New box joint jig.

[David Cramer]

Awhile back there was a thread about a new box jig on the horizon (I can't find it while searching). Is this jig, the Incra being sold at Woodcraft the one that was being talked about? Thanks, David

[David Cramer]

Sorry I forgot to post it.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2084840/38688/incra-ibox-jig-for-box-joints-model-incra-ibox.aspx

[David Kumm]

Isn't that Alan Schaffter's design. Dave

[Tony Joyce]

Lee Valley has a better price than Woodcraft.
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=69814&cat=1,43000

Tony

[richard poitras]

Awhile back there was a thread about a new box jig on the horizon (I can't find it while searching). Is this jig, the Incra being sold at Woodcraft the one that was being talked about? Thanks, David

David, yes the I-box is the one that every one is talking about. I have one and its a great jig.

[David Nelson1]

Very interesting video!

[David Cramer]

Thanks for the info everyone and thanks for confirming that it is the jig I remember many touting on here awhile back. I had forgotten about it until I was on the Woodcraft website a couple days ago. Woodcraft has a 15% off sale this weekend so with the discount and tax it will be about $153.16, if my math is correct (but thanks for the Lee Valley link/price). I have no clue who Alan Schaffter is, but this jig is an Incra jig and apparently an improvement on their previous one. Thanks again:)

David

[Bill Huber]

Here are some threads on the Ibox, it is a great jig and does an outstanding job.
Yes it is Alan's jig, he came up with the idea and worked with Incra to bring it to market is my understanding.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?187215-Got-my-Ibox-miter-set-up-for-the-router-table

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?187418-First-wooden-hinges-with-some-questions

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?186537-Lookee-what-Brown-did-for-me-today!/page2

[Joseph Tarantino]

alan is a gifted fellow creeker who i believe originated the Ibox jig for box joints. this is his video on dust collection:

http://videos.americanwoodworker.com/video/Automatic-Dust-Collection

[Harold Burrell]

Yes it is Alan's jig...

If I get one, do you think Alan would autograph it for me???

[David Cramer]

Isn't that Alan Schaffter's design. Dave

Sorry, I didn't mean to slight Alan in the least but I simply had no idea that it was his design and that incra used it or bought it from him. Nice job Alan:) and yes I am buying one this weekend:).

[Alan Schaffter]

I just stumbled on this thread. Without breaking my arm patting myself on the back, as others have said the INCRA I-BOX is my baby. I came up with the original mechanism concept and after licensing it to INCRA I worked with them to develop the retail version. INCRA made no small contribution either. Great design work and US manufacturing resulted in one fantastic jig.

I think Hartville Tools (http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/5844/table-saw-jigs) currently has the best price- $154.95 list - WoodNet discount (15%) = $131.71. One place on their website says "out of stock", but I'd give them a call. (Correction)

I hadn't used it in a long while until this week when I had to make some samples for a show- I truly forgot how great the I-BOX really is, and I'm not just blowing smoke for my small royalty. Check out the great WW magazine and Amazon reviews!

If any of you are in the VA, NC, SC, GA, TN KY area this Friday or Saturday, come to the Klingspore Woodworking Extravagaza (http://klingsporextra.blogspot.com/) in Hickory, NC. I will be demonstrating the I-BOX. First, I'll be briefly discussing box joints in general- I made some eye-opening samples that show how just a few thousands of an inch can make a big difference in the fit of a box joint. During my demonstration I'll use the I-BOX to show how easy it is to make most of the joints pictured below including the decorative exotic ones that are I-BOX exclusives. I'll be making standard, center-keyed, splined, center-keyed splined, etc., box joints, as well as wooden hinges and dentil molding. If I get it done, I'll also have a dual-sided, hinged, inside-out-box.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BuiyfuvVL.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dheVpECBL.jpg

[Bill Huber]

If any of you are in the VA, NC, SC, GA, TN KY area this Friday or Saturday, come to the Klingspore Woodworking Extravagaza (http://klingsporextra.blogspot.com/) in Hickory, NC. I will be demonstrating the I-BOX. First, I'll be briefly discussing box joints in general- I made some eye-opening samples that show how just a few thousands of an inch can make a big difference in the fit of a box joint. During my demonstration I'll use the I-BOX to show how easy it is to make most of the joints pictured below including the decorative exotic ones that are I-BOX exclusives. I'll be making standard, center keyed, splined box, center-keyed splined, etc., box joints, as well as wooden hinges and dentil molding. If I get it done, I'll also have a dual-sided, hinged, inside out box.


