Cermark Turning Brown, Fading Months Later

[Daniel Markovich]

I metal marked these pieces of Stainless Steel back in January. Now the client just came (10 months later) to me stating this was happening to the metal pieces. I would like to help but want to make sure it was an error on my part and not something they did to them that messed it up. Has anyone had this problem before? I don't get why now all of a sudden they would start doing this.

Thanks for the help.

243800

[Rodne Gold]

Those tags look very abused to me , like they been in an etch or acid bath or something ?

[Ernie Martinez]

According to Ferro

Physical Testing of LMM-6000 Laser Marks






Laser marks were made on type 304 stainless steel tags using LMM-6000 and a CO2 Laser.





Marks were made at settings of 100% power, 12% speed, 500 DPI on a


35 watt Universal Laser.







Tags were totally immersed in the test solutions.









Exposure Time










Organic Solvents

1 Hour
12 Hours
24 Hours
1 Week


Gasoline

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Limonene

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Methyl Ethyl Ketone

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


N-Butanol

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Mineral Spirits

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Xylene

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Acetone

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Propylene Carbonate

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Ethanol

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


DMSO

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Motor Oil

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect











Acid/Bases



Hydrochloric Acid 35%

No effect
No effect
Test stopped - see notes


Nitric Acid 68%

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Sulfuric Acid (conc.)

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Acetic Acid 99.5%

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Hydrogrn Peroxide 30%

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Sodium Hydroxide 25%

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect


Ammonium Hydroxide 20%

No effect
No effect
No effect
No effect










Other



Boiling H2O

Marks soaked in boiling water for 1 hr. - no effect


LN2 (Cold)

Marks dipped in liquid nitrogen - no effect


Flame (Hot)

Marks heated in a propane flame until cherry red - metal



discolors, no effect on mark.


Hot/Cold Cycling

Marks heated red hot and immediately plunged in liquid nitrogen



- metal discolors, no effect on mark








Notes:






Hydrochloric acid testing:

- Acid dissolves the steel tag and was not run over 12 hrs. long



- After 1 hr. acid dissolved 0.2767 gms off of steel tag (4.7%),



laser mark was unaffected.



- After 12 hrs. acid dissolved 1.8057 gms off of steel tag (30.6%),



laser mark was unaffected, now having a distinctly raised feel.





Sulfuric acid testing:

- Acid discolors at approximately 96 hrs., mark appears to be



slightly discolored.





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[Rodne Gold]

Ever try removing a Cermark mark ?
We engraved 50 stainless steel vacuum flasks erroneously and no amount of stainising wheel or sanding helped to completely remove the mark , we resorted to sticking them in a lathe and taking a lick off the circumference.

[Dee Gallo]

Those tags look like they've been through the mill... literally! What were they used for, how were they used and what conditions were they exposed to in the past 10 months? Without knowing these things, you can hardly be expected to explain the wear. They could very well have been put into a tumbler for cleaning things for all you know.

[Mike Null]

I have never had a piece returned but I have had some show up on inspection before shipment. I generally attribute that to poor cleaning or poor application.

I agree with Dee that they look like they've had some abuse.

[Ralph Y Thorne]

The tags look like they have been tumbled in a parts cleaner or surface conditioner. The edges look rounded and the surfaces peened. The center photo also looks like the tag has been chemically colored.

[George D Gabert]

That looks liks surface contamination. If you used steel wool or some other carbon material to clean the SS surface then the surface was impregnated with the carbon and will show signs of surface flash rust in a very short time. We do a lot of SS fabrication here and we must passivate the surface after we fabricate to remove the surface carbon contamination and restore the surface oxide which prevents the flash rust.

[Chuck Stone]

I had the same thing happen to one of my pieces, but that was aluminum. (6063)it
turned brownish, then lighter till it was tan colored.
I thought the sun had bleached it out, since it was near a window, but
it only took a couple of months and it was sitting on a shelf with NO handling
or abuse.

I should take some pics. That was the pen that won the Ferro contest.
(never did see any prize from that contest...)

[Dan Hintz]

That was the pen that won the Ferro contest.
(never did see any prize from that contest...)

Interested in this story... I think I'd like my picture removed if I wasn't compensated, as promised.

[Chuck Stone]

it isn't that they refused.. just never caught anyone by phone and
no reply to emails. Not like i can leave a number.. I don't get cell
service here most of the time. Still .. 8 months

[Neil Pabia]

I'm wondering if those are tags that are used for identifying chrome parts, which can be exposed to all types of chemicals and gases that possibly weren't tested.

[Steve Clarkson]

uuuugh! I hate cermark.

A customer just contacted me to say that the cermarked item done 6 months ago is fading.

Do you think it's possible to use a black dye or ink (that won't stick to metal) to color/darken the cermarked areas?

[Randy Walker]

Daniel
I recently had a similar issue on some flask that I did. I determined that only the edges were discoloring and it was probably due to the curvature of the flask getting the beam out of focus. I re-sprayed them and put them back in the laser only this time I set my focus a little closer, turned the speed down a little and the ppi up to 1000. It worked. I just checked one of the flask and It is still perfect.
On yours though I agree with everyone else. They look as though they have been subjected to some very harsh conditions.


Randy Walker

[Jim Dawson]

10 months later and abused like that...... tell him it's time to buy new ones....