Jon Murphy
10-24-2012, 4:38 AM
Warning, this is going to be a long one <g>. I have recently rationalized my grinding setup for my lathe tools, my shop is in my bedroom so the space is limited. This posting is the result of over ten years of experimenting, and is triggered by a new product (there will be a shameless plug for Don Geiger's Vertical Solutions rig, but I have no connection with him other than as a customer).
For many years I used a slow/wet setup (a Jet equipped with Tormek jigs) and a six inch HS grinder for rough grinding. To save space I got a Woodcraft slow 8" to do it all. I replaced the wheels with a Norton 3X SG 80 (K hardness) and a 120 grit (J hardness, they don't have K in 120). I got the Wolverine system for one wheel and the Tormek "bench grinder" jig for the other - so I could use the Tormek jig for gouges. I also sprung for Don Geiger's True-N-Dress to balance and dress the wheels. I already had the SX 80 wheel, had been using it on a mandrel on my lathe.
Unsuccessful! The new J hardness 120 wouldn't round with the True-N-Dress (I contacted Don, and he recommended the K hardness, but try to find that in 120 grit - Norton had one, but it is now after market. I had my 80 grit K on the Tormek "bench rig" side. The vibration in that rig precludes a good dressing of the wheel (it's fine for the slow/wet at 90 rpm, but the 1700 rpm makes the dresser bounce with the flex in the arm). The tool also bounces a bit, and more as the wheel isn't truly even. I have seen some postings that like the Tormek rig on the bench grinder, but I disagree. I could go on with my experiments, but I think I've said enough on the negatives.
Solution! I now have my single setup that does it all for me. I canned the Tormek arm rig and put another Wolverine "receiver" on that wheel. I got Don Geiger's Vertical Solutions Pro Sharp 4X arm (a new product, more on that). I bought two new Norton 3X 80 grit K wheels. I bought fitted steel bushings to replace the "variable plastic bushings" supplied with the wheels (and that is a one time purchase, when I wear a wheel down I can reuse the bushing). I balanced the wheels horizontally (wobble) with "dot stickers" (a Geiger suggestion), then brought them to round with the True-N-Dress. I use the Wolverine original Vari Grind jig, and am able to shape and finish all my gouges with consistency.
The Why's:
Why two 80 grit wheels? I use home made Ellsworth style hollowing tools so to shape and sharpen the cutters I've rounded the shoulders of one wheel while the other is sharp shouldered. I find that the cool cutting of the 3X and the smooth surface from the T-N-D gives me the ability for a gentle or heavier cut, depending on my pressure. The K hardness is needed to get that smooth surface even with the T-N-D. I use the narrower flat of the round shouldered wheel for parting tools, etc. as I can keep the flat rest on that side.
Why the steel bushings? The supplied plastic layers of bushings are a bit soft so the initial balancing of the wheel is inconsistent, they are worth the investment. They allow one to really true the wheel - and therefore get a fine surface on the tools.
Why the True-N-Dress? A long term saving, the micro adjustment allows for a quick and true dressing of the wheel without much material removal. The solid foundation on the tool rest (providing the rest is solid - note my comments on the Tormek bench rig) not only dresses the wheel but also keeps it in true round. No hand held can be that steady. This is from experience, not Don's advertising. It allows me to use the larger grit and yet get an almost mirror finish.
Why the Geiger VS 4X? I had his original Vertical Solution arm, and it has a gauge to compensate for wheel wear (the shape of the hollow bevel changes as the wheel wears, as does the angle - the gauge allows an easy setup of the length of the arm and the height of the V-notch). The original VS is designed to use the Ellsworth jig, but can use the Wolverine Vari Grind. But it is limited. The 4X has a "peg" inserted into the V-notch with four specific "pinned" settings as to distance from the wheel. BTW, for those who already have the original VS there is an upgrade kit on his site, and for those who recently bought the original - and who have a facility with making things - Don might send you the peg and pin for a nominal price. I'll not speak for him, but I converted my original to the 4X by a bit of drilling and fitting.