I am just to far away and can't make it but are you going to come back and show some pictures of that dual-sided, hinged, inside out box?

I still love the jig and it is still one of the best jigs that does what it states it will do and does it really easy.
Did you see my post on the router table sub-base thing for the I-Box?
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?187215-Got-my-Ibox-miter-set-up-for-the-router-table

[Alan Schaffter]

Bill, Thanks for the kind words! I saw your sled and think it is a nifty solution. There was a poster on an Australian website who had an issue with his miter slot being too far away from the blade for the early I-BOXes. INCRA has since lengthened the miter bar mounting slots to accommodate this odd saw (an old Jet). If that didn't solve his problem, I'll post a link to your thread.

If and when I get the hinged box done I will post photos. As much as I would like to claim credit, the box design is not mine- it is just easier to make with an I-BOX.

[Andy Korfin]

Thanks for posting now I don;t have to pay Woodcraft's excessive shipping & get a better price to boot !

[Fred Voorhees]

I just took delivery of this jig the other day and played with it after setting it up yesterday after work. Amazing little jig and well worth the cash. Easy to set up and pretty much turned out a quick and nice little practice box out of the gate! Learned a thing or two along the way and will no doubt turn out some pretty nice boxes with this jig in no time.

[Alan Schaffter]

I just took delivery of this jig the other day and played with it after setting it up yesterday after work. Amazing little jig and well worth the cash. Easy to set up and pretty much turned out a quick and nice little practice box out of the gate! Learned a thing or two along the way and will no doubt turn out some pretty nice boxes with this jig in no time.

Fred, thanks for the feedback! I am currently at the Klingspore Woodworking Extravaganza in Hickory, NC doing I-BOX demos for North Carolina Woodworker dot net. I check in here daily when I'm home, so don't hesitate to post or send me a PM if you have any questions or issues not associated with missing or broken parts (you should contact INCRA directly about those.) Enjoy the jig! From all I can tell, you have joined the ranks of satisfied users! :) Thanks, again.

[Cody Colston]

I ordered one today after struggling to get a shop-built 1/2" box joint jig to work making a 12" hinge. Just a small error will become too much over 12 inches. I finally got it dialed in but I spent all evening on it. That's when I ordered the IBox.

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan:

Be a salesman for a minute. What does the I-Box do that the Wonder fence on my Incra LS Positioner doesn't? Or perhaps put another way, what advantages and disadvantages does it have over Incra's other device, their Wonder Fence?

Thanks,

Alan

[Steve Wurster]

I don't own one, but from what I understand the I-Box adjusts to meet the actual diameter of the router bit or thickness of the stacked dado, as opposed to the "advertised" diameter or thickness. Rarely do you get a router bit that is exactly 3/8" or 1/2" in diameter, and my stacked dado set is definitely undersized (I think a number of them are like that to more easily deal with plywood thicknesses and allow for adjusting the fit with shims). The I-Box adjusts the pin size to match whatever cutter you are using.

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan:

Be a salesman for a minute. What does the I-Box do that the Wonder fence on my Incra LS Positioner doesn't? Or perhaps put another way, what advantages and disadvantages does it have over Incra's other device, their Wonder Fence?

Thanks,

Alan

Alan,

I own an LS/Wonder fence setup but really haven't used it much beyond my trip to INCRA and a visit to Perry McDaniel's shop where he walked me through building dovetail and nested dovetail boxes (see pic) Both are excellent units, but I believe it is much easier and quicker to set, reset, and use an I-BOX to make simple and unique, decorative box joints (only), and box joints in wide stock or long dentil molding. It can not be used to cut dovetails. The LS/Wonderfence can be use to cut both dovetail joints and box joints, but if I can remember, you are limited in the width of stock you can cut, and it is primarily designed to work on a router table.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/IMG_3025.jpg

The LS Positioning system that is the heart of the Wonderfence, uses a different principle. Like the I-BOX it is leadscrew driven and micro-adjustable. It uses the leadscrew to index the fence/stock when cutting both dovetails and box joints, but it is really designed to work in fractional (1/32") (and now metric) increments. You adjust the position of the fence to match the cut of fractional dovetail, straight router bits, and dado stacks. Even though the I-BOX also has a leadscrew (actually, a dual pitch leadscrew) it only uses it to adjust the position of the both guide pins relative to each other and the blade- it advances one pin X and the other 2X and is dimensionally blind- that is to say it doesn't use fractional measurements it uses direct transfer of a test kerf created by dado blade or router bit- it doesn't care what the X dimension is and units (inches, millimeters, etc.) are meaningless. You therefore do not need to obsess setting the dado exactly or worry whether the router bit is over or under-sized- the I-BOX doesn't care, it adjusts to that dimension, and works just fine.

