Epic Meber Holz SR-DS 500 Bandsaw?

[Brad Olson]

I have an opportunity to buy a Epic/Meber/Holz SR-DS 500 bandsaw for about $1200. I think it is actually a Meber saw that is a subsidary of Holz.

Any opinions on this saw? It is a big beefy Italian saw from what I can tell, just not a common brand. Should be about 10 years old or so, so purchased between 2000 to 2002 range.

Any idea is parts, especially tires are still available?

It appears to be a 500 mm saw or ~19-20" with a 2 HP motor. Italian made from what I can tell.

I'm going to go see it tomorrow. The table is rusty since it has been in storage, but otherwise looks good.

Thanks for any input.

[Erik Loza]

Brad, Meber are high quality saws. Holz more than likely just branded it under their own name, which is a pretty common practice in the bandsaw industry. I am not aware of any parts dealers for Meber here in the US but that being said, unless it is a major structural component that needs replacing or is missing, the wearables (bearings, tires, electrics) are pretty easy to find among other US distributors. Any 20" poly tires ought to work, if there is that need. The only potential issue I can see is that you might be disappointed with the resawing power. That motor is small and probably 50Hz, to boot. Obviously, that is going to be your call on whether or not it's an issue.

Hope this helps and best of luck,

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Brad Olson]

Thanks Erik for the info.

I totally forgot that some import bandsaws have the 50 Hz motors, so they have reduced speed correct?

I know 5 HP is ideal, but would a 2 HP 50 Hz motor impact resaw capabilities significantly?

My old Grizzly 18" bandsaw that I had before I moved had a 3 HP motor and the only time I bogged it down was with a 12" piece of bubinga that was binding up the blade.

[Jamie Buxton]

...I totally forgot that some import bandsaws have the 50 Hz motors, so they have reduced speed correct?...

If an individual bought a European saw and imported it himself, it would likely have a 50 Hz motor. But if Holz-Her imported it, they'd likely have changed the motor to 60 Hz.

[Peter Quinn]

I have a meber 500, 3hp, sold under the meber name, it's a fine saw that IMO rivals any of the Italian saws of that era, mine is about 10 years old, I bought it second hand but it had never been used. The table tilt is not the most convienent thing ever but it works well enough, otherwise it's a well designed machine with good guides, soft start, the frame is very stout, good tool. Mine resaws fine up to its 12 3/8" capacity, you don't need 5hp to resaw 12"'s. I think there is still a us distributor down south somewhere, I'll check my links when I get home.

[Peter Kelly]

If an individual bought a European saw and imported it himself, it would likely have a 50 Hz motor. But if Holz-Her imported it, they'd likely have changed the motor to 60 Hz.
Holz was an importer of mostly Italian-made woodworking machinery in northern NJ. Separate entity from Holz-Her.

They've been gone for some years now.

[Brad Olson]

Thanks Peter. Any info you might have would be really useful. I'll know more about the saw when I kick its tires this evening.

[Peter Kelly]

To clarify, I think Holz was somehow a label of Rudolph Bass Inc. Their contact info: http://www.rudolfbassinc.net/contact.html

I bought a (Univers) stock feeder from them years ago that I've long since sold. All their machines were top quality.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Erik for the info.

I totally forgot that some import bandsaws have the 50 Hz motors, so they have reduced speed correct?

I know 5 HP is ideal, but would a 2 HP 50 Hz motor impact resaw capabilities significantly?

My old Grizzly 18" bandsaw that I had before I moved had a 3 HP motor and the only time I bogged it down was with a 12" piece of bubinga that was binding up the blade.

Actually the saw will have a faster than normal speed when run at 60 Hz. (The motor will run at 120% of rated speed)...........Rod.

[Jeff Duncan]

Can't help you with your specific saw, but I don't have much trouble re-sawing on my Delta 20" with a 2hp motor. Granted I don't often re-saw 12" hardwoods, but I do a lot of 4" - 6" maple and oak and with a sharp blade cuts like butter! I think 5 hp might be headed towards the extreme side for a saw that size, but if you find it underpowered a 3 may be a good solution?