Why the Vari Grind? The Vari Grind has an adjustable leg with seven positions (and fourteen if you treat the other side of the notch as a position, a bit more difficult to set as the angle is obtuse so the exact point is harder to read). I have found that to be plenty of variation to cover any grind. I have numbered the notches (with an etching tool) from 1 to 7 along the sharp edge (1 being closest to parallel with the tool shaft) and designate the "soft edge" of the notch as "+"). That way I can keep notes for my specific settings for my gouges. BTW, I do suggest softening the end of the Vari Grind arm to more of a radius than the square edge. With all due respect to my guru David Ellsworth I find I can do the Ellsworth grind on various sizes of gouges better with this setup than with his jig. His is designed for a 5/8" diameter bowl gouge, works for 1/2" with a bit of "tip high" angle, and is off a good bit with a 3/8" diameter gouge. The Vari Grind gives a consistent angle of the tool shaft in the jig. But that is important only for those, like myself, who like a small Ellsworth gouge for small turnings.
How about the skews and the others? I used jigs for them on my old Jet/Tormek system, my 77 year old hands aren't very accurate freehand, and not that good at adjusting the tool rest. Wolverine has its fixed arm that you can rest the handle of the tool in. Forget it. Use a flat tool rest and free hand on it. Another Geiger solution, but this one not for sale. All one needs is to have the tool rest at the right angle to the wheel, then hold the tool flat to the wheel. Problem is to get the "angle of the dangle". Simple solution, and credit it to Don. Spend a bit of time setting the tool rest for the bevel you want (using a tool you like and a Sharpie and hand turning the wheel). Then take a rectangular block of MDF and rest it on the rest and slide it up to the side of the wheel. Mark the curve of the wheel with a pencil, cut out the curve with a jig saw, then cut out the center of the curve so you have two points of contact. Now you have a gauge that will always set the angle of the tool to the wheel as you adjust the rest. You can pick a point for the arm, then adjust the angle of the rest to the guage. I finalize my gauges by coming back to the wheel (still set) and give a small grind on the MDF.
Now that I have the angle of the bevel set on the tool rest all I need to do for shaping a skew is to work it by hand. I do some radius skews and some Lacer style radius/straight combination skews. As I only have to move in one dimension I don't need any guiding jig, and I can shape to my taste. The same applies to roughing gouges and parting tools. The Wolverine arm to me is a waste, it is easier to control the tool on the rest than from the long arc of the arm.
Coming back to the Geiger VS 4X, Don's advertising suggests limits it doesn't have. Using the supplied 60 degree gauge (and the built in 2" tool extension gauge) one can set up a "nose" angle of 40, 50, 60 or 70 degrees by adjusting the peg to set points - and get an Ellsworth shape with either an Ellsworth jig or a Vari Grind set to the right angle - according to the ad. But with the Vari Grind that is not so. I have a list of settings for all my gouges, each a combination of Vari Grind leg angle and one of the four peg postions. I use the gauged arm distance and V-notch height setting for a 60 degree Ellsworth grind (takes about two minutes to set up the arm distance and height). Then set the peg for the variable distance, and the leg of the Vari Grind. That takes less than a minute. Now I have a repeatable grind for almost any shape.
Examples: Given the Ellsworth 60 degree setup (my Vari Grind at notch #4) and the peg on the "red" (60 degrees) I can make my Celtic grind 85 degree nose bevel gouge (used for the flats at the bottom of a wide closed bowl) by setting the peg at "blue" (70 degrees nominal) and the Vari Grind leg at #6+. I can go to my 45 degree nose Celtic by setting the peg at "red" (60 degrees nominal) and my Vari Grind at notch #3. Two examples are enough, but I'll mention that I do detail gouges to 30 degrees with a different side bevel and various others all by using this setup with different settings.
Summary: Nothing is perfect, but for me this setup is as close as I can get - given my space, my budget, and my needs. I have "wasted" a lot of money over a decade coming to this solution, I hope that my suggestions will be of help to those who have not yet found their best system. If I help anyone on the way my experiments haven't been a waste. My end result is the 8" slow dry grinder (I don't think a VS is needed, the extra speed would save time in reshaping, but not as much as one might think as the extra heat needs more "time out"). The Woodcraft works well for me. The Norton 3X SG wheels are cool and cut well, and true well. If I hit the lottery I might try the SG, but it is twice the price. K hardness trues well, lesser hardness not as much, and a finer grit may not give you a better finish if it doesn't true as well. The Wolverine base system is solid and versatile, but their long arm is relatively useless. The Geiger VS arm, and particularly the new VS Pro Sharp 4X, is expensive, but to me it has been worth the price for the ease of changing my setup. The Geiger True-N-Dress is also worth it in the long run, but only if you have a stable tool rest to use it on. It both trues and dresses in a way you can't do with a hand held, and takes off less material due to the micro adjustment. Replacing the plastic bushings on a wheel with steel ones, fixed I.D and O.D. for the particular wheel and arbor, is a plus for wheel stability and truing. A variable arm angle jig like the Vari Grind lets you make new setting easily, and also record the settings for replication of the grind.
