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Mac McQuinn
11-05-2012, 9:22 AM
2013 Fiat 500 w/ Manual Transmission.:rolleyes:

I've some interest in one of these, Has anyone any feedback on ownership by chance?

thanks in advance,
Mac

Kent A Bathurst
11-05-2012, 10:10 AM
No. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn..........

Actually, I got one as a rental some months ago. Drove it for about a week.

It had the small engine [at least, I think there is a bigger one] and an automatic. Observations after a week:

Very good leg room and excellent headroom [I am 6' 2" tall].

The auto tranny was surprisingly good. They have a "sport" setting [forget what they call it] that was worthless - way too "busy".

Quirky design on the main instrument cluster.......but, after a couple hours, I had adapted just fine.

I was wishing I had a chance to drive the stick version - I am a lifetime stick owner. And, if there was a bigger mill, I'd of course go for that.

I liked it a lot. Comfortable, responsive, and good to very good handling. I thought it did an excellent job at doing what it was intended to do. If I was in the market for a vehicle in those parameters, it would be a clear contender.

As a reference point, the current rides at my house are:

BMW 5xx, sport suspension, sticky tires, stick tranny.
Mini Cooper S Convertible, stick. A supercharged BMW go-kart.
Ram 1500 pick-em-up.

The 500 ain't my Beemer. It doesn't have the performance nor the handling of the 175 hp Cooper S. But it is not trying to be either of those cars.

Mac McQuinn
11-05-2012, 2:46 PM
Kent,
Thanks for the insight. I felt the same way with seats, dash layout. I was just driving past a dealer and stopped as I've not even sat in one. I was on a road trip so did not have a lot of time to take a real test drive plus the area was rush hour traffic congested, not the place I want to learn the nuances of a vehicle in manual transmission form. Seems for 2013, the Basic "Pop" version with manual transmission comes with larger rear spoiler, front ground effects and perhaps a different final gear ratio giving it a 40mpg H/W figure. It seemed well put together, paint and materials were above average. Surprisingly the Auto Trans is sourced from Japan, Salesman stated it was a Toyota item.
Mac



No. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn..........

Actually, I got one as a rental some months ago. Drove it for about a week.

It had the small engine [at least, I think there is a bigger one] and an automatic. Observations after a week:

Very good leg room and excellent headroom [I am 6' 2" tall].

The auto tranny was surprisingly good. They have a "sport" setting [forget what they call it] that was worthless - way too "busy".

Quirky design on the main instrument cluster.......but, after a couple hours, I had adapted just fine.

I was wishing I had a chance to drive the stick version - I am a lifetime stick owner. And, if there was a bigger mill, I'd of course go for that.

I liked it a lot. Comfortable, responsive, and good to very good handling. I thought it did an excellent job at doing what it was intended to do. If I was in the market for a vehicle in those parameters, it would be a clear contender.

As a reference point, the current rides at my house are:

BMW 5xx, sport suspension, sticky tires, stick tranny.
Mini Cooper S Convertible, stick. A supercharged BMW go-kart.
Ram 1500 pick-em-up.

The 500 ain't my Beemer. It doesn't have the performance nor the handling of the 175 hp Cooper S. But it is not trying to be either of those cars.

Kent A Bathurst
11-05-2012, 5:41 PM
Mac -

The ground effects package seems a bit over-the-top to me............whyncha take one for a spin, and get back to us with your thoughts?

Stew Hagerty
11-05-2012, 6:43 PM
F Futile
I Italian
A Attempt at
T Transportation

Ted Calver
11-05-2012, 6:46 PM
F Fix
I It
A Again
T Tony

Henry Keller
11-05-2012, 7:10 PM
I own the convertible with automatic.I'm 6'1" no problems . Fun to drive.

Mac McQuinn
11-05-2012, 7:13 PM
Kent,
I felt the same as you when I was told of the addition of Ground Effects for this particular model although it was pretty functional appearing, slight lip on the front facia along with a approximately 2" rubber lip extension. Nothing too drastic, appeared to be well thought out. I'm in hopes of driving one soon, will provide some feedback.

Mac



Mac -

The ground effects package seems a bit over-the-top to me............whyncha take one for a spin, and get back to us with your thoughts?

Mac McQuinn
11-06-2012, 11:37 AM
Henry,
Thanks for the input.
Mac



I own the convertible with automatic.I'm 6'1" no problems . Fun to drive.

Bryan Slimp
11-06-2012, 2:00 PM
Drive a Mini too. Heck there are a whole host of mini/micro car options in this price range now.

I had the pleasure of driving a Mini S and it was a pleasure to drive. Tight handling, could turn a circle around a pop can, and a good amount of power for a small car (but really could have used more, but then again is there ever enough?.)