On the other hand I've never been afraid of having a little extra power:D

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

I can't find the link I though I had, and a search has turned up nothing. But meber does have a web site (member.com) and I believe you can order parts there. If the SR-500 doesn't work out, you might consider somethings like this......http://www.meber.com/E_Speciali.asp. It has a 42" resaw height, that should suffice for most boards you will use.:rolleyes: Of course you will then need a larger jointer and a very big planer, probably a wide belt too.

[Brad Olson]

So I'm a bit bummed.

The bandsaw has been stored in an unsealed shed for about 2 years and is in pretty rough shape. It has mud daubers and mice nests in it. It is also pretty rusty.

It runs ok, but the magnetic contactor is bad, so it is running of a regular switch at the moment. It is a 3 HP 60 Hz motor.

It probably needs new bearings and tires. I told the owner that I'd be hard pressed to pay $800.

It is essentially equivalent to a Hammer N1440.

Here is the calculation I did:

Hammer N1440 is $1995, $2200 to my door.

-40% for greater than 10 year old, limited parts availability.

=$1320

New magnetic contactor, $300

=$1000

Deduct for rough condition 20% (labor for bearings, rust removal, cleaning, tuning etc.)

=$800

They didn't go for this, but are going to consider it. I suspect they think they have a rare gem in their barn, despite its condition.

Given the condition, I'm tempted to just continue to proceed on a Laguna LT18 3000 quote I have for saw, drift master fence, mobility kit, resaw king blade and 4 regular blades to my door for $2800. Yes, its more expensive, but I'm cutting perfectly right off the bat rather tan rehabbing an older saw.

[David Kumm]

Not disagreeing with your decision but the Meber is more saw than the Hammer and at least close if not equal to the LT 18 3000 in build strength. Mag contactors are easy to find on ebay for a fraction of new and other than bearings and tires there is little that age affects on bandsaws. $800 is about right but will get you a way better saw when fixed up for the money. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

I paid $1000 for my SCM 600 .. In the USA, I would have over paid but in western Canada, they are not common at all ..

Mine needed a major re-fit including bearings, switches, motor.. belts, paint .. Yikes..

The restoration took me some months, but it was a really cool experience and I am glad I did it ..

I put a 5hp Baldor motor on the saw and find it to be quite over powered.. I have resawn 10" Afromosia, 12" Maple .. 12" Sapelli .. Nothing even made the motor hesitate ..

If I ever need a 5hp motor, I will buy a 3hp and swap it out on the bandsaw ..

I would probably buy the meber for $800 .. it sounds fair.. A mag starter is $100 .. all the parts are cheap except the guides.. If they can be rebuilt, good.. if not, price them out ..

[Brad Olson]

I agree. At $800 doing a rebuild would be fine. I have done a grizzly previously. It is more that they wanted $1200, and at that price I'm less interested in rebuilding a saw, when I can have equivalent function for not much more and much less headache.

We will see, they are going to give it a few days.

[Jeff Duncan]

Your in a good place, you can sit back and wait. There's probably not a lot of guys willing to take a machine like that and put the time and money in to it. So let them sit on it for a while and they'll likely see their gem isn't quite as desirable as they may have thought. The only question then is do you have the desire, and do you value quality machines?

If the machine is of the quality the other guys say, and I have no reason to doubt them, then it should make for a very nice machine once restored. I bought my shaper in a similar situation. It was in a unheated shop so protected from the elements, but had some surface rust on the table from a spill somewhere along the way, as well as marks from having been used as an anvil. Also had it's share of paint splatters and a short list of things that needed attention after years of neglect. I spent some money and time, new bearings, belts, a bunch of odds and ends and a LOT of cleaning.....but now have one of the best shapers ever made for less money than I could have bought it for used in running condition. I just have to get around to a solution for slower speeds once I have a few extra bucks again. As far as age goes it's not necessarily a bad thing. My shaper was made in 69' and I'll put it against any new shaper under $10k made today;)

So unless your in a rush for a saw, let them sit on it for a while. Your obviously not committed to it anyway so you have nothing to lose. Either they come down to the price you think is fair and get a nice piece of equipment to rebuild, or they don't and your no worse off!

good luck,
JeffD

[Brad Olson]

Jeff, I made them sit and they reconsidered their pricing after one day.

got it for less than $800. I'm working on transporting it to my shop since it is 35 miles away, but I'll post pics once I get it in my garage.

