Material options/opinions for Roubo Bench

[Russell Dunham]

I am a long time lurker here and a first time poster! Woo! I am finally looking into building a nice bench for myself. I generally like to use hand tools whenever I possibly can in my work and as such am potentially looking at a Roubo design (any opinions about this design are welcome as well). I am a poor college student and cannot afford nice hardwood for a workbench. This will be my first real bench as I have not had space for one of my own before that didn't involve old doors and scrap. The moral of my story is that my local box has some lovely Douglas Fir 8 foot 4x6's for $12 a piece (there are 10 footers for $14 or $15 as well). With 6 of these I can have a ~20 inch wide bench at just over 5 inches thick, or 24ish inches wide with 7. Would these be a good a good option for a bench top/bench material or would I be better off with 2x material? Any input would be much appreciated!

[Joe A Faulkner]

So as a poor college student what tools do you have at your disposal? Are you planning to build this bench exclusively with hand tools? I think that drawing these posts\beams together as you laminate the top is going to be a challenge unless the beams are pretty flat. I trust you have lots of clamps or friends with clamps? Big, beefy clamps. I'd personally go for closer to 24" wide. What length are you contemplating? You realize, moving this bench is going to be a real bear. Not to dissuade you, but at this stage of your life do you really want such a massive bench? You might want to consider something a little less stout that you can break down and transport until you settle down/settle in somewhere. Just something to consider.

[Russell Dunham]

I used to work in a carpentry shop in town so I can have access to large machines if need be. Some friends and I are looking into a bit of shop/studio space and I am planning to keep it there. Moving such a thing could prove to be a beast but hopefully we will be using this new space for a good while! I have been considering something held together with wedges as well, I'm not entirely convinced the 400-500 pound monstrosity is an entirely good idea yet...

[Paul Murphy]

When the big sawmills cut something like a 4x6 really meant for construction, it seems they often like to "box the heart" which is another way of saying the pith may be running through your stock. If so it is more likely to check, split, warp, or twist. Be ready to reject any stock like this.

I have seen where folks building benches out of construction lumber mention the best stock they could find often was in the stack of long 2x12 or 2x10 lumber, because it came from the butt log of a higher quality tree. They then ripped the boards oversize, and squared them up into 2x4 stock [or whater size they needed].

I'm not sure where you are located, but in my part of the country you can get rough hardwood such as ash, locust, or soft maple at a reasonable prices. If you don't mind surfacing rough lumber you can perhaps get wood that better stands up to the beating a workbench endures. Some of the lesser known local hardwoods can be a great value.

[Jim Ritter]

I agree with Paul. Is you have access to some larger tools the wider wood usually has a better yield. Think about the time for your labor, it might be better spent with a little better wood. I used Ash for my little bench and am very happy with it.

[Adam Neat]

Chris Schwarz book on workbenches show some great options using 2x12 yellow pine. Clear center cut 2x12's ripped into 3 pieces and glued edge up makes a good quarter sawn top.

I got the book and was ready to go that route but found some rough sawn maple 4x for free (they had gotten a little wormy)


Someone else here who I cant recall built a beauty of a bench using 4x4 either fir or yellow pine

[Chris Griggs]

Doug fir will make a perfectly good bench - mine is southern yellow pine. IMHO harder wood is not necessarily better wood. That said, the folks who commented about getting better wood, I absolutely agree with. If you go with homestore lumber be ready to pick thru it. Like Adam and Paul said wide 2x stock tends to be MUCH better then 4x stock, since the 4x is literally just the center of the tree. If lamination becomes an issue you may also consider an English/Nicholson bench. It has different pluses and minus than a Roubo but it is a great design and doesn't require a whole bunch of laminations. Finally, I'm not sure where you are located, but you may want to check and see if you can find a place that sells recycled lumber in your area. If you find the right place you can get some really nice, old boards and beams for pretty cheap.

Here's my Nicholson made from recycled SYP (except the maple vise chops).

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...and heres a real beauty that Schwarz just blogged about...

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Oh yeah, if you have any inclination to consider this style of bench definitely check out Bob Rozieski's (http://logancabinetshoppe.com/podcast-the-workbench.php) podcast of his bench build.

