Undecided Potential New Turner Needs Some Advice

[Dom Garafalo]

I joined this board about 2 years ago and have been a lurker since then mostly because I've been searching for a new hobby and have been undecided on what it will be.

I'm basically a DIY kind of guy and like making and fixing things. I have visited this site often and seem to be developing a strong interest in "turning". I haven't invested in a lathe or turning tools because I'm still on the fence but have visited the archives to gain knowledge about tool ratings and recommendations along with the types of things people are making on wood lathes. I must say there are numerous creative and beautiful works of art on this site which strengthens my interest level. But before I make the leap I have a few questions that hopefully folks on this forum can answer which will help my decision.

Since I'm not sure if I will like turning and because I don't have unlimited financial resources to devote to it, I want to be cautious about what equipment to purchase. Here are some of my questions:


1. It seems that Grizzly equipment is the best value but, from what I've read, resale of it compared to Delta or Jet should I decide to upgrade or get out of turning, is much worse. Is this really true with Grizzly's current models?

2. I think I would want a lathe with at least a 12" swing with variable speeds going as low as 250 rpm or less based on what I've read. Does this make sense?

3. I currently have a decent older 10" craftsman contractor type tablesaw, a Dewalt 12" compound miter saw and a Grizzly 12 speed 14" floor drill press.

What other ancillary equipment in addition to a lathe should I be prepared to purchase in order to realistically support turning and make it as enjoyable as possible? (ie..bandsaw, jointer, planer)

4. If my lathe budget was say $1500-1600, am I better off purchasing a new Delta 46-460 lathe (it seems to be well regarded, meets my minimum requirements stated above and appears to be easy to sell ) or a larger lathe, possibly used, that I may not outgrow if I develop a true passion for turning?


I would appreciate any and all comments, suggestions and recommendations.

Thank you


Dom

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Welcome! You'll get lots of advice here.... A 1500 buck budget is a pretty good budget, and the Delta is a pretty good lathe. I've turned on it and think it's an outstanding buy. (And I have 2 Jets.) You being a lurker, probably already know you need the extra bucks for the starter tools and a good chuck. I'd get a 1/2 inch (good) bowl gouge and spindle gouge and maybe a skew if you're gutsy.That 's all you need to start. Yeah, right.....

[Rusty Smith]

My personal opinion is to stick to the name brand lathes. One item that you will need to purchase very early on is a sharpening system. A slow speed grinder with 8" wheels and the Wolverine system is quite popular and relatively inexpensive.

[Michael James]

Dom, I have the delta 46-460 and love it! It meets my needs and wants as I enjoy making the smaller size items. I would suggest you invest in the lathe that will meet your ideal needs. Cheaper to get what you want than horse trade up. It is addicting, so your start up cash will get you in the game, unless you go for the bigger machine.
my .02,
michael

[John Fabre]

Join a club, you'll be glad you did.

Welcome to the Creek!

[Peter Lamb]

Dom, I too have the 46-460 for four years now. It does all the things I wis to do. If you decide you wish a bigger lathe at a later date they are easy to sell.
The second most important decision is a grinder system. I suggest you look a the Woodcraft 8" slow speed coupled with a Oneway sharpening gig. And lastly some Doug Thompson skews and gouges. Find an AAW chapter and find a mentor.

Welcome to the vortex

[Jon McElwain]

Dom,

Lat year I put together a suggested start-up turning package for a friend of mine who had a $1200 budget. It is in Excel and might be useful to you, but I cannot attach it here because of the file size and the number of characters. If you would like, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you a copy of the file. He ended up buying pretty close to what I suggested and has been turning like crazy since!

[Jim Burr]

The club advice is the best you'll get. See what opportunities turning offers and arrange your purchase around that. There are so many facets, your needs may be or not be met without seeing all sides of the spectrum. Just to be clear...lathe work is just short of infinite...never limit your possibilities!

[Steve bellinger]

All great advise. The only thing i havn't seen posted yet,is a chainsaw. With a chainsaw you don't need( right a way) a band saw. you can get all the free wood you need and get them close to round.

[charlie knighton]

agree with the chainsaw, you need face sheild, and dust protection also. safety first, turn native free woods for 1st 100 forms

[glenn bradley]

Run Far! Run Fast! The cost of the lathe is a mere pittance compared to what the vortex will suck out of your bank account :eek:. All kidding aside; have fun!

[Rodney Walker]

Find a club in your area. Let the members know you've never turned before and want to try. See if one will let you try turning on their lathe before committing any money to it.
If turning is for you, then join the club and get your equipment.
Rodney

[George Morris]

Dom go to the AAW web site and search for a local turning club in your area also join the AAW the magizine is worth the fee. . Go to there meeting and see some other shops to see what they use. A club is a great way to get help,instruction and a mentor.

