Reasonably priced square?

[Matthew N. Masail]

While ordering my blade I decided to get a good square, the one I have is very questionable. I thought I'd just get this
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=44279&cat=1,42936,42945,44279

has anyone tried it?

on a thought to save a bit, is this a good one for checking edges, plane ramps and such?
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,42936,42941&p=32601

[Adam Petersen]

Hi,
I have the PEC version of this 6" double square and like it a lot. The last FWW magazine I got (which I got after I bought the PEC) said that the Lee Valley, Brown and Sharpe and a few others are all made by PEC. It was pleasing to read since I'd considered all the above options but went with the cheaper version which is a Made in USA tool. It arrived nicely packaged and square. It's my go to square for most work now.

[jason thigpen]

I have the 6" lee valley one. It may be the most used tool in my shop. It excels in everything from machine setup to joinery layout. As with most lee valley stuff, it is worth every penny

[Steve Beadle]

Matthew, I think you will find the precision double square to be much more versatile. I have the four-inch model, and I use it more than any of the other half-dozen squares I own. It's a gem!

Steve

[Mike Henderson]

Yep, a 4" double square is a very useful tool to have in the shop. Here's (http://www.amazon.com/PEC-Tools-7104-404-Double-Square/dp/B000E0K4TS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352576816&sr=8-1&keywords=pec+double+square)a link to the PEC on Amazon.

Mike

[Tony Shea]

I also own the 4" double square from LV. I was a bit surprised to learn that the PEC was basically the same square but even paying a bit more on the LV didn't bother me. I love this little square. But the most used square I have is the 6" Starrett combo square. I use it more than any other square I own, even more than the 12" Starrett combo.

[ian maybury]

Must say that while I can't speak for the PEC/Lee valley which may well be fine that I've mixed views on going economy in this sort of tool - in that i spent maybe €60 on mailing and insurance and lost a couple of months in getting to a good quality combination square earlier this year. Which (you've guessed it) turned out to be the Starrett - the cast version with the crinkle finish.

The basic problem is that it's difficult to buy better than an almost disposable aluminium model here in Ireland from the local box stores - which meant ordering from a UK toolroom supplies place.

Thinking I could save a little I bought what used to be a good japanese brand in cast steel which was on discount. This wasn't one of your $25 box store items, it should have been to a proper professional standard of quality. Both examples (the original, and its replacement) had problems with the tolerancing of the bore and hardening of the locking stud - they either bent or snapped under moderate tightening. Another mid range (but also supposedly decent) brand proved to be very roughly machined in the area at the bottom of the slot that seats the rule, and to be very fiddly to refit rule due to loose tolerances. The rule grabbed badly too when moved.

The Starrett is just completely different - correct tolerances, well finished, rock solid and handles like a tool should. I find myself handling it just for the pleasure. I bought a 4in sliding T shortly afterwards, and had no hesitation in paying the extra to go straight for a Starrett. Which was of excellent quality too. Like this one: http://www.transcat.com/catalog/productdetail.aspx?itemnum=13MC As it turned out I'd have saved money by doing the same in the case of the combination square.

FWW ran a review of better quality 12in combination squares recently. I've written to one of the guys concerned because to my mind while the piece was impeccably structured it just didn't seem to bring out the practical reality of the situation as I experienced it. Perhaps I was exceptionally unlucky, but it's clear that all is not well in that market. There's obviously been a price war going on in recent years, and it seems that as a result (based on feedback from one of the above suppliers) some even previously respectable brands have been forced to outsource and are consequently experiencing quality problems.

It's an issue with at least several implications to my mind:

1. Don't buy cheap(er) if you can't get to handle the item before you buy.
2. Perhaps we need to be thinking of making a point of buying quality tools - so that the guys doing good stuff are rewarded, and that the leakage of quality stops.
3. Mag reviews don't for whatever reason seem to pick up global issues like these.

ian

[JohnPeter Lee]

I have the 4" LV version, and my only complaint about it is that the knob tends to get stuck easily, requiring great force to loosen. If the knob was bigger, or had a circumferential ridge, it would work better. I now find that I use my 6" Starrett combo square much more.

JP

[paul cottingham]

i have the LV one, and its my goto square. I have a 12" starrett, which I love, but use the 6" LV way more often.

[Chris Vandiver]

Starrett can't be beat!

