Veritas Praire Dogs

[Chris Griggs]

I just noticed the Veritas Prairie Dogs (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=70156&cat=51&ap=1) are now out and available for purchase. I was sent a set for evaluation purposes a few months ago, so I figured I’d post a quick review. Hope it helps others decide if these are for them.

Initially, I honestly thought I wouldn't like these. My first impression was that they seemed cool in a gadgety sort of way, but that they might be one of those things that was fixing a problem that didn't exist. Boy was I wrong! I don't know why I didn’t see it right away, but these have fixed the one thing I always disliked about my bench and the English/Nicholson style bench design in general. That is, that the deep aprons make it a pain to adjust dogs from the underside. These are so much more convenient.

The little plates that go under the holes are really easy to install and readily flip out of the way when needed. The fit of these in a 3/4 hole is just perfect. It's ever so slightly looser than a regular dog, but still snug enough that they stay in place. I had couple holes that they are getting stuck in occasionally (likely I didn't bore them straight), but running spinning bit back down through them fixed that. Do make sure your dog holes are straight and not undersized before you jam these down in them (DAMHIKT).

So yeah, overall these a great! Because they are looser than a regular dog they are easier to pull in and out and if you’re not using them it’s nice to just be able to pop them out of the way. While I don’t think they are for every bench – for instance I don’t think I would prefer them on a 4” thick apron less Roubo - for benches in the 2 to 2.5 in thick range that have aprons (especially large aprons like on my Nicholson) I think they have a leg up on a standard bench dog. They’re also nice anywhere you might have a stopped hole, such as on a deep vise chop. They’ve added a remarkable amount of convenience to my bench, and have more or less replaced my regular brass bench dogs.

Happy to answer any questions folks may have.

-Chris

[Bruce Page]

Chris, is there a minimum bench thickness requirement? For example, would they work on a 1¾” thick bench top with through holes?

[Jim Matthews]

I can just see it now, RL was watching a Turkey roast in the oven when "POP" the idea sprung, fully formed.

This sure would solve the problem of keeping dogholes clear.
How many holes in my bench....hmmm.

Do I really need to send my kids to an Ivy League school?

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, is there a minimum bench thickness requirement? For example, would they work on a 1¾” thick bench top with through holes?

The ad says 2 inches minimum - though now that you mention it, I never checked if there is any wiggle room there. Since you install a metal plate under the hole the bench needs to be thick enough that the dog fully retracts below when it is at its lowest setting and pushed down below the surface. The total height of the dogs can be adjusted by rotating them on a threaded shaft. This lets you not only set them so they are ideal for your bench thickness but also so when you have them up they stick up to the height you want - mine are set to stick up about 1/4" above the bench. Anyway, back to your question, if Rob doesn't stumble across this thread and chime in with a solid answer on the thickness range I'll have a look when I get home tonight and then repost.

[Bill Houghton]

I'll probably stick with my existing bench dogs, because I frequently need more or less projection, from 1/8" up to more than an inch. But I can see that they'd have a lot of applications, and, at least, might be a good basic planing stop, always at hand.

Bruce, I note that the catalog copy talks about adjustment over a 2" to 2-1/2" range - I take it from this that you need at least 2" of benchtop thickness; although if you had less, it wouldn't be hard to make a little block to build up the thickness under the benchtop.

[David Myers]

A prime use for these would be if you have dog holes over the legs. These would eliminate the need to drill a side access hole in the leg.

[Sean Hughto]

Biggest downside would be the added time and effort of twisting to adjust the height to deal with thick and thin. Clever in many ways though.

[Rob Lee]

Chris, is there a minimum bench thickness requirement? For example, would they work on a 1¾” thick bench top with through holes?

Hi Bruce -

Sorry - no joy there. Min hole depth is 2". The dog has 1/2" of built-in adjustment... and for deeper holes, just use a bit of dowel (we supply a steel washer for the end, so the dowel sticks to the dog.

One of the best places to use these is in the jaw of your vise.... where you always need to use dogs. Also, as mentioned already, they're a good solution for blind holes, such as over a leg, vise screw etc.

Cheers -

Rob

[Kent A Bathurst]

Gotta admit - clever name. I get it.

Too bad there was no way to work "Meerkat" into it, though.

[Chris Griggs]

.... although if you had less, it wouldn't be hard to make a little block to build up the thickness under the benchtop.

This seems like a very good solution. People do this to get holdfasts to work on thinnish bench tops and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work here...

[george wilson]

A very clever idea,Rob!!!

[Rob Lee]

A very clever idea,Rob!!!

Hi George!

