Infill plane - done at last!

[Juan Hovey]

Hello, everyone. Am attaching pix of my latest infill plane, finished except for final tuning after four weeks of work. The lovely cap screw is the work of George Wilson, and the 1 3/4-inch iron is by Ron Hock, but everything else I did by hand. The steel sides are double-dovetailed into the base, and the infill is spalted yellow pashaco, a Peruvian species sometimes coveted by luthiers, I'm told. My friend Kevin Manville, who makes really fine furniture here in Santa Maria, CA, gave me the wood in exchange for a promise to make him a plane - an offer I couldn't refuse.

This is I think the tenth plane I've made in the last six months and the first that pleases me. (Kevin will get the eleventh.)

I showed the eighth and ninth planes at the big woodworking show in Pasadena last month and came home with some valuable input, particularly from Yeung Chan, who told me that the design of those two planes didn't hang together. "Do you see a line or curve in one or the other of your planes that you like?" he asked, suggesting that I come up with a new design centered on that line or curve.

It happened that I really liked the line of the horn of the planes, and when I got home - somewhat chastened by the knowledge that I had gone to the Pasadena show despite the fact that I wasn't ready for prime time - I set to work playing with that line.

This plane is the result. I am eager for input from one and all, so please let me know what you think, whether good or bad.

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[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I think it's cool. I'm not sold on the front curve of the bun, but that's a personal aesthetic choice - it looks very well executed, and I think it looks like it'd actually be very comfortable. I think aesthetically I'd like to see it taper a bit in two directions, but that might just look awkward, and probably not be as comfortable.

The back handle, there's that bit of a break in the curve just below the upper horn - looks like maybe you used a drill to start the rough shaping and then didn't blend the curve all the way in? That detracts a bit for me. This is a thing I've done on multiple occasions though. Easy to do, bugs me every time. You can easily get into a situation where if you try and blend more something else is going to look off.

I think I'd like to see the handle blend in a bit more into the steel where it meets the base, or be a little a more rounded and separated.

Something about the curve along the body edge down from where lever cap goes to the rear where the handle meets is just a little off to me - it almost hesitates at some point? I think you could lay out something a little more pleasing there, but it could also just be the angles the photos are taken at. The final little cove and transition in and out at the handle end are really nice though, and the transition in the horizontal direction between the handle and the wider stock of the body looks great. I know from similar joints that can be a tough one to nail.

The laminated pinstriping is actually really tastefully done - I've seen enough guitars with this effect to know that it can go very ugly. The wood choice is beautiful too.

Given the choice, I'd probably choose something more "traditional" looking, but that's just my personal style - this is looking very good. None of my comments are meant as insults, and I doubt I could pull this off as well as you. I just figure posting something like "great job" doesn't really tell you anything. You've obviously gotten the technical aspects down really well. Trying to go from there into a different design direction is where things can get hard, regardless of the project. If that's a direction you really want to go in, I'd experiment with mockups in easier to work materials, be it clay or foam or cardboard or some combination or whatever. (Not saying that you don't) Drawing is helpful, but sometimes there's just something about three dimensions that helps immensely. Then you just leave it and look at it for days as you work on something else, and take a little here and there until you think you've got it perfect. ( Then you build the real one and you still haven't scratched that itch just right and the next one starts . .. )

Regardless, I think this is cool, and congrats on chasing something you're obviously passionate about. If any of my tools looked half as good, maybe I'd be inspired to work more.

[Juan Hovey]

I think it's cool. I'm not sold on the front curve of the bun, but that's a personal aesthetic choice - it looks very well executed, and I think it looks like it'd actually be very comfortable. I think aesthetically I'd like to see it taper a bit in two directions, but that might just look awkward, and probably not be as comfortable.

The back handle, there's that bit of a break in the curve just below the upper horn - looks like maybe you used a drill to start the rough shaping and then didn't blend the curve all the way in? That detracts a bit for me. This is a thing I've done on multiple occasions though. Easy to do, bugs me every time. You can easily get into a situation where if you try and blend more something else is going to look off.

