Laser reviews

[Mark Bowman]

Hi Everyone! I'm new on this site, and I'm loving it so far.

We have a family sign business that has been running for 42 years now, and engraving is our bread and butter. We have two lasers, and two rotary machines. Both of our lasers are Universal, and one is nearing the end of it's life. I'm not partial to Universal one bit, and I'm wondering if I can get some un-biased reviews/opinions on other people's experiences with the big three (Trotec, Universal, Epilog).

Regards,
Mark

[Mark Ross]

We have 2 Epilog 36EXT's. Becuase of their outstanding customer service we bought a second one without hesitation. It is nice having 2 identical machines, makes for ease of use for the operator and easier maintenance for me since I don't have to learn a different machine. We beat on these things 8-10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. We have had small fires that we caught quickly and the machines suffered no damage. I just wish our preventative maintenance schedule was actually preventative instead of waiting to fix it until it breaks.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Ditto on the ext. Maintenance is key and we've have little issue with ours. We had a significant "flame situation" but suffered no damage and after a quick clean up, it was ready to go. Only thing I wish it had was a pass through for larger pieces, but it's not that big of a deal.

[Scott Shepherd]

Welcome Mark! Spend some time with the search features. There are many, many posts about each machine and reviews of them. Several years ago, I did a larger review between and Epilog and a Universal. It's still here somewhere, but it highlighted the strong and weak points of each machine to some small degree.

I don't believe anyone can recommend ANY brand of machine without knowing more about what you hope to accomplish with your new laser, and what type of things you use it for. Do you mostly vector cut, mostly raster, 50/50? What types of materials? There are many factors and without knowing more about what you hope to accomplish, it's hard to tell you what one might do better or worse than the other.

[Mark Bowman]

Thanks Everyone for the feedback so far.

Scott, we do a wide variety. From name plates/badges, engraved and ADA signs, engraving on glass (wine glasses, beer mugs, etc.), metal marking (cerdec), legend plates, you name it. So we do a lot of both raster and vector on engraving stock (Rowmark), acrylic, aluminum, stainless steel, etc. I have been interested in the Trotec Flexx, as I wouldn't mind eliminating the use of cerdec all together. We don't do enough metal marking to justify getting strictly a fiber laser or jag, that is why the flex is appealing to me. I know that Epilog does not have a flex, so if I go that way, it's between the Trotec and Universal.

Any comments are appreciated, you can never have too much knowledge!

[Rodne Gold]

The problem is that it's unlikely you will get an unbiased opinion from owners..most are quite loyal and thus biased to the brand they own..

[Mark Sipes]

And just to prove Rodne right... Buy Trotec, Great support, Great software, Great Machine. But that is all I have had and would not hesitate to buy another. 14 years and only needed a tube recharge and an x - motor.

[Mark Bowman]

On the other hand, to prove Rodne wrong, we've only had Universal laser's, and I can't say I would strongly recommend it over another brand. To be honest, I've seen both trotec and epilog, and have been more impressed with them over the Universal.

[Scott Shepherd]

I think people are perfectly capable of giving honest reviews of equipment. Having owned all 3 of the listed machines, I can tell you pros and cons on all 3 of them. I'm not loyal to any manufacturer. I'm not on the payroll, and I paid for the machines, so I'll call it like I see it from my standpoint. The biggest issue I see is some people have only run one machine so they don't know what's available on other machines or how they differ, in most cases.

What model Universals do you have that you aren't thrilled with? What's the issues that cause you to feel that way about them? Perhaps it's something that's been changed in the new models.

[Mark Bowman]

It's not that I don't like the Universal's, they've done really well for us. The one machine is 14 years old, and has never had any problems, which includes the original tube (don't ask me how it's lasted this long). That machine is the M300, and we have a much smaller versa, which also does very well. I'm more just saying that just because I own two, doesn't mean I would be saying "Universal's are the best machines, no need to buy anything else". I was hoping to hear from people who might have owned/used at least a couple different machines and could honestly compare.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts.

[Mike Null]

My first machine was a Universal 25 watt. Good machine. I operated two 100 watt Epilogs for about three years. These machines were in heavy use making plaques, metal plates and acrylic items. They worked well enough but I was on a first name basis with everybody at tech support.

A little over 6 years ago I bought a Trotec Speedy 300. The Trotec is so superior in every way that I would not consider another brand. The guy I was working for also bought Trotec and got rid of the Epilogs. Another high volume shop here in St. Louis bought their Trotec a couple of months before I bought mine. They have now sold all their Epilogs and now have 3 Trotecs including a Fiber unit.

[Scott Shepherd]

A couple things that make them VERY different machines....

Universal and Trotec both use a "Job Control" system. When you send the job to the laser, it goes into a Job Control package where you can save settings, change settings, and generally move things around the laser. One the job is run, it's still in the Job Control side of things, so you can come back to that job 1 week later, or maybe 6 months later, depending on how you have it setup and how many jobs you run, and you can see exactly what you did for a specific job. If you so desired, you could run that exact job again without ever opening up a graphics package.