For example- if using the LS Positioner to make finger joints, the router bit size must be precise (unfortunately not all are) or you must carefully set the dado blade for an exact fractional width using extreme care, shims, and test cuts. This is important because many (most?) dado blades, including the Forrest Dado King, are manufactured smaller than the advertized sizes. As an example, the Dado King I used for my demonstrations at the Klingspore Woodworking Extravaganza this weekend was stacked with two "1/8 inch" chippers and two "1/8 inch" trimmers. It should have cut a 1/2" (.500") dado, right? However, the dado kerf actually mic'd out to only .430". .070" error is totally unacceptable for a box joint. In fact, I made a set of samples for the show that clearly demonstrated that. An error of as little as + / - .008" will result in a joint that is unacceptably too loose or so tight the joint could not be assembled! The I-BOX doesn't care- it treats a .430", .434" , .550", etc. cutter the same as it treats a .500" cutter- and all automatically.

With an LS you can probably advance the fence by .430" with a combination of the LS leadscrew- 14/32" (.4375") minus .007" or .008" of micro adjust each time you advance the fence, and successfully make a box joint, though I don't know if you can or would even want to try that, so you must carefully stack and shim the dado for .500".

More info than you wanted? In summary, IMHO, nothing beats an I-BOX for making box joints.

Alan

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan:

Thank you, very educational. I really appreciated that. .070" error:eek:

Your I-Box is very impressive. I hope your demonstration was a great success.

Alan

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan:

Thank you, very educational. I really appreciated that. .070" error:eek:

Your I-Box is very impressive. I hope your demonstration was a great success.

Alan

Thanks, the demos went very well- the I-BOX made me look like I actually knew what I was doing :cool: . Here is a report of my last demo of the show:

I felt a bit rushed because the NCWW booth was a little small which forced us to do a major reset between each demo- move a lathe to the back and the tablesaw to the front, etc., change the setup and swap out all samples, etc. My time was especially short since the preceding demo ran over its allotted time, so I decided to forgo some of the simpler decorative joints and go straight from making a basic box joint with MDF to making the most elaborate joint possible with the I-BOX, the center-keyed splined joint using some good hardwood- walnut, maple and another hardwood. I quickly checked the I-BOX calibration and verified the pin spacing matched the (3/8") blade kerf- it was really .368" (vs .375"). This joint requires a micro adjustment equal to half the kerf width. So to make it easy to dial in .184", I used a mix of fractions and decimal micro (I-BOX micro is 1/32" per rotation and .001" per tic mark). I very quickly rotated the micro dial 6 full rotations (almost lost count!) for 6/32" (.1875" ) of micro then backed off, a tad over 3 tic marks for the desired .184" of micro.

Unlike a standard joint where you cut from edge to edge, this one requires you start from each edge and work towards the center of each piece. I quickly made the cuts in each board, then, without changing any of the settings (the beauty of the I-BOX when making this joint) I used the I-BOX to cut the decorative splines- another set of fingers made from a contrasting colored wood. The guys had already put the bandsaw away so I had to cross cut the spline strip using the dado blade! Once cut, I snapped off a few finger sets, and proceeded to dry assemble A PERFECT JOINT!! - a perfect end to a very satisfying weekend!! I had to leave early, but when I checked the Klingspore sales area before leaving, they had sold almost all the I-BOXes they brought to the show!!

I'll add a photo or two once I unpack.

[Harold Burrell]

Thanks, the demos went very well- the I-BOX made me look like I actually knew what I was doing :cool: . Here is a report of my last demo of the show:

I felt a bit rushed because the NCWW booth was a little small which forced us to do a major reset between each demo- move a lathe to the back and the tablesaw to the front, etc., change the setup and swap out all samples, etc. My time was especially short since the preceding demo ran over its allotted time, so I decided to forgo some of the simpler decorative joints and go straight from making a basic box joint with MDF to making the most elaborate joint possible with the I-BOX, the center-keyed splined joint using some good hardwood- walnut, maple and another hardwood. I quickly checked the I-BOX calibration and verified the pin spacing matched the (3/8") blade kerf- it was really .368" (vs .375"). This joint requires a micro adjustment equal to half the kerf width. So to make it easy to dial in .184", I used a mix of fractions and decimal micro (I-BOX micro is 1/32" per rotation and .001" per tic mark). I very quickly rotated the micro dial 6 full rotations (almost lost count!) for 6/32" (.1875" ) of micro then backed off, a tad over 3 tic marks for the desired .184" of micro.