I think I'd like to see the handle blend in a bit more into the steel where it meets the base, or be a little a more rounded and separated.

Something about the curve along the body edge down from where lever cap goes to the rear where the handle meets is just a little off to me - it almost hesitates at some point? I think you could lay out something a little more pleasing there, but it could also just be the angles the photos are taken at. The final little cove and transition in and out at the handle end are really nice though, and the transition in the horizontal direction between the handle and the wider stock of the body looks great. I know from similar joints that can be a tough one to nail.

The laminated pinstriping is actually really tastefully done - I've seen enough guitars with this effect to know that it can go very ugly. The wood choice is beautiful too.

Given the choice, I'd probably choose something more "traditional" looking, but that's just my personal style - this is looking very good. None of my comments are meant as insults, and I doubt I could pull this off as well as you. I just figure posting something like "great job" doesn't really tell you anything. You've obviously gotten the technical aspects down really well. Trying to go from there into a different design direction is where things can get hard, regardless of the project. If that's a direction you really want to go in, I'd experiment with mockups in easier to work materials, be it clay or foam or cardboard or some combination or whatever. (Not saying that you don't) Drawing is helpful, but sometimes there's just something about three dimensions that helps immensely. Then you just leave it and look at it for days as you work on something else, and take a little here and there until you think you've got it perfect. ( Then you build the real one and you still haven't scratched that itch just right and the next one starts . .. )

Regardless, I think this is cool, and congrats on chasing something you're obviously passionate about. If any of my tools looked half as good, maybe I'd be inspired to work more.

Joshua - Wow. Many thanks. You put lots of the thought into your reply.

1. Tell me more about how you might shape the front bun. How would you taper it in two directions? Which directions?

2. You're right about the tote. I did use a drill and cut it too close to my template. My choice at that point was to push the front of the tote out a bit, so as to keep the distance between front and back more or less equal up and down the length of the tote, but I worried that doing so might throw off the looks of the thing. So I punted. It won't happen again, I hope.

3. Not sure what you have in mind regarding the junction of the tote and the rest of the infill. How blend in? If by "a little more rounded" you mean the straight line across the curve at the rear of the tote where it starts sloping forward into the rear of the infill, I couldn't quite figure out how to do that without messing up everything else. I wanted the curve at the bottom of the tote, in the rear, to reflect the curve of the infill adjacent to the sides of the infill, where it rises from the base to meet the greater part of the infill - wanted those two curves to reflect each other, as though the tote were rising out of a cup of sorts.

4. The lamination bisecting the infill is maple and bubinga, arranged so that the grain countered the grain of the pashaco amarillo, for structural reasons; the spalting in this wood is quite advanced, weakening the wood so severely that the tote would break the first time one tried to use it without laminating something into its middle.

5. For reasons unclear to my murky psyche, I can hardly bring myself to make anything more illuminating than a very rough SketchUp drawing when I start a project, much less a mock-up in cardboard, foam, or what have you. I wasn't born with the virtue of foresight; at best, as I work a project, I can see only three things - first, the thing itself, hovering off in the distance, alluring and perfect in every way despite the fact that it is I who seek to make it, second, the next step I must take in making the thing, once I come to a stopping point, and third, the countless opportunities I will have to screw things up royally in taking that step and the next and the next. There must be a caring God, don't you think? I mean, otherwise, how could it actually turn out that I manage somehow not to seize upon each and every one of those opportunities and, mirabilu dictu, on occasion produce something worth looking at?

[Chris Griggs]

Cool plane. Kudos for breaking the mold and going with your own design. Looks really nice.

Like Josh there is part of me that is drawn to a more traditional look, but again, I think its really cool that you broke from the mold an designed you own.

I do agree with Josh about the front bun. The curve look a bit extreme to me, but the question is, is it comfortable? Its your plane and you want it to work well in you hand so if that shaping on the front works for you than keep using it. Personally I think it would look nicer though by just decreasing that inward curve on the front - again it just looks a bit extreme, and I think something more subtle would fit with the long graceful curves of the body better.

Again really cool plane!