[Mike Peace]

Lots of options on lathes. All of the advice given is good. You will need a Bandsaw eventually unless you buy all of your blanks which is not cost effective. You could probably do fine with a 14" and a 1 HP motor. You may want to add a riser to the BS but with a 12" lathe you could probably get along without it. I am doing fine with a Poulon refurb chainsaw. Joining a club and visiting with other turners and seeing what they do and their tools will pay big dividends.

[Thomas Canfield]

Dom,

Wood Magazine had an article several years ago about getting starting in turning for what I r emember was under $1000. Regardless of total dollars, the cost of the lathe is only roughly half of the needed cost when you include the sharpening, gouges, chuck(s), faceplate(s), sanding and buffing, etc. A good sharpening system is critical to getting a good start in turning and works with a cheap or expensive lathe. You can limit the number of gouges at first, but will be adding quickly for special tasks. Good sandpaper and sanding system will also help get you started better.

The biggest question in my mind is what do you want to turn. Larger bowls and hollow forms require a larger lathe. A 12" limit on the Delta 46-460 covers a lot of applications and would make a good choice if your space and desires work with its limit.

A decent bandsaw (14" minimum) is handy and a chainsaw if you work with local "free" wood. The end of the list is never reached. I do not use my planer or jointer with my lathe, but then I do not do segment work, and there they would be helpful.

[Mike Cruz]

Dom, first question I have is: Is $1500-1600 your budget for the lathe AND the accessories, or just the lathe? This is VERY important because you can easily blow through 500 on tools, chucks, and "gotta haves".

Second question: What turning experience do you have? I know you already have a lathe, but how much turning have you done on it? Have you only done spindle work, bowl work, or both?

Third: What do you foresee yourself turning? Do you want to do bowls, or do you know you are a spindle only kinda guy?

Here are my thoughts, though I really want to hear your answers... If all you want to do is spindles, pens, small bowls, and hollow forms, a 12" lathe will be just fine. If you have an interest in bowls, I think most people grow out of 12" really fast. Not saying that you can't stick with that, or that no one does...just an opinion.

Join a club, take some lessons (from a pro, or a local that will take you under his/her wing), practice on your Craftsman, whatever. But don't run out and buy a new lathe...any new lathe. I really think that would be a waste of your money. If you do, I suspect one of two things will happen (because of your price range)... You'll either fall in love with it, and whatever you bought for $1000 won't be enough, or you could take it or leave it, and now have to sell you lathe at a loss. Best bet, two choices: Buy a used lathe for under a grand that is a good deal so that if you don't like it, you can sell it for what you bought it for and not lose money, OR buy a used lathe at a good deal so that if you fall in love with turning, you can save up some money for a new one, and still be able to unload your used lathe for what or near what you bought it for. Remember, woodworking equipment is like a car...as soon as you drive it off the lot, it depreciates. So, even if you buy a new lathe for $1000, and a month later you go to sell, good luck getting $700 for it. People don't want to save a couple hundred bucks if they are buying used...even if it is pretty much new. They want a deal.

You should be able to find a good used lathe for about $500-800 (new $1000-1600). If you get seriously bitten by the bug, you'll be VERY happy you have a bunch of money left over for tools and gadgets. Oh, another way to look at it is that I found an 18" Jet band saw (used) for $500. You could get a lathe AND a band saw (both used) for what you would pay for a new lathe.

Just some thoughts...

[Dom Garafalo]

Thanks for all the feedback so far as it will be very helpful in making a final decision.

Mike Cruz: Here are some comments to answer some of the questions you raised.

- I do not have, nor have I ever had, a wood lathe or done any turning so I have zero experience. (the craftsman I mentioned is my 10" table saw)

- As to my budget, if I go forward with turning, I would prefer to spend about a $1000 on the lathe alone but might be willing to spend up to $1500-1600 on just a lathe if I'm convinced my interest level is very high. I do realize I'll need to spend extra money on tools and a sharpening set up as well as probably a bandsaw down the road. I do have a good Stihl chain saw and a good reciprocating saw which I suspect will be helpful in cutting and trimming turning blocks. Though my preference would probably be a 14" bandsaw with a riser.

- I think I'm most interested in turning bowls, plates, vases, candlestick holders and generally hollow forms

Hopefully my answers to your questions will be helpful with any additional comments or recommendations. Thanks Mike

Dom

[Prashun Patel]

Dan,

I'd get the Delta 46-460. I have one and it's pretty much everything everyone says about it. The variable speed and reversibility are wonderful. It's plenty powerful for bowls up to 12". If you decide you want more cowbell later, you should not have a tough time selling it. I've had mine for a couple years and sometimes wish for more size, but honestly, larger wood is harder to come by anyway.