That's high praise indeed... I'll pass that on to Terry, the designer who came up with it!

(I'll only take credit for the name....)

Cheers -

Rob

[Jonathan McCullough]

They should make them out of plastic or aluminum and sell them by the dozen so you can keep them in every dog hole.

[Jim Belair]

Biggest downside would be the added time and effort of twisting to adjust the height to deal with thick and thin. Clever in many ways though.

One could adjust them for the maximum 5/16" with a 3/16" thick washer on the magnet. Then when you only want 1/8" projection, slide the washer off.

[Bruce Page]

Hi Bruce -

Sorry - no joy there. Min hole depth is 2". The dog has 1/2" of built-in adjustment... and for deeper holes, just use a bit of dowel (we supply a steel washer for the end, so the dowel sticks to the dog.

One of the best places to use these is in the jaw of your vise.... where you always need to use dogs. Also, as mentioned already, they're a good solution for blind holes, such as over a leg, vise screw etc.

Cheers -

Rob

Thanks Rob & others. I suppose one could screw a ½” thick wooden plate with a ¾” hole to the bottom of the bench top and mount the steel plate to it. In my case it would give me a 2¼” blind hole.
Christmas is right around the corner...

[Chris Griggs]

They should make them out of plastic or aluminum and sell them by the dozen so you can keep them in every dog hole.

I had a similar thought recently - except I was thinking that they could just sell the mechanism with some sort of wood screw on the end so you could attach them to dowels. I would love to have these in every one of my front row dog holes. Plus that would let you customize them to any bench thickness.

[Derek Cohen]

I like the idea for using them in the chop, and can see one, or two, in my leg vise. The round holes on my bench are for hold fasts and I have a couple of Veritas brass dogs. These are easily interchanged. How easily removed is a Prairie Dog so one can fit a holdfast? Or is the hole then dedicated to the PD?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

I like the idea for using them in the chop, and can see one, or two, in my leg vise. The round holes on my bench are for hold fasts and I have a couple of Veritas brass dogs. These are easily interchanged. How easily removed is a Prairie Dog so one can fit a holdfast? Or is the hole then dedicated to the PD?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

The answer is, it depends on the thickness of your bench top. If you're bench thickness is under 2 1/2" (maybe 2 3/4" tops), than you will be able to use the plates that fasten below the hole. One of the mounting holes in the plate is open on the side so its very easy to simply rotate the plate out of the way and use the hole for holdfasts and other things. If your bench is thicker than that, you would need to plug the hole with a dowel to give the dogs something to sit on. If you can get your dowels to fit so that they'l stay in with friction, but still be easily removed well than you can pretty easily unplug the base of the hole to be used with holdfasts, if you glue the dowels in and permanently stop up the hole, well then your stuck with a dedicated Prairie Dog hole unless you want o redrill. I think if one wants to use these as their main bench dogs they would ideally have a bench that is 2-2.5" thick or they would have a front row of dog holes dedicated to these and other dog holes dedicated for holdfasts and such. Even though my bench falls within the ideal thickness for these, I still will likely only buy enough plates to cover my front row of holes, simply because I use my second row for holdfast far more often than I use it for dogs, and on the rare occasion I do need to clamp between two sets of dogs I'm happy to pull out my pair of plain old bench pups. Actually, I'll likely buy a second set of these as well, when I order more plates so I can keep two in my vise chops and two in my front row of holes - more is better...

Hope that answers you question.

[Ryan Baker]

I was looking at these on the LV site the other day and my thoughts immediately went to the dog holes in my vice chops and a couple other holes in the bench that are blind (over legs or vise hardware so they can't go through) and collect a lot of debris. Keeping these in the holes would probably do a nice job of keeping debris out.

[Jim Belair]

(I'll only take credit for the name....)

Cheers -

Rob

Those Saskatchewan roots run deep!

[Sean Hughto]

Or just use traditional dogs that set without fuss and small parts. ;-)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3118/3126402675_967a01d4b6_z.jpg?zz=1

In fairness, I support Lee Valley and its innovations. I have many of their products, including two of their adjustable hold downs. These prarie dogs are likely very useful for some applications and for retrofitting some existing benches. They wouldn't be my personal first choice if I I was a newbie setting out to build a bench, however.

[Jim Koepke]

And the innovations just keep on coming.

This is a good idea.

My situation is a bit different. Most of my innovations come from not being able to spend all the money I would love to on all these new ideas.

So, I make my own dogs out of 3/4" dowel or turn something on the lathe to fit the holes.

Necessity is the mother of invention. - original source unknown

jtk