[David Weaver]

It is a nice improvement in design over the one on ron hock's page.

The one thing I would do first is to move the lever cap further down toward the mouth of the plane. The cap screw shouldn't contact the cap iron too much above the top of the blade bed, and the front edge provides better support the closer it is to the cutting edge - as long as it doesn't get close enough to impede shavings.

[Chris Griggs]

It is a nice improvement in design over the one on ron hock's page.


Dave, do you have a link to this? I'd be curious to see what you are referring too.

[Rodney Walker]

I like the lamination for just the reason you did it. Short grain is an issue in even solid stable wood as countless Stanley planes can show you. The cross grain lamination solves that problem nicely. Beautiful wood and workmanship on the plane overall.
Without actually holding it I really can't tell, but the tote does look a little thin front to back for comfort. It looks to me like it could have used a little more wood on the back. As long as it fits your hand that doesn't matter.
It is certainly far nicer than any tool I've made.
Rodney

[David Weaver]

Dave, do you have a link to this? I'd be curious to see what you are referring too.

I swear I saw some of Juan's stuff on Hock's page (either the regular page or the blog) but now I can't find them. Nevertheless, he's made big strides in a short period of time.

Everything is incremental, at least to me it is (maybe george hits the mark the first time quite often). Positive progress is good, and in my tool a year slow-as frozen boogers shop, things like "tenth plane in the last 6 months" are totally foreign. Holy cow.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Juan

First of all, that is sterling work. The metal work looks first class. I couldn't do better. The shaping has a very nice line.

It is the woodwork that is an issue for me. Fortunately, this is easy to change (if you agree with my comments).

My concerns are with the handle and knob, plus the support for the blade. The handle is on the thin side, and its profile makes it look like you would be holding a stick (my first infill handle was the same!). There needs to be more meat in the lower half. The blade would be better supported if the wooden bed came up higher than the lever cap screw. The front knob looks like it angles too far forward, with the result that leverage is no longer over the toe/mouth, plus you are stretching forward more, and I imagine control will be lost. A more upright knob would avoid these pitfalls.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Juan,I was wondering how the show went for you. I agree with Derek that your dovetailing is excellent. It was a pleasure doing business with you,and getting to know you.

I am in exactly the opposite camp when it comes to design. I find that it is nearly impossible for me to "have any fun". For example,I went out to the shop just to have some fun. I'll make a little brass cannon!! Whoa!!!!! What if the barrel is too front heavy and droops down rather than resting breech heavy upon the carriage? What if it is so muzzle heavy that it tips forward even when resting on the carriage? I can't just make a fantasy gun or it will look stupid!! Then,I end up making a rather careful drawing,and figuring out exactly where all moldings and steps in the barrel should be to look correct. I make sure there is more mass behind the trunnions. Then,I have to carefully make the trunnions,and carefully drill,thread,and counterbore them into the barrel so they don't blow out when the gun is fired. What If I do it wrong and the gun gets into other hands and someone gets hurt if it blows up? I could get sued,as I WAS planning to give the gun as a Christmas gift.

All these things got in the way of "just having fun". Then,it's planning,planning,planning,and scads of measurements and proportions. I just CANNOT have any FUN,and I wish I could.

I'm not even sure what I'm trying to get across here,but I have too much work invested in studying classical proportions to just go out there and do it. I do end up with something that is my design,but it has to have a certain "rightness" about it. And,that comes from looking at hundreds of original works over many years. Endless hours of research and study.

For this reason,I have much admired the LV NX 60 block plane I have. Whoever designed it pulled a completely new design out of the air,yet mixed with certain classical elements,and the whole thing hung together. I think it looks like a Duesenberg for some reason. Not sure why,but it's there.

I guess I'm saying study,study,study,then with all that information in your head,try to create something that is yours,but still hangs together. That is what is HARD to do,harder than just sheer craftsmanship.

Another thing that is hard to do when starting out,is to figure out WHAT old designs ARE good. A lot of them are BAD,even if they are widely accepted. The rather modernized( Art Deco'ed) handles of Norris planes are just too angular,for example. Some handles are too EXTREME. There are lots of pitfalls even in studying supposed old masterpieces. Taste is the hardest thing there is to come by.


