Not to beat a dead horse, but I could use some jointer/planer combo advice.....

[Jerry Prinds]

Been searching around for some advice, but the threads seem to be older, so I thought I'd see if I can get some updated advice.........

All trends seem to be leaning towards spiral cutter heads, but I'm not sure the cost diff. is worth it. I used a Shopsmith planer for years, and I was pretty satisfied with the results, so there lies my confusion about the spirals.

The Jet JJP-12 seems to be a pretty good machine - all reviews are pretty much positive. I cannot justify the cost diff in going with the HH model, though.

However, Grizzly has a relatively new model with spirals for almost the same price. Here's a link:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Planer-Jointer-with-Spiral-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0634XP

Really, the only diff in price is with shipping with the Grizzly, you just can't get past it. I live close enough to Springfield that I could go down and pick one up directly, but then I'm hit with sales tax, so it's a wash.

Just for reference, I've got a GI 24" double drum sander in the shop for fine sanding.

To me, the benefit of the Jet is the one-piece table, and not having to remove the fence when changing from jointer to planer, but is that offset by the Grizzly's spiral cutter head?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[ian maybury]

They all seem to be pushing spiral heads these days.

One thought I've not seen mentioned relates to situations where maybe you might want to pop in a set of old blades for rough work. (e.g. facing/knocking the varnish off reclaimed wood)

The likes of Tersa or the Felder quick change equivalent knives makes this the work of a few minutes. I'm not sure what the position is with a spiral. Is it for example the case that they are subject to expensive damage, or do they cut through stuff that will blunt conventional knives?

ian

[David Kumm]

Spiral heads are great and worth the money- unless running high end machines. A jointer planer combination has other more important considerations IMO. You need a machine that flips the tables and returns them exactly parallel every time, locks them down without moving them, and has a fence that returns to exactly 90 each time. If the machine doesn't do that consistently the type of cutterhead becomes irrelevant. I would always buy a better quality machine with a straight head than a lower one with a spiral- particularly in a combo J-P. Dave

[Jerry Prinds]

Good advice, Dave.

So does that imply that the Jet is a better machine than the Grizzly, IYO?

[David Kumm]

I can't vouch for either as I've not used them but read about complaints over the years. Even the minimax and lighter duty Felders can have issues. I would consider a combo only if the space issue was critical and then would be inclined to stay with either MM or Felder-Hammer as they are known for more precise machines. I'd probably buy a nice used Felder 700 or MM but I generally prefer used industrial over new hobby. Dave

[Ralph Butts]

+1 on Dave's comments. I have several Grizz machines and I am not a Grizz basher. They are what they are. They offer a value at a specific price point. I looked at the Jet model you mentioned but purchased a Hammer A3 41 as my final choice. For me returning the table to square and not having to remove the fence as a part of the conversion process were very important factors for me. I believe the Jet machine does not require the fence to be removed to convert but the Grizz model does require the fence to be removed. When I started my research FWW had a comparison article on entry level J/P combos. The Grizz (older fence model) was given a top choice selection for value. I personally like the new fence design for the Grizz but the requirement to remove the fence for conversion along with the Hammer feature that moves both tables during the conversion process were key considerations for me. The Jet also moves both tables simultaneously. I ultimately went with a bigger machine than the 12" models you are looking at. The spiral head IMO was worth every penny in my decision. There are differences between the designs of the machines and you will find a lot of opinions about those design features here. With respect to quality of construction and fabrication that is a can of worms I won't even open. If you are close to Springfield take a trip to Grizz and kick the tires. I would recommend you do the same with the other model you are looking at and determine which features are must have and which ones are nice to have for you.

[David Kumm]

It does seem that the 16" machines are less prone to problems than the 12" in the Euro market. Dave

[Ralph Butts]

Dave I think I would tend to agree with both of your points but neither of the machines that Jerry mentioned are in the price range that would allow for a used Felder purchase. The only used Hammer A3's I have seen available were by 2 members here at the creek over the past 12-18 months. I don't know what to make of that but I just haven't see too many of those available in the pre-owned market.

[David Kumm]

Ralph, you are likely correct in that I don't follow that market a lot. I have seen MM 14" JP- FS35 maybe- for about that range. They were a nice machine. Hammer machines are newer and newer are better than the older ones so I would hesitate on the blue ones. I'm just afraid of the low end JP in comparison to separates. Dave

[Ralph Butts]

Dave I had that same concern. I sold my separates due to space considerations. I had no other option at the time. If space had not driven my decision I would still own separates today. I finally decided that my budget could not afford to grow any larger than the A3 41 with spiral head. My original budget placed me in the same range as the machines Jerry is looking at. After a lot of advice here in the forum and even more research on my own I waited to purchase until I could increase my budget. I still wish I could have afforded a Felder power drive unit but as a hobbiest that just was not in the cards for me. All that being said I think Jerry is looking and asking the right questions in the range of machine that he is looking at.

At the risk of highjacking the thread there is a difference between a $2500 machine family and a $6000 one. Consequently there is a difference between a $6000 machine and a $14,000 one. No names but I think everyone can read between the lines.

Jerry your concerns are some of the same ones I had during my search. I think the Jet is available with a Byrd head as well. If my budget has not grown I would have been looking at the same two machines you are now. My experience did not lead to anything in the used market in that range. It is because of the same concern in the lower end J/P market that Dave mentioned that lead me to change directions but if that option is not available those two models were in my final selections. Take a look at how solid the unit is and the fabrication materials. Pay special attention to the fence. The conversion was important to me but may not be as critical to you. For my $$'s the table lifting design on the Jet was important to me. By know means is that a knock on the Grizzly unit. I have several green machines and I am very happy with them.

[John Gornall]

The price of the Grizzly was kept down by supplying it with a spiral head that has only 32 widely spaced cutters.