Unlike a standard joint where you cut from edge to edge, this one requires you start from each edge and work towards the center of each piece. I quickly made the cuts in each board, then, without changing any of the settings (the beauty of the I-BOX when making this joint) I used the I-BOX to cut the decorative splines- another set of fingers made from a contrasting colored wood. The guys had already put the bandsaw away so I had to cross cut the spline strip using the dado blade! Once cut, I snapped off a few finger sets, and proceeded to dry assemble A PERFECT JOINT!! - a perfect end to a very satisfying weekend!! I had to leave early, but when I checked the Klingspore sales area before leaving, they had sold almost all the I-BOXes they brought to the show!!

I'll add a photo or two once I unpack.

Man, you're like a rock star...

I so want to be you when I grow up. :)

[Charles Lent]

I was helping out in the NC Woodworkers booth at the show and I witnessed Alan's demonstrations. They went as well as he says they did and he impressed a lot of people, including me. They say "no pictures, didn't happen". Well, until Alan gets his pictures posted, he has me for a witness. It really did happen as well as he says it did. I don't own an IBox jig yet, but it's on my Christmas wish list.

Charley

[Alan Schaffter]

I didn't have a camera at the Klingspore Woodworking Extravaganza and it seems pictures weren't taken of my demos or static display, so I shot some photos of the my visual aids earlier today. All samples were made with a standard I-BOX, neither Photoshop nor smoke & mirrors were used::D

My demo/display sign:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43251.JPG

Splined Joint- Walnut with aluminum splines!:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_4315.JPG

Splined Joint- Beech w/Walnut splines:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43201.JPG

Dentil Molding in Walnut made with three different sizes of dentils:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43221.JPG

Dry-fit Splined Joint in MDF (untrimmed splines). Show attendees could disassemble, examine, and reassemble this joint and others like it:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43181.JPG

A dry-fit, Center-Keyed, Splined Joint in Poplar. The Walnut splines were cut with the I-BOX using the exact same settings used to cut the joint. Splines look like this when trimmed from the spline material with a bandsaw, but have not been glued nor trimmed flush:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43211.JPG

Dry-fit, Center-Keyed, Splined Joint in Poplar (trimmed Walnut splines):

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43192.JPG

Another dry-fit, Center-Keyed, Splined Joint in Walnut and Maple. Though extremely rushed at the time, I made this perfect fitting joint during one of my live demonstrations. Once glued, trimmed and sanded, this joint will look great though it probably would look better if the splines were purple heart or blood wood!

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43241.JPG

One of six sets of joints made with different amounts of micro adjustment. They clearly illustrate how critical the fit is for a box joint. I intentionally added different amounts of micro adjustment to each joint. The amount ranged from - .004" which resulted in a joint that was too tight to + .006" which resulted in one that was too loose. I asked attendees to assemble each pair so they could feel the difference for themselves. With the I-BOX it is easy to make perfect joints at the outset or to correct the joint if a test shows it is less than perfect:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43261.JPG

These two joints, cut in opposite ends of the same boards using exactly the same I-BOX setup, show how using the Center-Keyed technique can eliminate partial pins at the edges of a joint- it moves the "widow" finger material to the center of the joint. I had attendees watch me assemble the "widow" end first and pointed to the "widow." Then I assembled the Center-keyed end and asked them what happened to the "widow." Fewer than a half noticed the wider center (maple) finger!!:

Note, the narrow Walnut finger ("widow") at the bottom of the joint:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43161.JPG

Not always possible due to board width and cutter size, the Center-Keyed technique normally results in full sized first and last fingers, a symmetrical joint, and eliminates the "widow" by moving the extra material to the center of the joint. When combined with various versions of the Splined Joint, it results in some very unique looking joints:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/2578/medium/IMG_43172.JPG

[Art Mulder]

I've looked a bit at this jig.
I've also looked a lot at the Woodgears scew-advance (http://woodgears.ca/box_joint/jig_improved.html) jig.