[Paul Saffold]

There is a wealth of information in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQ sticky about the various workbench builds, covering styles, material, methods etc.

[Jeff Bartley]

Just to add to the discussion: I needed a clear board for a job recently and went to the local lumber yard and looked through the 10' SYP 2x10's, I found an absolutely clear, perfectly straight, just downright beautiful 2x. The point is that if you're patient you will be able to find good stock for your bench. Seeing that SYP the other day almost made me want to build another Roubo!
And trust me when I say that after you build and work off a Roubo for a while your only regret will be not building one sooner! Jeff

[Zach Dillinger]

I would second Chris's recommendation. You might consider a Nicholson. It would do just as much work for you as a Roubo, but you actually stand a chance of moving it around with you. Until you have some stability in your life (i.e. out of school, job, etc.) , you have to assume that all work situations / locations are temporary. I wouldn't want to have to lug around a Roubo from location to location. A Nicholson would be great, as its lighter and easier to move. Roy Underhill also has a plan for a nice portable bench in one of his books.

[Jim Koepke]

Russell,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't disclose your location. I can make guesses based on the availability of Doug Fir, but those are often just guesses.

My recollection is of many suggestions to use the woods available locally to build a bench. In my area the woods that are in the low price range rotate through a variety of fir species. Fortunately there are also a lot of local saw mills where one can find the real deals. I bought a load of rough ash at a price effectively below $1 a board foot.

Finding local sawyers takes a bit of searching and networking.

Douglas fir is a great wood for benches. The mill that sold me my ash had a large pile of Douglas fir recycled from an old barn. It was almost my choice for building a bench. He wanted to sell it all as one lot. At the time the money and storage space wasn't available for me to snag it. If my two car garage (shop) was empty it still wouldn't all have been able to fit inside.

If you make your bench with a removable base, it won't be impossible to move if it ever needs moving. A few friends, some dollies, a truck and a case of beer will make just about any object movable. Just save the beer until the job is done.

Whatever you do, take a lot of pictures and post them here. Just about everyone here likes to see a bench build with their morning coffee.

jtk

[Andrae Covington]

Jim and I live in a part of the country where even home center 4x6's can turn out to be pretty nice Douglas-fir, if you're willing to sift through the pallets. You may be fortunate in that regard as well, or you may live in an area where you are better off ripping the quartersawn edges from 2x12's and gluing the top that way, or finding a cheap(er) source of hardwoods.

As I've said in too many threads, I went to a local place called the Rebuilding Center and bought reclaimed 2x4's that were rift- and quarter-sawn tight-grained old-growth Douglas-fir. It was more expensive than the second-growth (third-growth, fourth-growth) constuction-grade you'll find at the home center, but much less than the milled "vertical grain fir" available at local woodworking stores. Beautiful stuff, and very stable, but it sure was a lot of work preparing and then gluing them together. If I were to build another Roubo I would probably look for 4x6, 4x8, etc. beams.

If you prefer the Roubo style over some of the other suggestions, you can make it move-able; I did. I did not glue the entire top together in one piece, but rather four sections, then lag-screwed those together. I was able to lift and move each quarter section by myself. A thick top like that (even only 3" thick like mine ended up) only needs a couple dowels sticking out of the legs, or more lag screws, to keep it from sliding around. I know, almost everyone makes the impressive and robust tenon-and-sliding-dovetail connection from the legs into the top. There's nothing wrong with overkill on a workbench, but you don't have to do that. That said, if the top is essentially going to float instead of being rigidly connected, you should probably add upper stretchers on the short ends, as I did. My long stretchers are held in place with keyed through tenons, so can be broken down.

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[David Barbee]

If it were me I would use southern yellow pine. Mostly for weight. At the box storers you generally have to buy larger boards to get them in SYP. I think at my local store anything 10" wide and larger is SYP. The added weight is beneficial and as a added bonus, the larger beams are generally better wood. You might want to think about that 5 in' thick top though. about 3.5 would be plenty. A 5" x 24" x 8' top in SYP would weight about 280 lbs. Not to mention that some holdfasts have trouble grabbing in a top that thick.

[Paul Cahill]

I spent a good bit on vices, but the bench itself was only about $130 for the SYP at the Borgs in Chattanooga. Not as pretty as the hardwood benches, but very functional.