Most 12" machines have 60 cutters.

This kept me from buying it at least until I get some really good references or hopefully get to try one.

I see Hammer now has spiral heads and I'll be checking them out.

[David Kumm]

I tried the Felder Silent Power at Atlanta and was impressed. I had not been a Hammer fan but the new machines are a value for the price point and the Silent power head may be even better than the Byrd. The inserts are numbered so you can keep track of which have been rotated, and the dust collection groove machined in the head is very effective for collection. The thing is quiet and does seem to use less power to cut than eithr the straight knife or the Byrd. I'd still buy the best constructed JP rather than the one with the spiral though. Dave

[Ralph Butts]

My unit has the Silent Power head and I was not disappointed. It is very quiet and smooth, smooth, smooth. Oh yeah did I say how smooth a finish it produces.

[mreza Salav]

Dave has given good advice. I have a MM 14" J/P with Tersa heads and have been quite happy with. They don't show up very often but can be had for about the same as a new 12" J/P.

[Bas Pluim]

I have the Jet JJP-12HH. I looked extensively at the G0634Z before buying it (the G0634XP wasn't available at the time). Note that I'm a big fan of Grizzly (I have a table saw and band saw of the green variety). Ultimately, I decided on the Jet for the following reasons:


Space: The G0634Z was 41" deep, the Jet 34".
Grizzly fence had to be removed before planing, and it's always tough to find open space in the shop
56 carbide cutters on the Jet, 32 on the G0634Z

I wanted a combo machine to save space, so (1) and (2) were important. The G0634XP has the newer style fence and is only 24" deep, which is a big plus.

Jet frequently has sales, and there is more wiggle room than on Grizzly equipment (Grizzly prices its tools very competitively year round). At the time I bought mine, the list price for the JJP-12HH was $3100. I ended up getting it for $2550 delivered with lift gate service. I'm not sure that's still an option, but I think it's feasible to get the Jet for $2700 - $2800 shipped.

I have not come across any complaints about the Grizzly tables not staying in alignment or the fence not locking square when replacing it.

Is the helical head worth the money? Absolutely. Even if you don't factor in the zero tear-out on wildly figured wood and eliminating the headaches of setting the jointer knives, the carbide inserts lasts so long you'll recoup the money from not having to buy replacement knives. I'd get the Grizzly with helical head before I'd get the Jet with straight knives. I've seen a lot of forum posts about jointers & planers on the Creek, NCwoodworker, Woodnet, BT3Central, Lumberjocks etc., and I have NEVER seen a post where someone said "I wish I hadn't spend the money on the helical head".

The good news is that I don't think you can go wrong either way. If you get the Jet, you'll be happy. If you can't justify the extra $400, get the Grizzly, build a shelf out of some B/C plywood above the machine where you can stash the fence, and you'll be happy.

[Brad Olson]

FWIW, Grizzly released a polar bear version of its 12" J/P combo where the fence mounts to the table end so it takes up a lot less spaces than the model reviewed.

In theory, this model should also retain fence squareness when removed/replaced better than the center mount fence. Also fence removal/replacement on this model should be pretty straight forward. IMHO fence removal is a good idea as it makes it less likely to get damaged or knocked out of alignment during changeover. As long as fence removal/replacement is easy, this is a non-issue.

I personally think J/P combos are a great option for most shops, especially hobby shops. Complement it with an open ended drum sander and you should be able to handle most planing operations.

[Kelby Van Patten]

I think spiral cutterheads are absolutely worth it. As for the combo machine, I would agree that it makes sense only if you lack space. I had one for many years, and it got me by. But it was a hassle. Having separates is much nicer if you have the space.

[Curt Harms]

I have the straight knife Jet. I bought mine before helical heads became popular. It does what I expect it to do and knife life is very good as long as I don't try to plane or joint a nail :o. If you choose to go the shipping route you might also check with surplus sales and equipment in Auburn, WA. I bought mine there and got free shipping including residental liftgate service and it was drop shipped from the Jet warehouse in Tennessee. If you go Grizzly, I'd personally pick it up which I've done with my Grizzly machines. You get to 'kick the tires' and also pretty much eliminate any shipping damage risk. Plus it's the woodworker's version of FAO Schwartz toy store :D. You might also check on Hammer. They were running a sale where the Hammer 12" J/P for less than $1,000 more than Grizzly and Jet.

[John TenEyck]

FWIW, Grizzly released a polar bear version of its 12" J/P combo where the fence mounts to the table end so it takes up a lot less spaces than the model reviewed.

In theory, this model should also retain fence squareness when removed/replaced better than the center mount fence. Also fence removal/replacement on this model should be pretty straight forward. IMHO fence removal is a good idea as it makes it less likely to get damaged or knocked out of alignment during changeover. As long as fence removal/replacement is easy, this is a non-issue.

I personally think J/P combos are a great option for most shops, especially hobby shops. Complement it with an open ended drum sander and you should be able to handle most planing operations.

I agree, a J/P is a great option in a hobby shop where space is limited. I've had an Inca for more than 25 years and it has done everything I've ever needed. Yes, I'd like to have a honking big 20" planer, but I don't need one; it just takes a little longer. And you are also right that an open ended drum sander is a great compliment. With that combination you can do most anything. BTW, on the Inca, the outfeed table is removed for planing. I've never had an alignment problem with it in all these years. The design is so simple that not much could go wrong. Also, the fence stays on the machine at all times. Again, simple is good. I've thought about trying to find a spiral head for it, but have a hard time justifying what it will probably cost. I'm still using the two knife sets I got with the machine, and I've planed many thousands of BF with them. Sharpening and changing them only takes about 30 minutes. But if someone knows where I could get a spiral cutter head, I'd be interested. Thanks.

John