One question I have... in the few videos I've seen, the i-box is used to cut only one board at a time, whereas in the woodgears jig you see it being used to cut four at a time.
So with the woodgears jig I would make 2 sets of cuts (one for each end of the four boards in a box) and be done.

So can the i-box be used to cut 4 boards at once?

[Alan Schaffter]

I've looked a bit at this jig.
I've also looked a lot at the Woodgears scew-advance (http://woodgears.ca/box_joint/jig_improved.html) jig.

One question I have... in the few videos I've seen, the i-box is used to cut only one board at a time, whereas in the woodgears jig you see it being used to cut four at a time.
So with the woodgears jig I would make 2 sets of cuts (one for each end of the four boards in a box) and be done.

So can the i-box be used to cut 4 boards at once?

First, the I-BOX can cut four boards at a time as long as they fit on the stock ledge. With the guard installed the stock ledge is approx. 1-3/4" wide so will hold four 7/16" thick boards. Though not recommended, the stock ledge is 2-3/8" wide if the stock ledge is removed so will hold four 19/32" thick boards.

If you are using a box joint jig to make jewelry, gift, keepsake, etc. boxes where appearance is important, as opposed to making utilitarian crates, you will want to ensure they look good. That means symmetrical joints, consistent first and last pins, orderly arrangement of and choice of colors/wood species, etc., etc.

If you cut four ends at once, then the top edge of one end of every side will have a full finger so the top edge of other end must have a notch. Unless you have carefully selected the cutter size and board width, who knows what you will have on the bottom edges.

Frankly, even if you aren't using different color wood, I think it looks much better if the top edge of both ends of one pair of opposing sides have pins and the other pair has notches at both ends. Without trimming the boards after they are cut, you can only achieve that result by cutting one pair of opposing sides at a time, then using that pair as a reference to start the cuts in the other pair of sides. The boxes in this photo, especially the ones on the left, illustrate what I mean:

http://www.incra.com/images/rtf_ibox_pic1_zoom.jpg

Another consideration, is that if the cutter (dado stack or router bit) is not precisely chosen and set and/or the board width is not chosen with the same care, you may end up with a partial pin at the end of the joint. It will assemble but just doesn't look as classy as the joints achievable with the I-BOX- look at the three larger boxes in the center, back row in the photo above. They use a "center-keyed joint" which guarantees a full first and last pin/notch appearance. The last two photos in my earlier post show a joint with a partial finger (I call it a "widow") in the first photo and a joint cut with the "center-keyed" technique in the other. I can't say since I don't have one, but I don't think those are possible with Mathias' jig.

Lastly, WRT Mathias' jig or other jigs (Lynn's Jig) that rely on fractional leadscrews for stock placement, you must take great care to ensure your dado stack is an exact multiple of 1/32". My Forrest Dado King like many dado blades is manufactured (and designed) to cut undersize, so requires careful shimming to achieve a precise cut size (unless you are using an I-BOX which easily adjusts to the cut, not the advertized dado size). I believe Mathias' jig uses a 16 TPI (threads per inch) or 32 TPI leadscrew. If the cutter isn't an exact fractional multiple then you must turn the crank slightly more or less than a full rotation each time you turn it. That partial rotation must be applied to each rotation of the crank. e.g. for 7/8 of a rotation, the next rotation would start at the 7/8 point, the next one at the 3/4 point, the next one at the 5/8 point and so on. Alternatively you can wait and apply this correction at the end of each cutting pass, e.g. in our simple example you would make 8 rotations then back off one rotation (8 times 1/8 rotation). To compound the problem in the first method, in addition to remembering to adjust the point where you stop each rotation, or in the second method, you must keep track of the total number of rotations- a jig like Mathias' with a 16 TPI lead screw requires 8 rotations between each cutting pass for a 1/4" joint, that can be a lot of cranking if you have wide boards. There is no cranking or counting, you just move the board so the notch slips over the index pin before each pass with the I-BOX- in reality it likely takes less time, and you don't need to worry about losing count with an I-BOX! His jig will probably do decorative insert joints, but the mental math likely required scares even me!

[Art Mulder]

How do you do the centre-keyed boxjoint?
(I looked on youtube and google but just found general reviews and intro videos.)

[Alan Schaffter]

How do you do the centre-keyed boxjoint?
(I looked on youtube and google but just found general reviews and intro videos.)

The INCRA website only has the intro video.