Now,as to your plane: I find the handle too tall and skinny,with not enough curve in it for the palm. The handle curves up from the metal in a strange sort of way. I don't care for the "notch" just under the top. The front tote is too forward flaring,but,if done right,the tucking under of the front part could work and be yours.

I don't care for the wood myself,but I just don't like spalting myself. It looks like something that cheap,Mexican "tourist grade" guitars would be made from.( I HOPE NO ONE TAKES THIS AS A RACIAL REMARK. I've seen such guitars,and am 1/8 Spanish myself.) Others may love it. I just don't. Spalting is a rotting of the wood which I don't care for. The center lamination could work just as it is,though it isn't something I would do(but that doesn't make it wrong to do).

As for the body shape,I will offer this advice: If you are going to have a curved line,make it curved. If straight,make it dead straight. Don't stretch out a curved line until it is nearly straight. It is weak. I learned these things from a real master sculptor,and it really set me on course,though even in college I was already pretty skillful as a technician. He kicked my rear end every day,and told me how stupid I was,but I hung in there because I had enough sense to SEE that this guy had the goods to teach me. He really was arrogant,and most wouldn't have been able to put up with his daily dose!! It wasn't arrogance if he could deliver the goods,though. I had come from nearly nothing as a youth(as far as art was concerned,I didn't get it at home,or even any encouragement),and needed this learning and direction. I spent every spare hour I could in his studio.

He said: "If you're going to be a good guy,be really good. If you're going to be bad,be really bad". He was talking about a chisel handle I had made which was a square with rounded edges in cross section,and was neither round,square,or oval. It clicked in my head what he meant. The Bible says that God doesn't want "luke warm" people. More or less the same advice from thousands of years ago!!

Here are some things I have made. I'll criticize them as they were made a long time ago. The shoulder plane has no flat spots in the curves. The filling is good. It looks like marshmallow squeezed between layers of bread. Nothing wrong here,except over the years a screw has shown up from wood movement. The smooth plane's handle is rather TOO curvy,but,the shape of the metal body is fine. Definite curves,and definite straight lines. The way the metal comes up the sides of the front of the bun is unique. I haven't seen it on old planes. The only thing that could go wrong is if the wood in the bun shrank,exposing sharp edges of the metal,but the wood was good and dry,and didn't shrink. I made the top of the tote too delicate and easy to break. I stained the wood too dark,and wish I hadn't. The cap screw is too thick on the sides,and I'd now make it more stacked up,and thin down the knurled (hand filed) edges so they aren't so tall. This was from 1974,and I was learning,just came in from the modern World to a museum setting in 1970. The Drill is fine,except I really should re make the large handle and eliminate the wooden ball. The crank handle is good. A nice,positive flare,and good,sculpted shape showing good movement. The small steel ball is in good proportion there,and has a hole through it for inserting a "tommy bar" to remove the handle. The frame follows the shape of the large gear. The large gear has a nice,"stacked up" design to it which gives the shape 3 dimensional depth,not just a flat gear as is usual. The flare in the chuck looks right,and gives a positive terminus to the bottom of the frame. I need to get rid of the projecting 2 screws that hold the handle on,and make them flush. The small metal balls on the handles and the thumbscrew give continuum
to the overall design.

The wax seals are much later work,and I know more. Note that they are NOT the same. I like to be creative. Look for the little differences. The bulbous flares in the brass are better designed than earlier work. The solid water buffalo horn handles flare out nicely,with small,pleasing details that do not detract the eye from the shape. There are definite flat spots with crisp edges on the sides of the handles. The only proper alternative would have been a proper,completely oval cross section for the handles. The flats are definite,however,and are fine,keeping the wax seals from rolling off the desk. I would now take the handle from the one in the front and put it on the brass in the one on the rear. Those parts are the best ones.

Summary: I could have done a few things better on the smooth plane,and on the handle of the drill. The important thing is,I KNOW what is wrong with them,and that means I never repeated these errors. THAT is the thing to strive for.