Larry Edgerton
11-06-2012, 5:59 PM
Mac, there is a low mile used one in Petoskey at Fletches with the Italian stripe and all the cool stuff.

I like them but I bought a new 124 Spyder in the seventies and am still holding a grudge. I could write a book about all the things I saw while I was waiting for a tow truck. I traded in my MG so I could get something more dependable.:cool:

They have to be better now?

Larry

Mac McQuinn
11-06-2012, 7:54 PM
A Fiat 500 in Petoskey, MI must stop traffic!
I've owned (4) Moto Guzzi Motorcycles in the past and while the Italian method of doing things was always different, I adapted, learned their nuances and came to love them. As far as the new Fiats go, I'd like to get one on the lift and take a look underneath. Accessibility to key components is important to me as far as maintenance goes.

Mac



Mac, there is a low mile used one in Petoskey at Fletches with the Italian stripe and all the cool stuff.

I like them but I bought a new 124 Spyder in the seventies and am still holding a grudge. I could write a book about all the things I saw while I was waiting for a tow truck. I traded in my MG so I could get something more dependable.:cool:

They have to be better now?

Larry

Larry Edgerton
11-07-2012, 4:45 AM
Petoskey, Charlivoix, Harbor Springs are elitist areas, you are likely to to see just about anything in this area.

There are quite a few Fiat 500's around. See, they build a huge second home on Lake Michigan or on a Golf course somewhere, and then to show how "Green" they are they park a {Insert Micro Car} in the garage.

Michael Weber
11-07-2012, 11:14 AM
I was a terrible parent in the area of giving advice to my kids growing up. However, i do recall advising them never to buy an Italian car or a French car. Having said that, I have to admit the little Fiat is cute.

Rick Potter
11-07-2012, 11:29 AM
Ha,

Michaels mention of French and Italian cars brings back memories.. I had a Fiat Multipla, the original minivan. Got it up to 50 MPH once.....going downhill. Lucas electrics made it totaly undependable.

Then I got a French Simca Aronde. Actually a nice car, except the column mounted shifter would lock up and you had to literally beat on it to get it back working. It also had an aluminum head, unusual for the time. It was slightly warped, and I had it milled as much as I could, then replaced head gaskets every three months for the next couple years.

Liked the two tone town and country horn though. Beep beep/HONK HONK. Oh yeah, it also had a timed turn signal. Always turned off before the light turned green.

Rick Potter

Mike Henderson
11-07-2012, 1:22 PM
Ha,

Michaels mention of French and Italian cars brings back memories.. I had a Fiat Multipla, the original minivan. Got it up to 50 MPH once.....going downhill. Lucas electrics made it totaly undependable.

Rick Potter

This is an old joke but just for those who haven't heard it:

Why do the the English drink warm beer?

Because they have Lucas refrigerators.

Mike

Stephen Cherry
11-07-2012, 2:35 PM
It's hard to believe that anyone would consider one of those their best purchace options when the yaris (echo, tercel), corolla, civic, etc have demonstrated over decades that they are reliable, cheap to buy, and hold their values well.

Wake up-

Anyway, maybe they have nice convenience features.

Mac McQuinn
11-07-2012, 3:02 PM
"Wake up-"?

I asked for feedback from Fiat 500 owners, Are you a owner? Have you every owned one?

Thanks for your input.

Mac



It's hard to believe that anyone would consider one of those their best purchace options when the yaris (echo, tercel), corolla, civic, etc have demonstrated over decades that they are reliable, cheap to buy, and hold their values well.

Wake up-

Anyway, maybe they have nice convenience features.

Stephen Cherry
11-07-2012, 3:14 PM
"Wake up-"?

I asked for feedback from Fiat 500 owners, Are you a owner? Have you every owned one?

Thanks for your input.

Mac


Llittle touchy, aren't we. Sorry for expressing my view in a discussion forum, why don't you go ahead and get one?

glenn bradley
11-07-2012, 3:47 PM
F Fix
I It
A Again
T Tony

I was wondering why no one had pointed out the obvious . . . its a Fiat. JMHO, I've known people who have owned Fiats. Ever notice how many old ones are still on the road providing reliable service? . . . that was a joke . . . On the other hand if you are just getting it for fun, they are awful cute.

Mac McQuinn
11-07-2012, 3:57 PM
The car interests me and I'm trying to determine if there's any ownership issues....before purchasing. Forum input is fine, being told to "Wake up-" because I'm considering making a purchase base on my priorities, not theirs is another story. BTW I've owned (5) Toyotas and have (2) parked in the garage presently.
Mac


Llittle touchy, aren't we. Sorry for expressing my view in a discussion forum, why don't you go ahead and get one?