You can save some $$ by skipping the bed extension and the stand; these can be made or bought later if you need to make spindles/legs.

By far, the cheapest investment in turning is the lathe.

The G3 Nova Scroll chuck is good for this lathe.
The Benjamin's Best set of turning tools from PSI is a good starter set.
I would also invest in the grinder + Wolverine/varigrind.

These are enough to get you started. ALL will resell easily if you - unlike 90% of the people who try this - don't get sucked into the vortex.

The best advice I can give is put aside an additional few hundred dollars to buy more accessories as your needs develop. You're only months away from lusting after premium gouges, jaws, better wheels, sanding and buffing supplies...

[Mike Cruz]

Oops, sorry, Dom. Somehow, I read that your Craftsman was a lathe...:o See? You get into turning and all you'll see is lathes. ;)

With your answers, I would seriously NOT buy a new lathe. Too much risk in not knowing what you want out of a lathe. Especially don't buy a new 12". A used 12"? Sure, you can always find someone to buy it for what you paid for it. And of course, this is just my opinion.

I strongly suggest the club thing. If nothing else, someone might take pitty on you and take you under their wing, invite you over for a couple of sessions, and give you some pointers. I would, however, take a class or two first. That way, you at least have the basics under your belt, can talk with some knowledge of doing, not just reading, and you'd be more likely to get taken in by someone knowing that they don't have to start from scratch.

Best of luck to you, Dom.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Another suggestion to explore your potential interest in turning, spend a week in full immersion turning instruction at the John Campbell Folk School in NC, and maybe a class and vacation for your wife as well. Selection of the instructor and type of turning is a definite consideration, but it is a great way to define your interests before buying any turning equipment, and the atmosphere and food are outstanding!

[Mike Cruz]

Very sound advice, Jamie.

[Matt Mackinnon]

If you are not sure if you will even enjoy it, then spending any money of tools is a waste of time. The lathe is the least expensive part of the hobby. After you have bought a good quality face shield (like a Trend Airshield) and a couple of gouges, parting tool, skew. Lets not forget the grinding wheel and wolverine jig, a quality chuck ....

You can easily spend the full $1600 on all the accessories.

I think the best place to start is go out and find a wood turning guild near you. I will bet that they will have some hands on night that you can get behind a lathe and have someone show you how it's done and make even something simple as a spinning top or spiddle. Then if it looks like something that interests you, the guild will probably be able to point you better to some deals. I know at my guild, there are always someone selling their old lathe as they are either upgrading or retiring from the hobby. Save some money and buy a used one. Look on Craigslist.

What you realisticly need to decide is what you are planning to make, and this will better define what type of lathe you will need. I have a variable speed General International and recently upgraded to a full sized OneWay 2436. I'll keep the GI for doing pens as I know it's not worth selling. But before the Oneway, I'd spent well over $2000 in other accessories but find turning to be a zen time to myself. It's not for everyone.

Don't jump into the deep end unless you are prepared to swim.

[David Walser]

Dom,

Allow me to suggest you consider trying out turning before investing a lot of money in a lathe, tools, and accessories. My suggestion is that you buy a used Harbor Freight 34706 lathe. (Or, new, if you'd prefer. On sale, and with one of HF's 20% off coupons, you can get the 34706 for less than $200.) With this approach, you can try out turning for under $500 -- including a set of tools and a chuck.

No, the HF 34706 isn't a high quality lathe; it doesn't have all the features that you may eventually want; and it won't let you try everything under the turning sun. But, it is a good starter lathe that will let you try most types of turning. With a 12" swing and just over 33" between centers, it will let you turn good sized items. About it's only limiting factor is a 600 rpm minimum speed -- which makes the lathe unsuitable for large out-of-balance blanks. (If the blank has been cut round on a bandsaw, you should be able to turn a 10" bowl on the HF 34706 without problem.) So, the lathe will let you taste spindles, boxes, pens, bottle stoppers, bowls up to about 10", smaller hollow forms, etc. The lathe is a clone of a venerable Jet design. With maintenance, it should serve you for years.

If, after trying turning for a while, you don't like it, you won't has spent a lot of money trying it out. If, as I think you will, you find you like turning, you'll be better able to decide what "keeper lathe" best fits the kind of turning you want to do. Either way, you should be able to sell your HF lathe for about what you paid for it. Of course, like many of us who started turning on the HF 34706, you might decide to keep the lathe as a back up. Mine sits in a corner of my shop. Mostly it's used as a buffing station, but it still gets used for pens, boxes, and spindles that are too long to fit on my primary lathe's shorter bed. I've had mine for close to 10 years and don't regret purchasing it.

Here's a link so you'll know which lathe I've been talking about: http://www.harborfreight.com/12-inch-x-33-3-8-eighth-inch-wood-lathe-with-reversible-head-34706.html This is the "quality" HF lathe. The others, not so much.