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I used all 2x10 or 12 boards and it took several trips to get enough good boards. There were some knots, but I was able to bury them in the body of the top.

Good luck with your endeavor.

Paul

[ken hatch]

Construction grade DF or SYP, makes a good bench. I have a small SYP bench that was built over 30 years ago and it is still in use everyday. BenchCrafted http://www.benchcrafted.com/index.html has plans for a split top Roubo that was designed to be broken down and moved. I built my big Roubo out of SYP using their plans and hardware, as I did not need mobility I debated making the top as a single slab instead of split. I had already decided to attach the top and base by drawboring the tenons. The relative ease of working two smaller slabs instead of a massive single slab was deciding, after using the split top for a while it was a very good decision, not because of ease of building but because the split top and the center divider are very useful for holding tools and work.

[Jim Koepke]

Ken,

Welcome to the Creek. My guess is if you can find SYP in the box stores you likely live east of the Rockies.


If it were me I would use southern yellow pine. Mostly for weight. At the box storers you generally have to buy larger boards to get them in SYP. I think at my local store anything 10" wide and larger is SYP.

I was hoping to build my bench of SYP. Unfortunately, for me to do that the only way to find some SYP was to drive across the country and bring some home.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, it rains a lot. Even many of the so called hardwoods are soft. Poplar and alder are two very abundant woods. With all the rain, it grows fast meaning that the growth rings are not tightly spaced.

jtk

[Chris Griggs]

Not as pretty as the hardwood benches, but very functional.



I disagree...its every bit as pretty. That is fantastic bench in both look and function!

[Paul Cahill]

I disagree...its every bit as pretty. That is fantastic bench in both look and function!

Thanks, Chris.

Paul

[Joey Chavez]

I built my bench out of SYP, top is 4" thick, legs are 5"x5". It's really not that hard to move around on my garage floor. However, I have considered the workbench casters from Rockler. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30842&site=ROCKLER

[Paul Incognito]

Hey Russell,
If you're anywhere near Wilmington, DE, I have a biiig pile of old growth yellow pine 3x12 beams that are begging to be workbenches.
Free for the taking.
Paul

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Welcome to the Creek. My guess is if you can find SYP in the box stores you likely live east of the Rockies.



I was hoping to build my bench of SYP. Unfortunately, for me to do that the only way to find some SYP was to drive across the country and bring some home.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, it rains a lot. Even many of the so called hardwoods are soft. Poplar and alder are two very abundant woods. With all the rain, it grows fast meaning that the growth rings are not tightly spaced.

jtk

Jim,

Thanks.

Actually I live in DF country, Tucson, but the stuff I could find in our local HDs wasn't attractive. I tried to order some select DF and HD kept saying they would get back to me with price and availability but I finally gave up and drove to Austin, TX for some SYP. I found a little over 400 BF of 10' 2X12 SYP that had good quarter sawn wood on each side in an hour of picking through one HD's stacks. It ended up costing about $1.30 USD/BF including the drive to and from Austin. It was win win, I got to build my bench with SYP, had a good road trip, and I was able to visit the BBQ Capital of the world....Lockhart-Luling, TX where I had my usual: Two links, two slices of brisket, and three ribs, with a Big Red at Luling's City Market. It doesn't get any better.

BTW, I used about 300 BF on the Roubo, so I still have 100 BF or so left for something, just not sure what.

kmh

[Roy Lindberry]

I am a long time lurker here and a first time poster! Woo! I am finally looking into building a nice bench for myself. I generally like to use hand tools whenever I possibly can in my work and as such am potentially looking at a Roubo design (any opinions about this design are welcome as well). I am a poor college student and cannot afford nice hardwood for a workbench. This will be my first real bench as I have not had space for one of my own before that didn't involve old doors and scrap. The moral of my story is that my local box has some lovely Douglas Fir 8 foot 4x6's for $12 a piece (there are 10 footers for $14 or $15 as well). With 6 of these I can have a ~20 inch wide bench at just over 5 inches thick, or 24ish inches wide with 7. Would these be a good a good option for a bench top/bench material or would I be better off with 2x material? Any input would be much appreciated!