Stephen Cherry
11-07-2012, 4:25 PM
The car interests me and I'm trying to determine if there's any ownership issues....before purchasing. Forum input is fine, being told to "Wake up-" because I'm considering making a purchase base on my priorities, not theirs is another story. BTW I've owned (5) Toyotas and have (2) parked in the garage presently.
Mac


Mac- it could be that since you have had toyotas, you are not accumstomed to the euro repairs. I've had a bunch of toyotas, and got used to zero failures. My present car is a bmw 540 6 speed, and while it can be fun to drive, it needs a lot of stupid repairs. For example the power steering pump falling off, requiring a new 400 dollar pump, and a 200 dollar tow. The radiator falling apart, the water pump, etc. And on and on and on. I fix my own cars, so it's not as bad, but if you couldn't, it would be uneconomical. This causes the resale values to plummet. Volkswagen-Audi and MB are even worse. And these are considered to be best of the euro cars. Fiat will have similar suppliers, and I would expect similar or worse repair needs.

I'm sure I could have phrased this in a better way, but the point I was trying to make is that there are proven reliable cars out there.

Mac McQuinn
11-07-2012, 8:28 PM
Can't speak for the BMW cars although have owned several of their motorcycles and wasn't overly impressed. I've owned two new VW's, one was great for 81K, one wasn't. One new Volvo 240, lots of maintenance although only one small repair over 106k. While my Toyotas purchased new in the 1970's were trouble free, my last (2) have had some small issues. I was responsible for a 250 vehicle fleet when retiring and I tend to look at cars differently than the norm. Once under them, I look at maintenance accessibility, welds, body seam sealer, etc.

With the global manufacturing base, I felt the new Fiat 500 might be a lot different than the older Fiats, imported years ago. I believe they're assembled in Mexico at a Chrysler plant, engine from USA, auto trans from Japan and manual from Italy. I feel there's a bit of pressure to perform well in the U.S. with their connection with Chrysler.

I'm 80 miles from nearest Fiat dealer so need to do my due diligence before purchasing. I'd rather buy a manual transmission to gain the most from those 101 ponies although have a old ankle injury which has come back to haunt me. The take up point on the clutch needs to be just right or things become miserable. My Tacoma has a manual and I have to wear a brace when driving due to it's late take-up point. Everything is a gamble, hopefully my research makes it at least a calculated one, although in the end, it's somewhat a leap of faith.
Mac

Kent A Bathurst
11-07-2012, 9:18 PM
Drive a Mini too. Heck there are a whole host of mini/micro car options in this price range now.

I had the pleasure of driving a Mini S and it was a pleasure to drive. Tight handling, could turn a circle around a pop can, and a good amount of power for a small car (but really could have used more, but then again is there ever enough?.)

Our S go-kart has the stick. I dunno about needing more power - 175 hp does great with that stick, but then, I am the type of guy that pretty much ignores the speedo and drives the tach + torque curve. Unless the wife is in the car [it's her car], in which case I do not drive - I get too much grief about how I drive her baby. But, when she ain't with me...................just ride the torque curve, dude, and keep stirring that mixer handle...............

You can always go to an aftermarket tuner guy, and get it up to 210+ or so...............but with the FWD, the torque steer would start to get out of hand.

Greg Portland
11-08-2012, 1:07 PM
With the global manufacturing base, I felt the new Fiat 500 might be a lot different than the older Fiats, imported years ago. I believe they're assembled in Mexico at a Chrysler plant, engine from USA, auto trans from Japan and manual from Italy. I feel there's a bit of pressure to perform well in the U.S. with their connection with Chrysler.

Mac, I think it boils down to the fact that this is a new model in the U.S. and people simply haven't put the miles on them yet to see any pattern of failure. Maybe it's the best thing on wheels, maybe it's a complete lemon (from an engineering POV). Historically Fiat has had lots of problems. People are just suggesting that you factor that into your decision (along with driving feel, cost, looks, etc.).

My wife's uncle has one (Fiat 500) and has put ~10k miles on it with no complaints.

Graham Wintersgill
11-08-2012, 1:58 PM
Mac

They have been out in Europe for a number of years. They are built in Poland and the same floor plan and major components are used by the Ford in the Ka. A casual look through some UK forums suggests that there are no major suprises and maintenance seems fairly routine.

Regards

Graham

Mac McQuinn
11-08-2012, 2:47 PM
Graham,
I was aware of the European models, wasn't sure where the manufacturing plant was though. My guess is the proximity to the U.S. along with an established plant owned by Chrysler made Mexico a good option for U.S. bound models. No knowledge of the Ford Ka., can you elaborate?
Thanks, Mac



Mac

They have been out in Europe for a number of years. They are built in Poland and the same floor plan and major components are used by the Ford in the Ka. A casual look through some UK forums suggests that there are no major suprises and maintenance seems fairly routine.