Good luck!

[Mike Cruz]

Just two lathes, David? I'm up to 4! :D

[Dom Garafalo]

Based on all the many comments, I think it would be prudent for me to find a local woodturners group. I have located and contacted the president of an active local woodturners group and will plan to attend a upcoming meeting later this month which should prove to be very informative. I will report back here once I attend and share my findings and impressions.

Thanks everyone for your comments and guidance. I appreciate it.

Dom

[Joe Bradshaw]

Just 4 Mike; I am up to 7 now.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Just 4 Mike; I am up to 7 now.

Take it easy on the prospective turner! You're going to scare him away.....:eek:

Not everyone has more than 2 lathes. That's all I have.:(

I would not venture into Hollow Forms just yet. I just started HFs, and it is completely different than anything else. It's tough to do. Turn everything else and comfortable with that first. Then try HFs. Then threading. Oh, not to mention it requires a completely different set of tooling.

[Scott Hackler]

You could do like I did and buy the Nova 1624 on sale. I think I paid $799 in 2009. They were recently on sale at Woodcraft for $899. I still use it and it is still a great lathe. Yeah it doesn't weight a ton and you have to change belt positions to change the speed, but it's a trade off for the deal. Now if I were inclined to sell it I would almost guarantee that I could get $600-$650 for it. So for 3 years of use it would have cost me only $100 a year to own.

The savings alone would allow for a couple Thompson tools, a nice chuck, a bionic face shield, a respirator, a right angle drill for sanding, lots of sanding paper .....and still be well under the $1500.

[Mike Cruz]

Dom, maybe not all that near you, but this would not only be a good starter lathe, but it would last you, too!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194014-Relisted-NOVA-1624-44

[Dom Garafalo]

Mike, it's way too far away. Thanks. Dom

[Mike Cruz]

Sorry, Dom, yes it is. I didn't mean for you to drive 1/2 way across the county...no, no, no. I just meant that that set up is about what you ought to be looking for in my opinion. Again, sorry. I wasn't trying to link you up with a specific sale...

[Jon Murphy]

A bit late on this, power just came back after Sandy.

I have been turning for some years, but in a small shop with a limited budget. I think a 12" swing is practical, and although my first lathe was an early Delta mini (10") I now love my PSI Turncrafter Commander (two years in use). It is 12" swing, a 1 horse VS induction motor with a digital speed readout and a two belt system with a 150 to 1800 rpm range and a 300 to 3800 range. The cost shipped is about $500, give or take your location. I quarrel with those who would say a chain saw is a substitute for a band saw, I use a Craftsman 12" that has the advantage of a depth of cut greater than most 14's - it is nominally 7", but I can cut 8" by removing the top guide and cost about $450. I do have a chain saw for collecting wood, but it is a battery operated 10" bar Craftsman that cost about $100. In my younger days I had a Homelite 18" and took down three foot diameter trees with it, felling them on target - a short blade will work if you know how to use it. The rest of the shop has an 8" slow grinder (about $120 from Woodcraft, although mine was $90 on sale) and a 1" by 5" belt/disk sander from MicroMark (about $100). Added accessories are the Wolverine set up for the grinder and Don Geiger's vertical solution arm for the grinder (about $200).

There will be an article on my set-up in the AAW magazine, but it will be months from now. My goal is to encourage new turners on limited budgets, and with limited space, to enjoy our art - mini and midi lathes aren't just for pens and peppermills. My list above amounts to about $1500, and then there are the tools. But these can be done more cheaply than you might think. With the proper investment in the grinding set-up one can buy generic tools and reshape them to taste. I buy bowl gouges for $30 from PSI then shape them myself - the steel is the same as the $60 to $80 gouges from other vendors.

I don't suggest that my set-up is perfect, nor that I had the brilliance to figure it out from scratch. I wasted a lot of money over the years on machines and tools I've since discarded. I have about $700 sitting in the attic in the form of a slow/wet grinder (a Jet, with Tormek jigs) that sounded great at the time, but found I could do as well with my slow dry 8" - and with the latter could shape as well as sharpen.

It is your choice, and the suggestions of local clubs are excellent - but it is your choice in the end. Welcome to the club.

Best, Jon

PS, just read my post and am editing in. Forgot a needed set of tools to bring that 12" log to the size for the band saw depth. One heavy hammer and a couple of wedges. Definitely low tech, but faster than splitting the log with a chain saw.

[Jon Murphy]

Mike, you are a bit late with that signature "I drink, therefore I am". Fifty five years ago I said bibo ergo sum, but then after a few years wondered if it should be sum ergo bibo. (Yes, Descartes actually said cogito ergo sum, not I think therefore I am).

Best, Jon