damage----Thanks Dave Anderson!!!!

[Steve Wargo]

Roy,
If that were a drawer front that is to have a cockbead applied to it, it's more than acceptable. You've come quite a long way since the first set you've posted. Nice job.

Steve

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Roy,those look great, I think you are ready to tackle some drawers.

From a practical standpoint, there are two types of dovetails--those meant to be seen such as carcass joinery and those meant to be hidden such as drawers.

My family was in the antique furniture business for about 75 years and I got to see a lot of 100-300 year old furniture close up. My dining room set, which I inherited from my grandmother, was made in England in the 18th century. The sideboard is beautifully inlaid with 7-8 different species of wood, a truly stunning piece of furniture. The dovetails in those drawers are not as good as those in your pictures. Chisel marks and saw kerfs are common.

Carcass joinery was usually very tight, and showed a lot of care and skill, but not flawless either. Usually this didn't matter because in my experience, dovetailed carcasses were reserved for utilitarian use where strength was of paramount importantce, not looks or style.

I think modern woodworkers have become obsessed with the idea of the "air tight" dovetail as the holy grail of joinery. I agree that it is an admirable goal, but its also something beyond the skill of most woodworkers. The good thing is that most of the rest of us can make really good dovetails that will stand the test of time for durability and beauty.

[Roy Wall]

[QUOTE=Dennis Carcass joinery was usually very tight, and showed a lot of care and skill, but not flawless either. Usually this didn't matter because in my experience, dovetailed carcasses were reserved for utilitarian use where strength was of paramount importantce, not looks or style.

I think modern woodworkers have become obsessed with the idea of the "air tight" dovetail as the holy grail of joinery. I agree that it is an admirable goal, but its also something beyond the skill of most woodworkers. The good thing is that most of the rest of us can make really good dovetails that will stand the test of time for durability and beauty.[/QUOTE]

Dennis, I agree completely! Even with saw marks and gaps the DT joint is extremely strong. I do think I'm getting close to making some actual drawers...I've got some toy blocks my daughters plays with and they need a little "drawer home"---if I make a few slips it will be okay....:cool:

Steve, what is a cockbead??

Thanks guys!!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Roy,

Those are some sweet looking dovetails! As always we are our own biggest critic. I am the same way. I would love to be able to cut dovetails like yours.

[Tom Scott]

Roy,
Those look great, now go make something real! :D
Seriously, only a woodworker would look at a dovetailed drawer at a 4" distance anyway...anything beyond that and mistakes have to be pretty major to see.

Tom

[Dave Anderson NH]

I think you are being overly critical of yourself Roy. While it is good to be critical and it helps you to improve, you are coming along just fine and your efforts are really almost there. Don't fret about speed at all. Concentrate on developing a set routine which will help you work exactly the same way each time and prevent missing steps and mistakes The speed will come with time and experience.

[John Keeling]

I agree with Tom, only woodworkers look at the dovetails close up... I've spent the last 2 years looking at the drawer dovetails on antiques in both the UK and US and I think that on the whole I would have to reject almost every single one i've seen if i'd done it!
Sliding dovetails on carcase work are usually hidden except for a very small portion of it, the only drawer dovetails you see are the 1/2 blinds on the front joint [and you should see the ways some of the pro's approached those].

Now box type joints with exposed dovetails are a different story, because they are specifically there to show your prowess in the joint.

And there are lots of joints that never see the light of day because they get covered in veneer or moulding such as in fine Chippendale stuff.

So pick your battles... only spend the long hours on DT's that will be seen, the rest just need to do their main job... being joints!

John

[Dan Forman]

Roy---I had to look awfully hard to actually see those "sins". You are doing great. Like most things in life, becoming a master craftsman is a journey, not an event. With your keen interest and devotion, and skills aquired thus far, you are well on your way, though really there is no "end" to this road.

Dan

[Mark Singer]

Roy,

As far as I am concerned, your there! That is about as good as they get!...You can fill the tiny voids with hide glue.... Just start making furniture. Pay atention to the drawer bttom and stop the groove short of the front. Great work!

[Dan Gill]

Those look great to me. My first couple (and only) sets of hand cut dovetails had more gaps than English teeth . . .

[Alan Turner]

Roy,
There is no reason that you can't drive in public with those DT's. They look just fine. Everyone who cuts DT's by hand can find his own mistakes, and sees them right away, but others don't. This is a structural joint, and yours sure look strong to me.

[Jim Becker]

Geepers...those are great!!

[Jon Olson]

I think those are great also...Makes me want try!!

Jon

[Jerry Palmer]

Roy,

You've certainly got a lot more patience than me. I knocked out maybe two or three "corners" from scrap, then it was on to use in actual pieces. Initially these were little P.O. Box door banks for the grandkids (and Through DTs to boot) and each bank yielded improvement.

And I still cheat on halfblinds for drawers, resawing the faces, cutting through DTs, then glueing the faces back on. Much quicker and for drawers, like they said, semi-hidden and you really have to look close to see that the faces have been glued on.

But the main thing is that you seem to be having fun perfecting it, and that is what really counts.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

That's interesting Jerry. I have a harder time making through dovetails look good than I do making half-blind (why are they only half-blind?) dovetails look good although it takes me long to do the half-blinds.

[Tim Sproul]

Another way to get dovetails to "fit" better in appearance is to clean-up the squeeze out with a fairly wet rag followed a few seconds later with a damp or dry rag......the water expands the end grain pins into small voids....and the glue keeps the slight expansion permanent.

I'd agree with most others....those look superb. And I also enjoy Dave's marking knife! Got a couple custom ones on order with now...:)