Regards

Graham

Mac McQuinn
11-08-2012, 3:06 PM
Greg,
I'm not too concerned about the basic design which has been out since 2007 in Europe and seems to be a solid piece. While the U.S. models built in Mexico are closing in on two years of production, I wanted to determine if there's any quality control issues. It sounds as if there are Rental vehicles out there which may have an above average amount of miles on them, hopefully the people who've rented them will relay their experiences.
Thanks for the good feedback on your wife's Uncles's 500, There were a few tweaks on the 2013's which leads me to believe Fiat is watching things carefully.

Mac




Mac, I think it boils down to the fact that this is a new model in the U.S. and people simply haven't put the miles on them yet to see any pattern of failure. Maybe it's the best thing on wheels, maybe it's a complete lemon (from an engineering POV). Historically Fiat has had lots of problems. People are just suggesting that you factor that into your decision (along with driving feel, cost, looks, etc.).

My wife's uncle has one (Fiat 500) and has put ~10k miles on it with no complaints.

Larry Edgerton
11-08-2012, 5:33 PM
Mac, If you get one and come up North with it come and take me for a spin. I kept looking at that one in Petoskey every day on my way to the job site. Very cool but I resisted. It had that huge sunroof. Love tiny cars. Its like a Smart that's not ugly.

Once in a while my wife lets me drive her Mazda Speed3, way more fun than my truck! But not very often as I have a hard time behaving.;)

Larry

Kent A Bathurst
11-08-2012, 6:09 PM
This is an old joke but just for those who haven't heard it:

Why do the the English drink warm beer?

Because they have Lucas refrigerators.

Mike

Mike..............

I had a couple frat brothers/roommates/fellow miscreants that were fans of British Leyland stuff. TR6, MGB, you know the drill. Impressive tool sets between the two of them.........that's the only way they could ever drive those things. I owe them a debt of gratitude - I learned how to double-clutch driving their cars, due to the 10,001 mile 2d gear synchro all of them came with [10k warranty, of course].

In honor of Joseph Lucas, The Prince of Darkness........



The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."
Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.
Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.
Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.
The three position Lucas switch - Dim, Flicker and Off.
The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.
Lucas is an acronym for Loose Unsoldered Connections and Splices
and so on...................

Bob Turkovich
11-08-2012, 7:00 PM
Mac,

PM sent.

Graham Wintersgill
11-08-2012, 7:13 PM
Mac

Platform sharing is quite common in Europe, the Citreon C1, Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo all share the same floor plan.

The Ford Ka is European Ford's smallest car and can be seen here http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Ka/Design

Ford improved the rear suspension for a softer ride and then Fiat adopted that change.

Independent review here http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/fiat/500-2007/

and this page http://www.fiatforum.com/500-guides/ has some guides and videos about maintenance upgrades.

Anything else let me know.

Graham

Jim Matthews
11-09-2012, 7:30 AM
The Mini seems to have very high resale value.
That says something about both demand and build quality.

If something small, easy to park and entertaining to drive is what you seek, have you looked at the new Ford models?
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-is-certified-at-620-miles-of-range/

If that doesn't confuse matters much, the build quality of the entry level VWs is exceptional - much improved since the Hungarian plant opened.

Full disclosure - my wife drives a 2007 Eos with the VR6. It's awesome. I'm allowed to clean it, if I don't fog the windows.

Rick Potter
11-10-2012, 1:37 AM
Don't want to steal the thread, I have been thinking about a 500 also, but kinda got sidetracked looking at a Scion IQ.

IQ, get it, it's a 'Smart' car. Anyway, it has a bit more room in it, but it has a CVT, which I doubt I will like.

Rick Potter

Graham Wintersgill
11-10-2012, 7:14 AM
I have a manual IQ. Smashing little car with lots of room for 2 or sometimes 3 and very economical. Are the CVT ratios not locked?

Graham

Mac McQuinn
11-10-2012, 9:06 AM
Graham,
Thanks for the links, Lot of interesting material here.

Mac


Mac

Platform sharing is quite common in Europe, the Citreon C1, Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo all share the same floor plan.

The Ford Ka is European Ford's smallest car and can be seen here http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/Ka/Design

Ford improved the rear suspension for a softer ride and then Fiat adopted that change.

Independent review here http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/fiat/500-2007/

and this page http://www.fiatforum.com/500-guides/ has some guides and videos about maintenance upgrades.

Anything else let me know.

Graham

Richard Shaefer
11-10-2012, 9:44 PM
My cousin recently bought a base model 500 with a stick. I did not expect much when he brought it over to my house, but I have to admit that the interior quality is well above par. I'd put it on the same level as an Audi. It's also rather roomy inside and it handles well. It is rather loud on the highway, but if you do a lot of high speed highway driving, a short wheelbase city car is a bad fit for you, anyway. All in all, I think it's probably the nicest design quality car you can get for the money.