Thoughts on a crazy idea?

[Jimmy Noskowiak]

I've been reading for a while but never posted. Now I have a reason. I just got a SCMI sc600 and hope to start milling lumber on it. I've seen alot where they push the log through the saw but I would like some feedback on an idea of pushing the saw through the tree. I would like to build a trolley that the saw rides on tracks. There are a few reasons that I would like to try this. I would use less room and can cut longer logs. With a little modification, I can get a 20" cut by removing the table. The other thing would be setting it up so the place that will hold the log could double for indeed and outfeed tables. I'm just throughing ideas around right now and would like some feedback. I bought a house with shop that is 56' by 24' that I plan on making my woodworking shop. So I will have room but any space is valuable. I would love a bandsaw mill but the one I would like cost more then the property and all my woodworking tools cost. Hell the property was only $10000. I'm very mechanical and can build what I need. All am looking for is do you like this idea and do you think it will work? Thanks

[Paul Murphy]

I'm not sure what your intended level of use is, but the sawyer who comes to my property has a 20HP motor on his Woodmizer, and cutting 20" boards from a log seems to use the better part of that power. Your SCMI has what, about 4HP? I think the SCMI a fine saw, and I would like to have one in my own shop, but I would first look at hiring a sawer or buying a used bandmill to saw 20" logs into lumber.

[Jimmy Noskowiak]

I understand your concern but I belive there is a big difference between gas and electric. I have a neighbor with a wood mizer and he uses a 10hp electric. I'm also looking at upping hp to be better able to mill. The biggest difference would be cost. My saw was $600 with another $400 in additional cost. Thats going to save me about $10,000 for a good used mill. Plus I will be able to cut my own, to my specification when I want to.

[Gary Herrmann]

If you can make it work, I wouldn't trust the saw for anything else. I don't know how wide bandsaw mill blades are, but they gotta be wider than that saw can run. 1.5" width max?

Also thinking you'd need bearings for your track. Big ones. The saw probably weighs what - 700-800 lbs? Hope you have a good stretch of nice flat ground to do it on. Concrete pour?

Personally, I think I'd go with fixed infeed and outfeed tables and push the log. But it would require more space. Long narrow area with a roof?

I guess your idea could work with sufficient track supporting the bandsaw so it wouldn't bind. Would the saw be horizontal?

[Rick Potter]

I don't quite see how you can hold the log up. My vote is for stationary saw/moveable log on track.

A lumber yard near me makes big corbels with a band saw on casters, and stationary wood.

Rick Potter

[John McClanahan]

As for power, an old rule of thumb I use is: 1 electric HP = 2 gas HP. I think it has more to do with torque. I have found this guide used with power transmission components several times over the years.

John

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Let me say that regardless of what you do, you really should post some pictures of what you end up with.

If you desire to let the log stay stationary and move the saw, then I suppose that you must build a platform of some sort and then support that very large saw on both sides. For me, that is a non-starter since I could not even remotely do that (question of abilities).

The base must be good, and then the entire mechanism must track smoothly down the line as you push it. I assume that the saw would then be on top of (over) the log as you moved it, which means that you would also need a method to raise and lower the saw.

[Greg Portland]

I've been reading for a while but never posted. Now I have a reason. I just got a SCMI sc600 and hope to start milling lumber on it. I've seen alot where they push the log through the saw but I would like some feedback on an idea of pushing the saw through the tree. I would like to build a trolley that the saw rides on tracks. There are a few reasons that I would like to try this. I would use less room and can cut longer logs. With a little modification, I can get a 20" cut by removing the table. The other thing would be setting it up so the place that will hold the log could double for indeed and outfeed tables. I'm just throughing ideas around right now and would like some feedback. I bought a house with shop that is 56' by 24' that I plan on making my woodworking shop. So I will have room but any space is valuable. I would love a bandsaw mill but the one I would like cost more then the property and all my woodworking tools cost. Hell the property was only $10000. I'm very mechanical and can build what I need. All am looking for is do you like this idea and do you think it will work? Thanks
Are you hoping to start a milling business or do you just have a few trees you want milled? If the later, find someone with a mill and have them do the work (split the wood or pay them, either way).

