Veritas R&D Department - gimlets

[Laird Sourdif]

I purchased Larry Williams molding plane video, a while ago. I would like to try to make some hollow and rounds, and I have been slowly buying the equipment needed. He recommends using gimlets for a bit brace to establish the mortise. They are pretty hard to find.

The R&D department at Lee Valley/Veritas seems pretty good at developing/improving classic designs. If they were to come out with set of gimlets for a bit brace they would pretty much corner the market. I wouldn't think they would be that hard to produce. It would be a niche market, for sure. But judging by forum traffic, it seems like there are quite a few of us looking for them.

Just a thought.

Laird

[Jack Curtis]

How do you differentiate gimlets and regular drill bits?

[Ryan Baker]

I'll second that thought! (I won't hold my breath, but we can hope.) They have spoon bits, which are a [slightly larger] niche market too. I imagine it all comes down to cost of manufacture.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If I understand it correctly, the preference for gimlet bits for this task is that their cutting action allows them to be steered during the cut - I wonder if you could accomplish something akin to that using the tapered bits that come from some countersinks? I could be way off on both of those guesses.

[Jim Belair]

If I understand it correctly, the preference for gimlet bits for this task is that their cutting action allows them to be steered during the cut

I've never made H&Rs but am curious why you would need/want to steer the bit. Aren't you just hogging material out of the mortise and if so why wouldn't a regular auger bit do the job?

[John Stankus]

I have a set of Lee Valley gimlets. Search "Lee Valley Gimlet" and they come right up.


I have never seen the Williams video, but do they use the gimlet to start the properly angled hole for the mortise and then switch to an auger bit?

John

[Trevor Walsh]

Larry has said that in the very small holes for an 1/8" wedge the wood fibers can deflect a regular drill, endmill etc. only a gimlet that could be steered on track could to the job. This was from threads on woodnet if memory serves. They almost gave up making them until they figured out that gimlets were used.

He drills two holes one on the bed side and one on the breast (front of wedge) side they meet just before exiting into the escapement. Then the remaining material is pried and chiseled out.

[Andrae Covington]

I have a set of Lee Valley gimlets. Search "Lee Valley Gimlet" and they come right up...

Just to be clear, the gimlets that LV sells are hand-held wire gimlets. The OP is interested in the ones that were made to fit in a brace drill, because that's what Larry Williams uses in the video.

They do show up on ebay and the usual antique tool dealers from time to time, but I agree they can be hard to find.

245060245061


Larry has said that in the very small holes for an 1/8" wedge the wood fibers can deflect a regular drill, endmill etc. only a gimlet that could be steered on track could to the job. This was from threads on woodnet if memory serves. They almost gave up making them until they figured out that gimlets were used.

He drills two holes one on the bed side and one on the breast (front of wedge) side they meet just before exiting into the escapement. Then the remaining material is pried and chiseled out.

I will just add to this that Larry says, in the video, that they discovered the mortise for the wedge and iron "leans" relative to the body of the plane in the smaller sizes. It can be difficult to start a hole tilted on the X-axis and Y-axis with a regular auger bit, so the gimlet supposedly makes this easier. Same reason chairmakers like to use spoon bits for their angled mortises.

[David Weaver]

I bought a bunch of gimlets, maybe a half dozen after getting Larry's video. For me, it makes more practical sense to use a cordless drill and something like a small brad point (that won't wander when you start the cut).

If I did 100 planes and found that a couple holes wandered enough to show in some planes, I would probably not use a cordless drill, but so far in material that's quartered, I haven't had a bit wander. If you mark your planes, you already have visual reference points both on the front for lean and from the wedge on the side of the plane, you can steer clear with a cordless drill fine.

[Trevor Walsh]

I may standardize around 3/16th as the smallest wedge. It dips slightly into the realm of eary 20th century planemaking. But that would make the process a little easier.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just to be clear, the gimlets that LV sells are hand-held wire gimlets. The OP is interested in the ones that were made to fit in a brace drill, because that's what Larry Williams uses in the video.

They do show up on ebay and the usual antique tool dealers from time to time, but I agree they can be hard to find.

245038245039



I will just add to this that Larry says, in the video, that they discovered the mortise for the wedge and iron "leans" relative to the body of the plane in the smaller sizes. It can be difficult to start a hole tilted on the X-axis and Y-axis with a regular auger bit, so the gimlet supposedly makes this easier. Same reason chairmakers like to use spoon bits for their angled mortises.

I can't get Andrae's attachments to work. Here's a quick pick of the difference:

245056

Pictured are the gimlets Lee Valley sells, and a few gimlet bits for a brace I got from Mark with a set of augers I purchased from him here on SMC. I tried to set the augers on different sides so you can get a better idea. It's almost like a spoon bit with a bit of twist to help keep it from choking as much. The cutting action is mostly along the flutes which really want to be sharp to work their best. (As an aside, anyone have any ideas on how to sharpen something like this?) The hand-held gimlets are the modern variety (these are the ones LV sells) - I don't know if vintage examples are the same. In my experience with them, besides being slower, having the screw tip makes them continue drilling in the direction you started, but they aren't very good for anything deep or in really hard woods, as it's more of a pushing aside and scraping action on these than real drilling.

[Andrae Covington]

Oops. Hopefully I've fixed my photos now, but your comparison shot is better anyway.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I don't know, I think yours shows a better view of the unique tips of the gimlet bits. I'll see if I can't get a better shot of the hand gimlet tips.

I think your photo shows how really, they're kind of like pointy, twisted spoon bits, particularly evident in the smallest bit you've got there where the twist is almost shallow enough (looks like maybe only one twist over the length of the bit?) it's more of a skewed rather than twisted form.