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/B!13.htm

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/B!11H.htm

[Kurt Cady]

Yep, a 4" double square is a very useful tool to have in the shop. Here's (http://www.amazon.com/PEC-Tools-7104-404-Double-Square/dp/B000E0K4TS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352576816&sr=8-1&keywords=pec+double+square)a link to the PEC on Amazon.

Mike

Mike, didn't you link a good 4" one a while back that was in the 10-15$ range? Amazon too.

[Gary Herrmann]

I guess it depends on your definition of affordable.

SWMBO bought me a 4" Starrett double square 10 years ago. I use it more than any other square in my shop.

[Brian Ashton]

I would suspect that either the LV or PEC would do anything you want out of them. The key to a square is that it's reasonably accurate which I suspect both would be or at least their parts would be machine reasonably wellstraight. Even if they were shipped slightly out of square or over time went out of square they can easily be brought back to true with a few minutes of your time and a narrow auger file.

[Derek Cohen]

While ordering my blade I decided to get a good square, the one I have is very questionable. I thought I'd just get this
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=44279&cat=1,42936,42945,44279

has anyone tried it?

on a thought to save a bit, is this a good one for checking edges, plane ramps and such?
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,42936,42941&p=32601


Hi Matthew

I have a few high end squares. If, however, I could only have one, it would be a Starrett 6" double square. I purchased on eBay for about $25 many years ago. It is the perfect size for joinery, and it is such a useful tool (depth gauge, etc). I hear only good reports of the LV version. If I could not find a used Starrett on eBay, or did not wish to take the time to look, the LV would be my first choice.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dhananjay Nayakankuppam]

You should also look at squares made by Australian toolmakers, Chris Vesper and Colen Clenton - expensive but very thoughtfully designed and well made. DJ

[michael osadchuk]

While ordering my blade I decided to get a good square, the one I have is very questionable. I thought I'd just get this
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=44279&cat=1,42936,42945,44279

has anyone tried it?

on a thought to save a bit, is this a good one for checking edges, plane ramps and such?
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,42936,42941&p=32601

Matthew,

I have a set of engineering squares made by Groz that are accurate, durable and less expensive than the LVs and do find them great for machine set ups, etc. .... having a range from 2" to 6" blades has turned out to be a good investment because sometimes a square is "too large"

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/STEEL-SQUARE-SET-4-PC%3A-2IN.-3IN.-4IN.-AND-6IN..html

busy bee is in Canada..... Grizzly in the U.S. appears to have the "same" set without naming the brand.... but I would suspect that Groz stuff should be available closer to you.

good luck

michael

[Prashun Patel]

I have the groz 3 set engineers squares. I find them accurate enough. For measuring, I use an incra adjustable rule that lets you put the pencil thru the holes. I love that thing.

[Steve Costa]

I have 4 Starrett squares which I have purchased over the years. This includes a 12", 6", 6" double square, 4" and a 24" extra blade for the 12". I would not be without any of them as they are used frequently depending on the task at hand. I also have 2 Starrett 6" rules, a 12" rule and a 24" rule. All of which I use as needed.

I also use my BCTW squares as they are amazingly accurate.

Just a tool junkie!!!!

[Matthew N. Masail]

I've decided to get the 6" Starrett double square, thank you all so much for the advice! I might get a small2 inch steel square too.

[Hans Braul]

I have the LV 4" and it is probably the most frequently used tool in my shop. I absolutely love it and have no complaints. Very well made, accurate, and fits in hand so well, I don't know how I managed without it.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

the one thing I do like about fixed squares is when you have that little notch, since it allows you to check for square over saw fuzz or flash on the edges of something.

[Kevin Groenke]

There is a company called iGaging that makes "better than junk" combination squares which you can get for close to junk square prices (~$15). Granted, these do not have the quality or fit-and-finish of Starrett, Brown&Sharpe, etc, but since I'm buying for student use and I'll lose ~6/year it's a reasonable trade off. A little bit of filing and a coat of wax makes them quite good users. Not quite as good as the PEC/LV squares, but very close.

245445

Rockler and Woodcraft carry some of the iGaging squares, they're available from many web outlets as well.

I've gotten them from traditionalwoodworker (http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/iGAGING-Precision-Tools-by-IPIC/products/807/) and mannys (http://store.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/adsq.html)

[Casey Gooding]

I use my Starrett 6" combination square more than anything. I found almost all my Starrett items on a certain auction site for about what new cheaper stuff costs.