Veritas twin screw and large front vice

[Mike Gillispie]

Hello,I've been lurking here for a little while. I just found my veritas twin screw and my large front vise (lee valley) that I had bought for an never started bench in 2004. Due to multiple tours and overseas duties, I haven't seen some of my stuff since early 2005.Anyhow, I'm thinking about installing the twin screw as a front vice and the large front vice as end vice. Am I crazy? Just trying to get some others thoughts on this.The bench will be made of heart luan...it is not bad stuff...the luan most of you know is the sap wood. Plus it is all I really have available in my current location (korea). I do have both of the Swartz books and also the Landis and I've selectively read back through page 300 in the neanderthal forum. Thanks.

Mike

[Dave Beauchesne]

Mike:

Good luck with the project - If you go with the Twin Screw vice ( I have one ) others have posted and IIRC the instructions state that they must be followed to a tee.
I did so and had no troubles, but this may be a case where drifting away from the instructions a bit are not good.

Dave Beauchesne

[Mike Gillispie]

Dave, I already have bith vises. My thought is to use the twin screw in the front rather than the side as many others have done. And use the front vise on the side (this is the only part that gives me pause). I will not be drifting away from the basic instructions of the twin screw.

Bench will be 24x96, made mostly of heart luan, with maple chops. I'm shooting for 4in Thickness-- which I understand may cause me grief with the twin screw and I may need inlet channels for the screws.

Thanks

Mike

[John Coloccia]

First, thank you for your service.

The only issue with a vice like that on the end of your bench that you will likely have dog holes, and the end vice will be responsible for most of the clamping with dogs. These little "front vises" (most here would call them face vises....whacky Canadians) tend to rack no matter who you get them from unless they're rather specially made (like on my Sjobergs bench, for example). I would personally very strongly consider mounting the vice as close to the front of the bench as I possibly could to get the dogs as close to the center of the vise as possible. 99% of the time, you will be using it as a tail vice with dogs and this will save you considerable frustration.

Better yet, consider selling that vice and buying a proper tail vice if that's how you intend to use it.

[David Keller NC]

Mike - Many folks have used a small iron "face" vise as an end-vise on a bench. As John notes, the problem with doing this is that it's impossible to both place the vise so that the dog in the moving jaw is centered on the jaw, and keep the line of dogs for use with the end vise close to the front of the bench.

My advice would be to ignore the racking issue and place the dog hole line for your end vise as close to the front of the bench as possible. It's true that in theory you'll eventually destroy the iron vise from racking it, but you're likely to be very old and gray by the time that happens. And replacing an iron "face" vise is a fairly inexpensive task.

If you're going to be shipping this bench back to the States when your tour ends, and you want to make this the last bench you'll ever build to take you into retirement, then yeah, it might be better to purchase a purpose-made end vise.

BTW - The veritas twin-screw can be mounted on just about any thickness bench, it's just that the screws won't be vertically centered on the bench thickness.

And I'll second John's thought - thanks for your service to our country!

[Mike Gillispie]

I will think long and hard about a new vice....was trying to be little frugal and this point as I believe I've funded Rob Lee's retirement plan for the year with a bunch of new plane purchases within the past month.

I may go with benchcrafted's wagon vice ; I was looking hard at their take on the Moxon as well.

Thanks

Mike

[Derek Stockley]

BTW - The veritas twin-screw can be mounted on just about any thickness bench, it's just that the screws won't be vertically centered on the bench thickness.

I have a veritas twin screw that I use as a tail vise, and I've had it mounted in two different benches. In my first installation, the top was only 2 1/4" thick, and on the second, it is more like 3 1/2". On the first installation, my vise jaws were made with the minimum possible dimensions according to the instructions, and on the second installation, I mounted the screws about an inch lower to get more depth in the jaw. My opinion is that it worked much better with the minimum possible dimensions. Because of the way it's built, it won't rack along the length of the jaw, but it does rack from top to bottom. The installation instructions compensate for this by telling you to taper the jaw from top to bottom, which does work, but it seems to me that the amount of taper required varies based on how tall your jaw is. My first installation didn't close completely with the taper they recommended, the second does. The difference in vertical racking between my first and second installations is considerable, particularly when used with dogs. So much so that I'm actually considering rebuilding my current installation to the minimum height.

With your planned 4" thickness, I'd definitely recommend routing channels in the underside of the top for the screws.

[Bob Jones]

Most people put the dog holes really close to the front. I put mine about 7 inches back and I like it that way. Do whatever you want. I made my own wagon vise, but the bench crafted stuff is better.

While in Korea be sure to use local wood and such. After you come home you will not have that opportunity!

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

Welcome to the Creek and thank you for serving our country.
My son and family is also in Korea serving with the Air Force.

I see nothing wrong with your ideas for vise placement.

A twin screw vise on the face is great for dovetailing wider boards and is helpful holding longer pieces for edge joining.

As for racking, Lee Valley offers a solution and it is not difficult to make your own.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=69605&cat=1,41659

Here is different idea from my shop:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?183743-Anti-Rack-Spacer-Stack

Good luck and God bless,

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I would mount the twin screw vise vertically, at the SE corner of the bench (as you face it) if you're left handed.

Otherwise, it's going to be in the way every time you plane the length of your bench.

It's rare I need to hold a wide board on edge for dovetailing, and that's when an appliance like the Moxxon pays off.

In short, I think it best to have access to the front of the bench without having to work around obstacles.
Have a look at Bob Rozaieski's Logan Cabinet Shoppe podcasts (http://logancabinetshoppe.com/about.php)for thoughts on designing bench fixtures
to follow your preferred methods of work.

I'm opposed to having tools dictate my methods, and that includes my bench.

[Mike Gillispie]

Update, I've got part of the top glued up. As of now, it it slightly over 8' and 3 3/4" thick. I've got 13" of it glued up and need to join and plane the other 9-10". I have access to a 14" joiner and a 24" planer so I'm shooting for around 22-23 inches overall.

On a side note, I did get to use my pexto brace and a 3/4" bit to make a series of dog holes for the back row ---one every 6 inches ( the front will be every 3"). The forsner bit I was using on the drill press only went about half way through so I finished up with the brace. I had ebayed a large lot of bits that came in a ratty canvas tool role. I was pleasantly surprise that most of them were barely used and some even still had red packing wax on the ends. Mostly Irwin with a few other name brands.

Any how it cut like butter (of course this is luan..not oak or ash)up until this point I've only used ( sparingly) old ratty bits the my dad picked over the years at farm auctions. I'm amazed at the difference a semi sharp bit with a good screw makes.

[Jim Matthews]

[QUOTE=Mike Gillispie;1994084I'm amazed at the difference a semi sharp bit with a good screw makes.[/QUOTE]

My wife says much the same about me...

[Jim Neeley]

I have a LV twin-screw set up on my 3-3/4" thick work bench. In lieu of routing into the bench, you can choose top just make the skirt and chop wider. In my case I went with 8" and lowered the screw, giving the vise a deeper throat.

The most significant design difference between the LV and L-N twin screws (I have one of each and an Emmert clone on my bench) is the screw on the LV attaches to the rear jaw while on the L-N it attaches to the underside of the bench. This difference allows you to deepen the throat on the LV simply by using wider skirt and chop instead of shimming out the bench top hoever it also means the joint between the rear jaw and the fence must be made beefier since it takes the torque for any dog work.

Each has advantages. JUst my opinion and YMMV..

Jim