Oops, almost forgot something. I am a lover of the Ellsworth Signature gouges, the long handle and the flute length and the balance. But I use a lot of other shapes for particular things - even those I could use my Signatures for. Roughing and rough shaping, the sometimes use of the 85 degree nose. I buy HSS bowl gouges from PSI at about 30 bucks for a 5/8" diameter (couldn't find my catalog, might be off by a few bucks). Not the hardest of HSS, and they don't have all the flute shapes I might want, but for tools I'll be reshaping to a purpose they are the best to use. No knock on the finer tool makers (except that I have a thing against Sorby - overpriced by the name and the grind -I fell into that trap years ago when I first started). When my Ellsworth Signatures wear down I'll buy new ones from the makers - but that will be a long time as the flute length is so long. When I need a flute shape that PSI doesn't make (they have a limited inventory) I'll look at Packard, or some other lines, then shape the grind to my taste.
Sometimes one can forget the balance of expense. Last evening I was roughing a badly rounded bowl blank (I'd goofed in my rounding the half log on the band saw). I was using my Celtic grind 45 degree PSI gouge, and not getting very good cuts even though I honed it with my diamond stone. It took five minutes to set up the grinder to resharpen it, about a minute for the sharpening as the replication was perfect. Bingo, a fine fast cut on the wood. I'm not advocating cheap tools on the whole, but why spend money on the tools you use for roughing when you have a grinder setup that can quickly resharpen them, even if the last tool was a a different shape.
Enough, I said it would be long. I confess to a long day and a few Molson's contributing to my garrulity. Another day I'll speak of hollowing tools - and why it is easier to make them than spend a lot of money on them. Teaser, mine cost me about 10 bucks apiece - clue, look at David Ellsworth's hollowing tools.You can make them yourself, (italics unintentional, can't figure how to kill them).
Best, Jon
For many years I used a slow/wet setup (a Jet equipped with Tormek jigs) and a six inch HS grinder for rough grinding. To save space I got a Woodcraft slow 8" to do it all. I replaced the wheels with a Norton 3X SG 80 (K hardness) and a 120 grit (J hardness, they don't have K in 120). I got the Wolverine system for one wheel and the Tormek "bench grinder" jig for the other - so I could use the Tormek jig for gouges. I also sprung for Don Geiger's True-N-Dress to balance and dress the wheels. I already had the SX 80 wheel, had been using it on a mandrel on my lathe.
Unsuccessful! The new J hardness 120 wouldn't round with the True-N-Dress (I contacted Don, and he recommended the K hardness, but try to find that in 120 grit - Norton had one, but it is now after market. I had my 80 grit K on the Tormek "bench rig" side. The vibration in that rig precludes a good dressing of the wheel (it's fine for the slow/wet at 90 rpm, but the 1700 rpm makes the dresser bounce with the flex in the arm). The tool also bounces a bit, and more as the wheel isn't truly even. I have seen some postings that like the Tormek rig on the bench grinder, but I disagree. I could go on with my experiments, but I think I've said enough on the negatives.
Solution! I now have my single setup that does it all for me. I canned the Tormek arm rig and put another Wolverine "receiver" on that wheel. I got Don Geiger's Vertical Solutions Pro Sharp 4X arm (a new product, more on that). I bought two new Norton 3X 80 grit K wheels. I bought fitted steel bushings to replace the "variable plastic bushings" supplied with the wheels (and that is a one time purchase, when I wear a wheel down I can reuse the bushing). I balanced the wheels horizontally (wobble) with "dot stickers" (a Geiger suggestion), then brought them to round with the True-N-Dress. I use the Wolverine original Vari Grind jig, and am able to shape and finish all my gouges with consistency.
