What to do with some walnut burl veneer

[dirk martin]

So, I've got some walnut burl veneer. About 24 sheets of it. Each sheet is 18.5" x 5". Rather small.
It's all bookmatched. I was gonna put it up for sale, but now I'm really having a hard time parting with it. It's so stunning.

I've never worked with veneer, and would like to perhaps try something simple with this, just to put a finish on it, and see it really pop.

Would a simple plywood box be a good first veneer project?

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/5/8/4/1/3/1/webimg/621353222_o.jpg

[Mike Henderson]

If you've never worked with veneer, I wouldn't start with that burl. Two reasons: 1) Burl can be difficult to work with (depends a lot on the burl), and 2) burl is expensive. You'll almost certainly make mistakes when you start so it's better to learn on a less expensive veneer.

The tools for working with veneer are not expensive, except for a vacuum pressing system.

But working with veneer is a lot different than working with solid wood - I'd recommend you get some instructions to help you get started.

Mike

[Matt Day]

Hmm, what to do with it, how about I give you my address and you send it to me to worry about?!

I agree with Mike - burl can be harder to work with and that is some nice stuff. I'd wait until you have a good project for it and practice with some cheap backer veneer or something first, or pass it on to someone who can use it. Normally veneer is applied to a substrate like MDF by the way, and it should be balanced, meaning veneer on both sides so the substrate is stable and not prone to warping.

I can't help but point out that the bookmatching makes a very distinct Owl head shape! Very cool!

[Peter Aeschliman]

Gorgeous.

If you're dead set on using this, the size is conducive to a panel in a cabinet door. How about a hanging spice cabinet for the kitchen?

[Richard Coers]

It looks dead flat. Not any harder to work with than any other veneer. I would be tempted to trim some off the bottom, and do a 4-way match. Then you get a nice door panel, back panel for a small glass door display case, side panels for a small shelf unit, etc......You could just make a nice flat panel, put a walnut picture frame around it, and hang it on the wall. Looks like art to me!

[Chris Padilla]

I agree with Richard...if it is flat, then working with it is pretty easy. Burl is often very wavy/curly and difficult to flatten without some patience and experience/know-how.

Plywood is a good substrate...MDF is even better. The key, however, is balance. What you put on one side should be put on the other side. Walnut burl expensive veneer on the show side and cheaper walnut veneer on the non-show side. You'd be surprise how a thin piece of veneer can pull a flat piece of plywood or MDF out of planar if it isn't balanced. veneersupplies.com is a fantastic place/site to learn about veneering.

[Victor Robinson]

Doors for a tool cabinet.

[Jim Matthews]

This has got humidor written all over it.

It's too 'butch' for jewelry boxes.
+1 on applying it to some sort of panel.

[keith micinski]

+1 on sending me some:) Seriously, if you do decide to sell any let me know I will definitely take some off of your hands.

[Ruhi Arslan]

This has got humidor written all over it.

Even if you do not smoke...

[Montgomery Scott]

B&B Rare Woods sells walnut burl like that quite frequently.

[dirk martin]

Ok, I think I'll apply it to MDF, and maybe frame it as "art".
What kind of finish do I put on it? Brush on? Spray on? Rub on?

[Chris Padilla]

I'd use BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil). Wipe it on...wipe it off. Refresh as needed.

[Larry Fox]

I would say a panel of some sort.

When I saw this my first thought was that it looked a lot like the image Victory Brewing uses on the bottles of it's Storm King Stout.

http://victorybeer.com/beers/storm-king-stout/

[dirk martin]

I'd use BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil). Wipe it on...wipe it off. Refresh as needed.

Is BLO typically something I can get at ACE Hardware or a local hardware store?

Also, since veneer is so very, very thin, don't you want to put on some sort of finish, that "builds up", to kinda offer it some protection from general handling?

I'm thinking that if make some sort of box, with a pair of these veneers on the lid, and then rub BLO on it....I'd be afraid that it could easily wear through over the years. I realize the top of a box shouldn't really get much wear, but it's just that 1/32" is so darn thin....

And why do some say to use a J-roller to press the veneer to the substraight, yet others say definitely do NOT use a J-roller?
I'll be using Contact Cement on MDF.

[Mike Henderson]

I realize the top of a box shouldn't really get much wear, but it's just that 1/32" is so darn thin....
Actually, standard veneer is 1/42" (42 pieces stacked together to make an inch).

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Is BLO typically something I can get at ACE Hardware or a local hardware store?

Also, since veneer is so very, very thin, don't you want to put on some sort of finish, that "builds up", to kinda offer it some protection from general handling?