You can find decent Doug Fir at the box stores, but usually not in 4x6 or bigger, because as somebody already said, they usually box the pith. However, I'm currently building a Scandanavian style bench and I went to the Orange Store and sorted through the Doug Fir 4x4s and found a good handful of quartersawn material. So I've used it for the base, and was toying with using it for the top - but here is the only problem I've found: DF dents pretty easily. It works pretty easily, and is very strong, but because of its softness, I've decided not to use it for the top. For the price, it was perfect choice for the base, though.

If you choose to use it, I would be very picky about the boards I bought. I'd look for quartersawn material, and try to find stuff with the growth rings tightly packed together. Most of my material had a good 1/8" or more between rings, and that might account for the ease of denting.

[Rodney Walker]

Tight grain is good when you can find it. As far as quartersawn goes, it depends.
If you're buying 4x6 material and using the 6" side on top, you want quartersawn.
If you're ripping 2x12s and the 2" edge is your bench top, you'll want plain sawn material. That way when you cut it, the quartersawn face will be your top. It may end up being more rift sawn than quartersawn, but that's ok too.
Doug fir does dent easily. It also splinters easily when you work with it. Even with those issues, it's plenty good enough for a work bench unless you insist it must look like fine furniture.
Rodney

[Andrae Covington]

...but here is the only problem I've found: DF dents pretty easily. ... Most of my material had a good 1/8" or more between rings, and that might account for the ease of denting.

You are right about that. Douglas-fir trees grown for harvesting are felled well within their "adolescence". In the early years the trees grow quickly, especially during the spring. So the lighter-colored, softer earlywood rings tend to be relatively wide, sometimes as much as 1/2". This is the part that is susceptible to denting. Our short but dry summers in the Northwest make the darker latewood rings comparably thinner and harder.

After about 75 to 100 years, the growth rates slow down. This is not only due to aging but also the increased size of neighboring trees creating more competition for sun, rain, and soil nutrients. Of course there are other variables, such as periods of increased rainfall or more sun, drought, fires, etc. Left alone, Douglas-fir trees can easily live 500 years, occasionally over 1000. Those centuries of slower growth produced narrow earlywood rings, often only slightly wider than the latewood rings. Lumber milled from those old-growth trees is more resistant to denting. However, it is more brittle in my experience.

Another downside of the adolescent Douglas-fir trees is that, unless prevented by man or machine, branches will form nearly to the forest floor. The resulting timber therefore is plagued with knots. After about a century of growth, the trunk will be clear up to around 30 feet.

[Roy Lindberry]

You are right about that. Douglas-fir trees grown for harvesting are felled well within their "adolescence". In the early years the trees grow quickly, especially during the spring. So the lighter-colored, softer earlywood rings tend to be relatively wide, sometimes as much as 1/2". This is the part that is susceptible to denting. Our short but dry summers in the Northwest make the darker latewood rings comparably thinner and harder.

After about 75 to 100 years, the growth rates slow down. This is not only due to aging but also the increased size of neighboring trees creating more competition for sun, rain, and soil nutrients. Of course there are other variables, such as periods of increased rainfall or more sun, drought, fires, etc. Left alone, Douglas-fir trees can easily live 500 years, occasionally over 1000. Those centuries of slower growth produced narrow earlywood rings, often only slightly wider than the latewood rings. Lumber milled from those old-growth trees is more resistant to denting. However, it is more brittle in my experience.

Another downside of the adolescent Douglas-fir trees is that, unless prevented by man or machine, branches will form nearly to the forest floor. The resulting timber therefore is plagued with knots. After about a century of growth, the trunk will be clear up to around 30 feet.


Yes, and while I wasn't very specific, that 1/8" between the rings was on the end grain. The surface area of the spring growth on the face is quite a bit more, especially when the quartersawn starts drifting a little more to riftsawn/plainsawn (which on a 4x4 are the same thing).

[Russell Dunham]

Thank you everyone for your replies! I actually just ran into a guy who runs a saw mill in town! I've been talking a bit to him about what I'm looking for in some lumber so hopefully he will be able to help me out! I have been thinking about something that can be taken apart as it would probably be helpful. A few college students pumped full of free pizza and beer can move a lot but who knows about a beastly beast of a bench!