The Why's:
Why two 80 grit wheels? I use home made Ellsworth style hollowing tools so to shape and sharpen the cutters I've rounded the shoulders of one wheel while the other is sharp shouldered. I find that the cool cutting of the 3X and the smooth surface from the T-N-D gives me the ability for a gentle or heavier cut, depending on my pressure. The K hardness is needed to get that smooth surface even with the T-N-D. I use the narrower flat of the round shouldered wheel for parting tools, etc. as I can keep the flat rest on that side.
Why the steel bushings? The supplied plastic layers of bushings are a bit soft so the initial balancing of the wheel is inconsistent, they are worth the investment. They allow one to really true the wheel - and therefore get a fine surface on the tools.
Why the True-N-Dress? A long term saving, the micro adjustment allows for a quick and true dressing of the wheel without much material removal. The solid foundation on the tool rest (providing the rest is solid - note my comments on the Tormek bench rig) not only dresses the wheel but also keeps it in true round. No hand held can be that steady. This is from experience, not Don's advertising. It allows me to use the larger grit and yet get an almost mirror finish.
Why the Geiger VS 4X? I had his original Vertical Solution arm, and it has a gauge to compensate for wheel wear (the shape of the hollow bevel changes as the wheel wears, as does the angle - the gauge allows an easy setup of the length of the arm and the height of the V-notch). The original VS is designed to use the Ellsworth jig, but can use the Wolverine Vari Grind. But it is limited. The 4X has a "peg" inserted into the V-notch with four specific "pinned" settings as to distance from the wheel. BTW, for those who already have the original VS there is an upgrade kit on his site, and for those who recently bought the original - and who have a facility with making things - Don might send you the peg and pin for a nominal price. I'll not speak for him, but I converted my original to the 4X by a bit of drilling and fitting.
Why the Vari Grind? The Vari Grind has an adjustable leg with seven positions (and fourteen if you treat the other side of the notch as a position, a bit more difficult to set as the angle is obtuse so the exact point is harder to read). I have found that to be plenty of variation to cover any grind. I have numbered the notches (with an etching tool) from 1 to 7 along the sharp edge (1 being closest to parallel with the tool shaft) and designate the "soft edge" of the notch as "+"). That way I can keep notes for my specific settings for my gouges. BTW, I do suggest softening the end of the Vari Grind arm to more of a radius than the square edge. With all due respect to my guru David Ellsworth I find I can do the Ellsworth grind on various sizes of gouges better with this setup than with his jig. His is designed for a 5/8" diameter bowl gouge, works for 1/2" with a bit of "tip high" angle, and is off a good bit with a 3/8" diameter gouge. The Vari Grind gives a consistent angle of the tool shaft in the jig. But that is important only for those, like myself, who like a small Ellsworth gouge for small turnings.
How about the skews and the others? I used jigs for them on my old Jet/Tormek system, my 77 year old hands aren't very accurate freehand, and not that good at adjusting the tool rest. Wolverine has its fixed arm that you can rest the handle of the tool in. Forget it. Use a flat tool rest and free hand on it. Another Geiger solution, but this one not for sale. All one needs is to have the tool rest at the right angle to the wheel, then hold the tool flat to the wheel. Problem is to get the "angle of the dangle". Simple solution, and credit it to Don. Spend a bit of time setting the tool rest for the bevel you want (using a tool you like and a Sharpie and hand turning the wheel). Then take a rectangular block of MDF and rest it on the rest and slide it up to the side of the wheel. Mark the curve of the wheel with a pencil, cut out the curve with a jig saw, then cut out the center of the curve so you have two points of contact. Now you have a gauge that will always set the angle of the tool to the wheel as you adjust the rest. You can pick a point for the arm, then adjust the angle of the rest to the guage. I finalize my gauges by coming back to the wheel (still set) and give a small grind on the MDF.
Now that I have the angle of the bevel set on the tool rest all I need to do for shaping a skew is to work it by hand. I do some radius skews and some Lacer style radius/straight combination skews. As I only have to move in one dimension I don't need any guiding jig, and I can shape to my taste. The same applies to roughing gouges and parting tools. The Wolverine arm to me is a waste, it is easier to control the tool on the rest than from the long arc of the arm.