Programmable Z-Axis. Universal and Trotec both have programmable Z's, so it moves the table up and down automatically. It also allows you to do things like map colors to different heights. So you can raster perfectly in focus, maybe vector mark out of focus for a fatter line, and then come back into focus to vector cut. I think the Universal probably does this a little better than the Trotec, but both do it.

The Epilog sends the job over like a printer. When you send it, it goes into the machine, when you turn the machine off, the job is gone. So you can't pull up past jobs and look at any settings. You'd have to save those settings and send the job over again. The Epilog doesn't have a programmable Z Axis, so you have to either manually focus on everything or use the automatic focus for every single job. It you want things done and different focal points, you'd have to do that all manually, one color at a time.

The Trotec uses high speed servo motors and the Universal uses high speed stepper motors. I can tell you one thing, watching the Trotec run and then watching the Universal run, it's like watching paint dry on the Universal. There really is no comparison between the 2 on speed.

The Universal gives you a FANTASTIC set of tools to fine tune your engraving. I think it's the best in the business, bar none. I think the Trotec has all those same features, but they aren't front and center like the Universal, so you have to get into some deeper settings to get to some of those things.

I find that material engraves different. If I were doing a 6 pt font in black/white engraving plastic, and I have the machine "tuned" for it to be razor sharp, if I put a metallic engraving material in, then my razor sharp text will need to be adjusted a little. The great thing is that once I make that adjustment, I can save that material setting and all my tuning is there. I don't see that level of it on the Trotec, being able to tune for materials. It's more of a 1 time thing, as far as I can tell.

There are loads and loads of differences. I'd be happy to talk more about any of them if there is something specific you want. Things have changed a LOT since the M300 :) What a great machine!

Hope that helps some.

[Ross Moshinsky]

To correct one thing Steve said, Epilog can store jobs on the internal memory so if you have a job you run every week, you can store it and recall it.

I'm also going to throw out some negatives about the Job Control software.
1. If your computer freezes or the USB handshake is dropped, you can have some problems.
2. Networking the laser is not as cut and dry as if it would be if it was simply a printer. All he jobs are sent to the computer that has the job control software and from there you have to go onto that computer and load the jobs. If you have 2+ workers who want to use the laser independently, you will need to set up a "print server".

For me, the Trotec seems to be the most innovative laser on the market at the moment and the best for people who do a lot of raster engraving. If you do vector cutting all day long, I don't think the Trotec's advantages are there. Their pricing, as long as you get trade show pricing, is also pretty much the best out there.

[Mark Bowman]

Thanks Mike and Scott! Great advice/input, it's really appreciated. I live in Canada (outside of Toronto), and there aren't any other shops near us that have a Trotec, everyone is either Epilog, or Universal (and maybe one or two chinese laser's). My only way to narrow down my search for a new laser is by doing lots of research, and you all have been very helpful!

[Scott Shepherd]

1. If your computer freezes or the USB handshake is dropped, you can have some problems.


I've been running the Universal for 4 years now. I'll let you know when that happens. On the other hand, I can find dozens and dozens of threads where people on Epilog's have had their job not go over or not work when over there.

One is theory, one is reality. In theory, your computer could crash during the operation. In reality, it doesn't, or doesn't happen enough to even warrant a bullet point.

You might be able to save a job on the Epilog now, but you can't pull that job up and save the settings and apply those settings to another job.

[Mike Null]

Ross

I have had a very few instances when the USB "handshake" is dropped. It has never occurred in the middle of a job and when it has occurred which seems to be when I'm sending a job all I have to do is restart the machine. Again, that is rare. I have not encountered freezing.

Steve

You can tune and save for as many materials as you want. Am I missing something?

[Ross Moshinsky]

I've been running the Universal for 4 years now. I'll let you know when that happens. On the other hand, I can find dozens and dozens of threads where people on Epilog's have had their job not go over or not work when over there.

One is theory, one is reality. In theory, your computer could crash during the operation. In reality, it doesn't, or doesn't happen enough to even warrant a bullet point.

You might be able to save a job on the Epilog now, but you can't pull that job up and save the settings and apply those settings to another job.

Your position on this is dead wrong. Just because your computer doesn't freeze doesn't mean others don't. One bad Windows update could change everything. Simply forgetting to take the computer out of sleep mode can cause the job to stop.

There is a reason why all print shops have print servers and a lot of them run Windows Server and not Windows 7. It's also why CNC machines typically run off a computer that is only there to run the CNC. Freezing happen and when it does, it can be costly. I spoke to people at Universal and Trotec and they both agreed that although they don't get a lot of complaints about freezing, they agree that if a freeze does occur, it can be problematic.

[Scott Shepherd]

Ross, let's put reality into play. Use the search function and tell me how many people running job control had issues. Now, use it and tell me how many Epilog problems came from USB problems. The Universal Job Control USB driver is rock solid and I'll put it against anyone in the business.

Your premise that you should stay away from job control because it "might" have a connection issue "one day" versus all the benefits you get from it doesn't make sense. Like is a risk/reward. I'll risk a connection issue to have Job Control every single day, 7 days a week. We've had no less than 4 computers on the ULS and I've never seen that happen. I'll take those risks to have job control and the power of it.