I'm thinking that if make some sort of box, with a pair of these veneers on the lid, and then rub BLO on it....I'd be afraid that it could easily wear through over the years. I realize the top of a box shouldn't really get much wear, but it's just that 1/32" is so darn thin....

And why do some say to use a J-roller to press the veneer to the substraight, yet others say definitely do NOT use a J-roller?
I'll be using Contact Cement on MDF.
Contact cement with raw wood veneer is not the best idea. People I know who have tried it find that the veneer tends to detach over time. Contact cement works fine on backed veneer, such as paper backed veneer. In fact, paper backed veneer is usually handled in a similar fashion to Formica.

But raw wood veneer is usually processed along different lines. If you've never worked veneer, I highly recommend you try to find someone to show you how to deal with it. If you don't want to do that, I recommend the book “Woodworker’s Guide to Veneering and Inlay”, Jonathan Benson. About $16.50 at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Woodworkers-Guide-Veneering-Inlay-Techniques/dp/1565233468/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352915018&sr=8-1&keywords=Woodworker%C2%92s+Guide+to+Veneering+and+ Inlay), or Paul Schurch's DVD "Decorative Veneering (http://www.schurchwoodwork.com/tools/E102_E103_E106.html)". I have a few tutorials on working veneer on my web site (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Tutorials.htm) but most are aimed at people who already know a bit about working veneer.

You will also need some specialized tools, and some experience in using those tools. Speaking from personal experience, it takes a long time, and a lot of practice, to get good at working with veneer - good enough that you can be proud of the results.

Mike

[Erik Christensen]

check out http://www.joewoodworker.com - you can build you own vacuum pump with his parts for a reasonable price and the bag is not that expensive either - I got mine for veneer but in the 3 years i have had it I have use the bag/pump for other things about 90% of the time... for instance you want to glue up several layers of 3/4" ply or 4/4 hardwood for a thicker piece and have it come out perfectly flat it is almost too easy... roll on glue, stack in layers and pin each end of every layer with a 23 ga pin (so small you can cut without worrying about the pins in the cut line) so it won't move when you put it in the bag on a known flat caul, top with breather mesh, seal bag and connect pump.... come back 30 minutes later & remove - scrape off excess glue while still soft and you are done

[dirk martin]

Guys, I've got some veneer here that I can practice and learn with.
I've also got a J-roller, and some contact cement.

I'm not gonna go into this big time...just messing around to see if I can get acceptable results.
You're telling me to not use plywood, so I went and got some MDF.
Now you're telling me not to use contact cement...but you're not telling me what to use....
I'm not gonna invest in a vaccuum system.

Is it really this difficult and complicated?
I guess I'll go check out JoeWoodWorker....

[dirk martin]

Ok, Cold Press glue is what I need it appears.
Like Better Bond Veneer Glue.....

[Mike Henderson]

You can press small things without a vacuum press. Use some pieces of MDF that are a bit larger than the panel on both sides. Put plastic or waxed paper between the MDF cauls and the work so that the cauls do not stick to the work. Use long reach clamps to get pressure across the work.

The reason no one is telling you how to do it is that there's a lot to doing veneer. It's impossible to teach someone how to do veneer work in a few forum posts.

Read the book I recommended, or get the DVD. Even better, get someone who knows how to do veneer work to teach you. Like everything, there's much to learn, and no royal road to knowledge.

Mike

P.S. If it's a small panel, you can use Elmer's GlueAll (white glue).

[Richard Coers]

Mike is giving you great advice. On a small piece like that, I've used my house as a clamp. Yup, I put down a piece of melamine board on the basement floor, put the MDF with a sheet of veneer with glue on both sides, put down another piece of 3/4" melamine board, then sprung some 4/4 poplar between the sandwich and the floor joists. I used Titebond original, and it came out great. You can also drive in wedges if you don't want to experiment on just how long to cut the poplar. I'm a low tech kind of guy. By the way, I put the glue on the MDF and not the veneer. If you put the water based glue on the first sheet of veneer, it will start to curl before you get done with the glue on the second side. I would never use contact cement, and really hate paper backed too. The one time I did use contact cement was on some phenolic backed veneer I used to reskin two huge interior doors on a church job. So that was like using high pressure laminate. Paper backed can have trouble if the finish is not compatible with the glue, especially contact cement and lacquer.

[Mel Fulks]

Contact cement is not permanent ,ask the people who make it . I haven't heard any of them rate it higher than ten years.I like the powder and water plastic resin glue for veneer, it will pull down while curing ,so it needs little pressure. I have an earlier detailed post about it. Cabinet idea is good,perfect for Art Deco liquor cabinet-bar with doors.

[dirk martin]

Thanks gang. I think I'm set to start learning....