subpanel question

[Bob Cooper]

i just finished the electrical rough in. passed inspection. now i'm thinking about how tough it will be to add circuits in the future so i'm wondering if i can now move my subpanel from an "in the wall" panel to a "on the wall" panel. All the existing wire would be in the wall. Can i do the following:


pull the panel forward so it sits proud of the studs by 1/2"
re-route the existing wires so that they enter the panel throug the back


Thoughts?

[Andrew Howe]

I used 1/2" mdf all around the sub panel I put in on a studded basement wall. Any time I need a new circuit, I just unscrew the mdf boards and run new wire. My sub panel sits out 1/2" of the studs just like the main panel.

[Bob Cooper]

well i'm thinking if i need to add a new cicuit there's really no way to run it inside the wall/ceiling thus the need to run the wire in conduit on the outside of the drywall...so to do that i think i'd need to have the subpanel on the outside of the drywall.

[Chris Damm]

That's why my panel is surfaced mounted and all circuits are in conduit. It is very easy to change circuit.

[Lee Schierer]

I would guess, that moving the panel forward 1/2" wouldn't be a problem unless it puts strain on the wires that are already in place. However, rerouting the wires through the back I suspect would require a re-inspection since that would involve pulling all the wires out of the panel and re-installing them. A quick call to your inspector would answer both questions definitively.

Why not simply add removable wall panels above and below the box to allow access for future work?

[Tom Wassack]

Greetings from NC!
When I built my shop 10+ years ago, I stubbed 3/4" PVC conduit from the top and bottom of the main service panel through the top and bottom plate and installed a cap over each (dry - no cement). This will allow for future expansion if required. I also did the same for the 3 phase sub-panel. These were actually suggestions from the electrical inspector!

Regards,
Tom Wassack

[Steve Meliza]

I was about to suggest what Tom did, put some empty conduit in place now while you have easy access. 3/4" is a great size because it is still economical, fits in the walls nicely, and has enough room for several #10 wires should you need to add some big circuits down the line. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that one or two really big conduits can hold more wires than several smaller ones. Code requirements limit the number of wires in each conduit so 1/2" and 3/4" are the sweet spot for the circuits we typically use.

If you ultimately need to get the conduit run from inside the wall to a surface run then you can install that transition now and just have it end there till needed. For EMT I ran 3/4" inside the wall from my panel to up near the ceiling. I connected to a 4" metal box inside the wall and screwed a mud ring to it. Then I took a 4" box extension ring and put a mud ring on it and screwed the two mud rings together. This 4" extension ring is now sitting on the surface of the wall and had 1/2" EMT connected to it (I didn't need 3/4" so I only used it in the walls). Once the wires were pulled in I put a blank 4" cover plate on the top of the extension ring. I don't have any good pictures of this handy, but can try to get some if needed.

[Bob Cooper]

i have no problem putting a removable component (mdf/plywood/..) above/below the subpanel to give me access or putting conduit from the top of the panel through the top plate. But it's not clear how much that helps given that the wires need to go across (perpendicular to) ceiling joists or across studs most likely to get to their final destination. I can't really pull the wires into an attic or crawl space.

So this subpanel sits in a basement and the shop if directly overhead. Above the shop is a garage apartment that pretty much has little to no attic.

Steve...what you did is kind of what i'm thinking but if there's a way to keep this stuff 'in wall' i'd be happy to do it.

[Chris Friesen]

i have no problem putting a removable component (mdf/plywood/..) above/below the subpanel to give me access or putting conduit from the top of the panel through the top plate. But it's not clear how much that helps given that the wires need to go across (perpendicular to) ceiling joists or across studs most likely to get to their final destination. I can't really pull the wires into an attic or crawl space.

Technically you're allowed to run new wires on the wall as long as it meets code (high enough, no danger of being hit, etc.) My wiring for my lights is just running along the ceiling surface. While it may be ugly, you could just have a removable component above the panel, run the wires along the surface to the edge of the removable component, then just "plunge" them into the wall to enter the panel.

[Sam Layton]

My suggestion would be, put a 2x4 on each side of where the panel goes, from floor to ceiling. Install a door on the top and bottom of the panel for future access, and dry wall the rest. Now you have created a large run, and access for future use. I have several sub panels and bumped them all out with 2x4's, making the wiring a lot easer.

Sam

[Jim Neeley]

Be careful about implementing any solution that involves removing (and not replacing) a section of sheetrock, especially when it is associated with an attached garage, as the sheetrock provides a "fire barrier". This is a code issue and is the reason why you see even unfinished / uninsulated garages with sheetrock on the wall adjoining the house.

Doing so would likely lead to insurance coverage issues, should you have a fire.

There are code exceptions to this, but they are very specific.

Yes, I know that many people do this. As long as there is not fire (or you go to sell the house where a building inspector is involved) there isn't a problem. Still...

Just my $0.02...

[Kevin Presutti]

I have found whenever people have done these types of things that they always short themselves outlets and power taps. It is always a delema when you want to board your shop but want access to add circuits with little or no fuss or mess. I like the I/2" MDF idea but if all your taps on the top of the panel are used then you have to go in the sides or bottom which is always more challenging. With the MDF removeable panel and the top of the panel fairly open if that stud bay were left open to the attic then adding circuits becomes more doable. If you are concerned about adding power what would you possibly do later that you are not doing now? I know that sounds like I'm asking you to tell the future but those are things you should think about now and how you would do it later if you don't do it now. I am going through a similar situation, but I won't be boarding the walls or ceilings at least at this point. I will be doing that project this spring so I am thinking about it now. If you're good at repairing drywal then you should have no problem : ) LOL Good Luck!

Kevin