Coming back to the Geiger VS 4X, Don's advertising suggests limits it doesn't have. Using the supplied 60 degree gauge (and the built in 2" tool extension gauge) one can set up a "nose" angle of 40, 50, 60 or 70 degrees by adjusting the peg to set points - and get an Ellsworth shape with either an Ellsworth jig or a Vari Grind set to the right angle - according to the ad. But with the Vari Grind that is not so. I have a list of settings for all my gouges, each a combination of Vari Grind leg angle and one of the four peg postions. I use the gauged arm distance and V-notch height setting for a 60 degree Ellsworth grind (takes about two minutes to set up the arm distance and height). Then set the peg for the variable distance, and the leg of the Vari Grind. That takes less than a minute. Now I have a repeatable grind for almost any shape.
Examples: Given the Ellsworth 60 degree setup (my Vari Grind at notch #4) and the peg on the "red" (60 degrees) I can make my Celtic grind 85 degree nose bevel gouge (used for the flats at the bottom of a wide closed bowl) by setting the peg at "blue" (70 degrees nominal) and the Vari Grind leg at #6+. I can go to my 45 degree nose Celtic by setting the peg at "red" (60 degrees nominal) and my Vari Grind at notch #3. Two examples are enough, but I'll mention that I do detail gouges to 30 degrees with a different side bevel and various others all by using this setup with different settings.
Summary: Nothing is perfect, but for me this setup is as close as I can get - given my space, my budget, and my needs. I have "wasted" a lot of money over a decade coming to this solution, I hope that my suggestions will be of help to those who have not yet found their best system. If I help anyone on the way my experiments haven't been a waste. My end result is the 8" slow dry grinder (I don't think a VS is needed, the extra speed would save time in reshaping, but not as much as one might think as the extra heat needs more "time out"). The Woodcraft works well for me. The Norton 3X SG wheels are cool and cut well, and true well. If I hit the lottery I might try the SG, but it is twice the price. K hardness trues well, lesser hardness not as much, and a finer grit may not give you a better finish if it doesn't true as well. The Wolverine base system is solid and versatile, but their long arm is relatively useless. The Geiger VS arm, and particularly the new VS Pro Sharp 4X, is expensive, but to me it has been worth the price for the ease of changing my setup. The Geiger True-N-Dress is also worth it in the long run, but only if you have a stable tool rest to use it on. It both trues and dresses in a way you can't do with a hand held, and takes off less material due to the micro adjustment. Replacing the plastic bushings on a wheel with steel ones, fixed I.D and O.D. for the particular wheel and arbor, is a plus for wheel stability and truing. A variable arm angle jig like the Vari Grind lets you make new setting easily, and also record the settings for replication of the grind.
Oops, almost forgot something. I am a lover of the Ellsworth Signature gouges, the long handle and the flute length and the balance. But I use a lot of other shapes for particular things - even those I could use my Signatures for. Roughing and rough shaping, the sometimes use of the 85 degree nose. I buy HSS bowl gouges from PSI at about 30 bucks for a 5/8" diameter (couldn't find my catalog, might be off by a few bucks). Not the hardest of HSS, and they don't have all the flute shapes I might want, but for tools I'll be reshaping to a purpose they are the best to use. No knock on the finer tool makers (except that I have a thing against Sorby - overpriced by the name and the grind -I fell into that trap years ago when I first started). When my Ellsworth Signatures wear down I'll buy new ones from the makers - but that will be a long time as the flute length is so long. When I need a flute shape that PSI doesn't make (they have a limited inventory) I'll look at Packard, or some other lines, then shape the grind to my taste.
Sometimes one can forget the balance of expense. Last evening I was roughing a badly rounded bowl blank (I'd goofed in my rounding the half log on the band saw). I was using my Celtic grind 45 degree PSI gouge, and not getting very good cuts even though I honed it with my diamond stone. It took five minutes to set up the grinder to resharpen it, about a minute for the sharpening as the replication was perfect. Bingo, a fine fast cut on the wood. I'm not advocating cheap tools on the whole, but why spend money on the tools you use for roughing when you have a grinder setup that can quickly resharpen them, even if the last tool was a a different shape.
Enough, I said it would be long. I confess to a long day and a few Molson's contributing to my garrulity. Another day I'll speak of hollowing tools - and why it is easier to make them than spend a lot of money on them. Teaser, mine cost me about 10 bucks apiece - clue, look at David Ellsworth's hollowing tools.You can make them yourself, (italics unintentional, can't figure how to kill them).
Best, Jon