Some issues / questions:
- Is 20" going to be enough throat capacity for your trees?
- How are you planning to drag the logs into position? Can the logs be dragged over the tracks? Are going to roll them over and into position instead?
- I'm assuming you'll be welding some rollers onto the saw frame to slide it up and down the tracks. Will the saw frame handle this w/o warping?
- IMO, 4-5HP is underpowered and you'll need some kind of motor ring adaptor to connect a bigger motor. Then you get into frame strength/sag issues (can it handle the extra HP). Underpowered just means that it will take a lot longer to make the cut.
- Are the guide bearings going to handle this heavy duty application & angle of use?

Frankly, I would look at an Alaskan Mill if you're doing a few trees each year (either make your own or buy the kits). If you're going through all the trouble to weld together tracks, rollers, carriages, etc., etc. then I'd go ahead and build the bandsaw as well (with a large throat capacity). Maybe you could cut an existing saw in half and expand it? (plate steel the full length for stiffness)

[Rod Sheridan]

243804I would just borrow the parts I needed from the saw such as wheel and guide assemblies.

here is the beginning of my band mill construction project..........Rod.

[John TenEyck]

The cheapest way to get a few logs milled into lumber is to hire a guy with a mill. The cheapest way to mill a few logs yourself is with an Alaskan Mill and chainsaw. I've been doing it this way for about 8 years now and have milled several thousand BF. Works fine although it's hard work. There are several benefits over other methods. It's pretty cheap, as I said, but it's also portable so you can mill anywhere, and it stores in a very small area. Plus you have a chainsaw for cutting trees, firewood, etc. Rod's homemade BS mill might be even cheaper if you had access to free steel; otherwise, it's probably the second cheapest option. Some of those units also store in very little space, if built with that thought in mind. As for modifying your BS? I think Rod's right. Take off the parts you need and make a purpose built unit.

John

[Erik Loza]

Jimmy, my gut reaction is that with your particular machine, it will more fuss and time/energy in trying to make that work than it would in either hiring a milling guy to come on-site but that is just my opinion. Not trying to discourage you, but I can see all sorts of potential issues in regards to getting the feed rate right, in order to account for the (relatively) weak motor on that saw and also just the logisitics of trying to manipulate a 24" bandsaw along a log with a relatively narrow blade. I believe the max blade width on that machine is maybe 2" and I would want to use a much stouter blade for large timber. I have never personally milled large timber on a bandsaw but the folks I know who own Woodmizers run, I think, 3"blades, so that is where I would want to start. Again, that is just my gut reaction.

I love DIY stuff. If you decide to give it a shot, then please post up. Best of luck, whatever you end up doing.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Andrew Joiner]

I understand your concern but I belive there is a big difference between gas and electric. I have a neighbor with a wood mizer and he uses a 10hp electric. I'm also looking at upping hp to be better able to mill. The biggest difference would be cost. My saw was $600 with another $400 in additional cost. Thats going to save me about $10,000 for a good used mill. Plus I will be able to cut my own, to my specification when I want to.

Jimmy, How are you going to move/lift/ rotate the logs? A 20" by 8' log is HEAVY!

So if it was me I'd pencil in some dollars for a tractor more horsepower and a solid track to roll my bandsaw on. This may add up to paying/ trading with your neighbor to saw for you.

[Jim Matthews]

It can be done.

Drop Mattias Wandel a line, he built one with a wooden back.
Woodgears (http://woodgears.ca/bandmill/index.html)

[Jimmy Noskowiak]

How I got the idea is from mills used today to cut lumber. People resaw on rigs like this all the time. I understand your concern but this isn't the first time someone has made something like this. The reason why I would like to build it is that I get access to some very interesting logs that millers will not touch. I build a lot with logs and slabs, so having the option would allow me to make more custom stuff. Think as a woodworker if you could make your own lumber to your specifications. Next spring I will be taking down 5 decent black walnut and I would rather make them into something then use them for firewood. So I hope you understand way I would like to try this. Thanks

[John TenEyck]

Contract bandsaw millers will mill most any log you want. However, if they hit embedded metal you get to buy them a new blade. That is another reason why a chainsaw mill makes a lot of sense. A new chain for my 28" bar costs about $30, so it's not a big deal if I lose one on a nice log just because it has a piece of metal. Actually, I've cut through quite a few nails w/o doing much damage to the chain. It's only when I hit a 3/8" screw from an electrical insulator that it really ruined the chain. But that was on a walnut log that yielded over 100 BF of beautiful wood, so $30 was incidental to the value of the wood. It sounds like you already have a chainsaw. If it's 75 cc's or larger, you already have the most expensive piece of equipment for chainsaw milling. A couple of ripping chains and an Alaskan Mill (or make your own) and you're ready to go.