As much as I would like to claim the Center-Keyed joint is a difficult and magical joint, in truth it isn't. It requires a small bit of planning - to select a cutter size and stock width to ensure there will be space for the center key (you can use an equation or the INCRA-provided table).

Basically you start at one edge of the first board and work halfway across towards its center, flip the board edge-for-edge and work your way to the center from the other edge. Then, just as you do with other fixed pin box joint jigs, you use the first pin of the first board (in this case the first or last pin since they are identical) to position the second board for the first cut from each edge, then like the first board continue to the center before flipping it and cutting from the other edge.

Depending on your selection of cutter size and board width (and desired number of fingers in the case of a Center-Keyed Splined Joint), you will end up with a symmetrical joint that has a center pin/notch combination that is slightly wider or narrower than the others. With very careful planning the center pin/notch can be the same or almost the same width as the other fingers (see the joint in the last photo in my earlier post), but this is one instance where a wider/narrower centered pair can look just as good or better, especially with a joint that combines the Center-Keyed and Splined features.

Obviously, if you aren't concerned with the symmetry of the joint or width of the stock (height of the box) you can rip the sides to remove widows. The Center-Keyed Joint is just another tool in the I-BOX arsenal that allows you to achieve a distinctive appearance without the need to adjust the width of the stock.

[Brian Brightwell]

I do a lot of box joints. I move the indexing pin to or from the blade to adjust the fit of the joint. I do not shim or otherwise adjust the dado stack. Could someone explain the advantages of this jig over a dedicated box jig.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/DSC_0095.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy11/bebrightwell/DSC_0092.jpg

[Alan Schaffter]

I do a lot of box joints. I move the indexing pin to or from the blade to adjust the fit of the joint. I do not shim or otherwise adjust the dado stack. Could someone explain the advantages of this jig over a dedicated box jig.

Brian, to be able to answer your questions, let me ask you a few of my own first-

What types of projects do you make which incorporate box joints? Do you use box joints for strength only or for decoration and strength? What size dado blade are you using? Do you ever change the size of the fingers (and the dado), or do you just use one size for every joint (e.g. only use 1/4" fingers)? How do you precisely adjust the position of the indexing pin? If you make joints with different size fingers how do you adjust the size of the dado and the corresponding size of your indexing pin, or do you, as it appears in your photos, have a completely separate jig for each size joint? How many dedicated jigs do you have?

I suspect you will find the answer to your question, is that unlike a dedicated jig which cuts only one size joint, the I-BOX will precisely cut any size joint within its 1/8" to 3/4" range with simple, accurate, user-friendly settings, corrects for any size router bit or dado blade, even metric, and over/undersize and recently sharpened blades or bits, and can cut a wide variety of decorative joints (see picture (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BuiyfuvVL.jpg)) and dentil moldings not possible with any dedicated jig.

[Brian Brightwell]

I asked this question because I wanted to know what I might be missing out on, not to criticize anyone who bought one. I am not above buying one myself but want more info.
So many questions and I type so slowly. I like box joints for strength and looks. I have three jigs, 1/2,3/8 and 1/4. Now that they are all dialed in no adjustments are needed when going from one to the other. So far I have no need for 1/8 or 3/4. I move the indexing by using a dial indicator and tapping it left or right. There is some movement under the bolts. I have not made any adjustments since the initial setup. All I do to change joint size is change jigs.
I can not easily do variably spaced box joints but I have not wanted to.

[Alan Schaffter]

I asked this question because I wanted to know what I might be missing out on, not to criticize anyone who bought one. I am not above buying one myself but want more info.
So many questions and I type so slowly. I like box joints for strength and looks. I have three jigs, 1/2,3/8 and 1/4. Now that they are all dialed in no adjustments are needed when going from one to the other. So far I have no need for 1/8 or 3/4. I move the indexing by using a dial indicator and tapping it left or right. There is some movement under the bolts. I have not made any adjustments since the initial setup. All I do to change joint size is change jigs.
I can not easily do variably spaced box joints but I have not wanted to.

Brian, no problem. I was actually hoping both my questions and your answers would educate others about box joints and box joint jigs. As part of my demo, I included a very basic DIY box joint jig- wood fence attached to a miter gauge and a wood index pin. While it is simple to make and can be used to cut very satisfactory looking box joints, once it's done it can be a real pain to dial in, will only make one size joint, and won't make anything more than a basic joint. If a woodworker will only be making one project using basic box joints and has the time and patience to dial in the jig and/or dado blade, a basic jig like that might be the best approach. A friend who is a talented woodwork, had such a problem dialing in the Woodsmith jig, the commercial version of the Shopnotes screw adjustable jig, once he finally got it to cut 1/4" box joints, he locked it down and never tried to change the setting.