The fact of the matter is: Most people who see your planes are going to have NO idea about the design one way or the other. The important thing is to learn better yourself,so that the small percentage who do understand will know it's good work. This is not a snobbish thing to say,it is simply the truth. Most people do not make things,anyway,and only a small percent of those who do make good work.

Hopefully this makes sense to you,and is meant to be helpful if you can see that it is.

[Stew Hagerty]

I showed the eighth and ninth planes at the big woodworking show in Pasadena last month and came home with some valuable input, particularly from Yeung Chan, who told me that the design of those two planes didn't hang together. "Do you see a line or curve in one or the other of your planes that you like?" he asked, suggesting that I come up with a new design centered on that line or curve.

What a beautiful plane. You should be very proud, it is truely a work of art.

As for lines... I do see some similarities to these:

1935 Auburn 851 Boattail Speedster
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1935 Duesenberg SJ Mormon Meteor Speedster
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1935 Duesenberg SSJ
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1938 Phantom Corsair
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[Mel Fulks]

Interesting and appreciated observations,George. I agree with much of it. The "rightness" of design is always is always a concern of mine ,too. But you know those sensibilities can not be the same for all, even among those who admire the same models. It is important for anyone seeking guidance to understand that creativity has to be intuitive and personal. Even "Palladian" buildings are usually combinations of passionately competing Renaissance architects who all had their own ideas of correct design principles. Vitruvius wrote he was influenced by earlier work,Palladio wrote he had studied Vitruvious, and many of the 18th century building manual authors started their books by saying they admired Palladio,but modern building in a place colder than Italy called for some changes. We can only wonder what will be considered great,a hundred years from now. To those of us older guys images of Marylyn Monroe are still beautiful but our sons can't see it and think see needed some gym visits.

[george wilson]

Actually,in some of her later movies,Marilyn Monroe could have used some gym time!! Certainly started out with a beautiful figure!!!

Infill planes today are sort of an homage to the past,so I think elements of classical design are applicable here.

[Stew Hagerty]

The Drill is fine,except I really should re make the large handle and eliminate the wooden ball. The crank handle is good. A nice,positive flare,and good,sculpted shape showing good movement. The small steel ball is in good proportion there,and has a hole through it for inserting a "tommy bar" to remove the handle. The frame follows the shape of the large gear. The large gear has a nice,"stacked up" design to it which gives the shape 3 dimensional depth,not just a flat gear as is usual. The flare in the chuck looks right,and gives a positive terminus to the bottom of the frame. I need to get rid of the projecting 2 screws that hold the handle on,and make them flush. The small metal balls on the handles and the thumbscrew give continuumto the overall design.

George,

All of your work is beautiful. I have to say though, I really love your drill. It has a sort of Victorian look I think. It is very elegant, without appearing less of a "Tool". Absolutely wonderful!

By the way... You mentioned Duesenbergs. I hope you read my previous post.

[Juan Hovey]

Gents - Wow again. I want to respond in detail but must spend the day tuning the plane you've been discussing and working on its fraternal twin. Meantime, here's a photo of the sixth and seventh planes I made, with an infill of black acacia, plus one of the photos featured in Ron Hock's newsletter showing me working with plane No. 2, some months back. I think the infill in that plane was myrtle, though I can't be sure as I picked it up at a garage sale. Later today I'll photograph and post one of the two planes I took to Pasadena as well. Meanwhile, many thanks for your thoughtful responses.
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[Mel Fulks]

You are doing good work and have gotten some good advice here. Someday the plane will be a cherished example of your "early work " .I think you are going to get more wood for plane offers than you want!

[george wilson]

The last 2 infills look better,Juan,except for the cap screws!!:)

[Matthew N. Masail]

Too much to say and not enough time... I'll just say that I think it's really great, and maybe important that your looking for your own design. I am much more attracted to something like that with a obviously personal touch, it seems to me you just need to get the proportional sense right. I think I like your No.2 better than the new one, the tote look more inviting to me.