John

[Jim Andrew]

I have a Cook MP 32 bandmill. Course I also have a farm with a creek running diagonally through it, and lots of trees. Figured I could afford all the toys if I didn't have to buy wood. But one thing I can tell you, when you start cutting trees and milling lumber, it turns into hard work. You also need a skidsteer with forks to handle the logs.

[tyler mckee]

I saw your post on forestry forum, have you thought about building a whole bandmill the same way some others have? Using trailer tires, stub axles, gas engine, etc. You would already be fabricating quite a bit, may as well go all the way and save your bandsaw for what it was intended for.

[Carl Beckett]

My $.02

I have thought of this - after seeing a number of the horizontal cutoff type bandsaws used for metal working go cheap on CL. They are already all self contained and designed to move together as a unit (they usually come down on a big billet and the weight helps push it through the cut).

And I have some trees that I hate to burn (I have this thing for rescuing wood from the firewood pile - its a disease I think... wood hoarding)

I do have a reasonable sized bandsaw (Laguna 18", 4hp), and have pushed some 'modest' size chunks through this. Approx 24" dia and 3ft long pieces of cherry. THEY ARE NOT LIGHT! If you want to do 6 ft even, they are going to weigh more than you can handle (hence not having to wrestle them up on a moving platform makes sense)

Then I start calling around..... There are guys that have a wood mizer and they charge about $.50 bf to mill ( I got a couple large trees milled for $0.10 per bf once, but that was a different region and I live in an expensive part of the world now). Some of the wood I have purchased off smaller mills is not that uniform in thickness, and not very smooth of cut. Then some of it comes nearly ready to finish - an amazing difference in uniform thickness and surface finish between equipment and expertise from someone that knows what they are doing and someone that doesnt.

For more $ they will come to me - which would be worth it if I had a big batch of fancy wood - but at the moment I do not - just cheap stuff that needs cleaned off my property and I dont want to just burn it.

So my conclusion was, that Im better off just paying for someone else to do the milling (and I didnt come to that conclusion lightly, because I kinda like to build stuff from scratch)

Then if I look on CL... used mills can be had for $2000 to $3000 - which while might not be a $10k woodmizer - are still better than anything I would be able to make myself.

(then there is this question of what exactly, am I going to DO with all this wood.....!)

[Roger Feeley]

There was an article in Fine Homebuilding some years ago about a guy who had to saw some 27' laminated beams for a house. His solution was to use two shop vacs and turn his bandsaw into a hovercraft. He suspended the beams and pushed the saw through them. That was a one-time deal though and the beams were only about 10" thick. Still, a clever solution.

[Jimmy Noskowiak]

Thanks for all of the replies. I think though we got off track a little. I'm an average gay that can't afford a mill even for $2000, hell thats more then my truck cost. I was raised with a dad that would make what he needed. He was a logger an didn't make much money but he needed a skidder so he got the cheapest one he could find. It needed to be totally rebuilt, so he took a 318 and transmission from a old station wagon, put that into the skidder and made a skidder that still will out pull most others. Like I have said, we did not have much money so we did with what we had. If we can build something that will work, maybe not optimal but work, why not try. As for having the logs sawed, I've asked the very few millers around and they will not saw them. With all that said, I guess I will have to prove that it can be done and build it. Thanks again. I really do appreciate all the post.

[Greg Portland]

Thanks for all of the replies. I think though we got off track a little. I'm an average gay that can't afford a mill even for $2000, hell thats more then my truck cost. I was raised with a dad that would make what he needed. He was a logger an didn't make much money but he needed a skidder so he got the cheapest one he could find. It needed to be totally rebuilt, so he took a 318 and transmission from a old station wagon, put that into the skidder and made a skidder that still will out pull most others. Like I have said, we did not have much money so we did with what we had. If we can build something that will work, maybe not optimal but work, why not try. As for having the logs sawed, I've asked the very few millers around and they will not saw them. With all that said, I guess I will have to prove that it can be done and build it. Thanks again. I really do appreciate all the post.
Jimmy, there are a lot of people who think they want to get into milling but don't understand what it entails. Given your background I think you do but folks just want to make sure you're doing the right thing. Rod's already building a mill (see above) and there are a couple of other DIY mills online. I think your main issue is that the existing resaw is not going to be adequate for the average oak or walnut tree. That means cutting the saw in half and enlarging or cannibalizing the parts and building a new frame. Good luck on your project!