Do a Google search and you will find the Internet filled with folks selling plans, videos, etc. on how to make what they claim are simple but reliable box joint jigs. Many are just rip-offs of popular jigs of the past- the Shop Notes/Woodsmith DIY/Commercial jig, Lynn's Jig, or their own version of Mathias Wandel's Wood Gears jig, etc. Often when they finish, they find they have a complicated, sometimes hard to adjust box joint jig that works no better and has no better capabilities than the basic wood fence jig. I did very extensive research on box joints and box joint jigs and found widespread dissatisfaction with just about all of them. They all worked to a degree, but failed when it came to simplicity, reliability, flexibility, and ability to consistently make truly good looking joints.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the problem with many box joint jigs has just as much to do with the dado blade as the jig. First, unless you only use one size joint and have a dedicated dado and tablesaw, you will be installing and removing the dado blade stack between box making sessions or when changing the size of the stack- it is very easy to stack the same chippers and trimmers, but end up with a different kerf due to a variety of reasons- dust or chips between blades, blade tip overlap, shim stuck in arbor threads, arbor nut torque, etc. A difference of just a few thousandths of an inch can be the difference between a good and bad box joint. Also, unknown to many woodworkers, most dado blades do not cut a kerf that matches the published size. Many brands (including Forrest) are manufactured undersized, so require shims to obtain the common fractional sizes- 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", etc. If you don't shim the blade then the box joint jig must be set up for actual size of the blade stack, e.g. 7/32" or 63/64" instead of 1/4" (one of the features of the I-BOX, except it is set with direct transfer of the kerf size instead of using calipers and numerical dimensions.)

As the originator of the I-BOX (I licensed the design to INCRA and worked with them during development of the retail version), I took all of this into consideration, and hopefully designed a user-friendly, flexible, and precision jig that corrects for all of the issues common to other jigs. Like any tool or machine, even the I-BOX can be set and used incorrectly, but by following the instructions and watching the hour long video, a typical user can create perfect fitting basic and decorative box joints.

[David Cramer]

Thanks a lot for posting all of the photos and detailed explanations Alan. That is a great design that you came up with and I did end up picking one up at Woodcraft, about $153 out the door. Very well built and I hope to begin using it around Thanksgiving when I have a chance to play around with it. I knew there was a reason that I waited:)

David

[Alan Schaffter]

You are welcome! PM me if you have any questions or problems.

I was going through my bookmarks yesterday and came across a link to video by David Wade showing how to make a jig to cut Greene & Greene style box joints (wide, variable sized fingers). You need to accurately rip the pins and ensure when stacked the total width is the same as your board (or adjust the width of the board if you can.) Also, it only works with a router and you need to build a jig for each size/style. But, it is a relatively simple yet very clever way to make these classy looking box joints.

Here is the link to a video about it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHGuqXUI-eg). In addition to seeing how it is made, note that he adds paper shims to correct for a "perfect" joint and later on in the video he suggests adding additional paper shims (to a new jig?) to further loosen the joint- just like adding a few tics of micro adjustment when using the I-BOX. I can't tell exactly what paper he is using, but 20 lb. bond, like I use with my printer, is .0038" thick. Also, note what the text says about the bit and bearing sizes being precisely the same.

The main point is the video clearly supports my claim that to work properly, box joint jigs must be accurate to within a few thousandths of a inch! And while you can't achieve pin widths as wide as most Greene & Greene joints, you can use the I-BOX to make ones that are close using a 3/4" blade or bit with a center-keyed joint.

[Rick Moyer]

Mine should be here day after tomorrow. Thanks Alan for your dedication to improving how we do things.

[daniel lane]

Really, really, really tempted. Have had bad luck with a router-based jig, and I'm also the type to appreciate anything that allows woodworking to four decimal places. I went to the Incra website to see a video, and tried turning on captioning on the YT video, it is quite amusing to see how they transcribe some things. For example, I'm going to make these for Thanksgiving:

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Great concept, Alan, and hope that I can contribute to your royalties soon!


daniel


P.S. Hahahahahaha! Guess I won't be scared to use it!

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