It isn't pretty now, but it will be when I am done with it.

For the price I paid, it will be worth the refurb.

I also got a 8" Grizzly jointer for $400. Needs a bit of TLC as well.

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Brad .. Good for you .. Meber makes a good saw. Rebuilding a bandsaw is actually pretty simple .. I am about to start a General Canadian planer and can see right away that its going to be a much bigger job than the bandsaw.

With the bandsaw, most parts are easy to get at .. Remove one part, to get at the other .. More complicated tools can mean removing lots of parts to get at a simple small part .. not sure if that makes sense ..

I will post some pictures for you of my refurb on my SCM 600 ..

Before ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/IMG_0907.jpg
After
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/P1010472.jpg

[Brad Olson]

What did you use to clean it up?

I am thinking simple green pro.

How did you redo the logo?

I am considering painting mine if it is too bad.

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Brad..

The doors on mine where trashed.. The machine had no lower guide, it was gone, as was the post that held it. It was a machine that broke blades and the broken blades destroyed the doors .. People had screwed things to the doors .. It was kinda sad .. So I had a body shop repair them and paint them . The logo was done by a sign shop .. Its vinyl letters .. They have been on the top door for about 3 years ( guessing ) .. and no issues at all..


I had planned on painting the green on the bandsaw, but after cleaning it, the paint was actually okay .. Here is a picture of it before cleaning ..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/IMG_0934.jpg
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/IMG_0911.jpg

And after many hours of cleaning ..
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/IMG_0935.jpg
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/P1010456.jpg

I removed the wheels .. Had to buy a puller .. All I can say on pullers is get the bigger one .. lol

Cleaned and painted the wheels, bearings, cleaned and painted the upper wheel support and tension..

New tires, some parts from SCM, Some custom parts .. lower guide bar was made at a local machine shop for $20.00 ..

The costly parts where the motor which I spent $500 on .. The guides where $300.00 and a new mag starter was about $100.00

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/IMG_0916.jpg
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/SCM%20Bandsaw/P1010174.jpg


Those pictures are a good example .. Original paint was fine .. just nasty amounts of cleaning and scrubbing .. I bought some of that white UD whatever plastic and made the dust box piece..

Oh .. and you need metric wrenches..

[Rick Fisher]

If I had to do it all again ..

I would have installed a VFD on the saw for the 3hp x 3ph motor .. It would have saved me $300.00

I would have rebuilt the Carter guides.. parts are all available ..

And I would have only needed an on - off switch because the VFD would negate the new starter ..

I got the tires from Sulphur grove, they do urethane tires in whatever size you want, but I would have bought the T-shaped rubber tires from SCM if I did it again ..

As I said .. Bandsaws are pretty basic.. good starter project .. I am going to try a planer next and expect it to be much more complicated..

[Brad Olson]

Here are the CL pictures.

As you can see, it is in rough shape, but fixable, especially for the price I paid.

It is being delivered on Thursday, so more detailed pictures then.

One question: It needs a new magnetic switch. Any idea where I could get one? I know Grizzly sells them, and I'm considering that as a solution since they are cheap (60-70), though and OEM style switch would be nice. I think the Grizzly magnetic switches can be plugged into the door microswitches and the footbrake switch if I remember correctly.

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[Phil Thien]

Is the original switch missing, or just defective?

If you get the original switch, could it be fixed?

[Brad Olson]

The original switch is still there, but defective. It is very similar to the MiniMax switches of the same vintage and are well known for being defective.

At the moment, it is rigged up with a 220V switch that the owner put on. It is not a magnetic switch, and it is also bypassing the microswitches on the doors and brake.

If anyone knows if the euro style magnetic switches can be fixed, that would be great. I'll know more on Thursday when I get it in the shop and start digging into its problems.

[Jeff Duncan]

Doesn't look too bad at first glance?

I'll leave the electrical questions to those better informed. However you asked about cleaners and one that I've grown to like a lot is a heavy duty foaming cleaner made by Dymon. Spray the stuff on and let the foam do the heavy work. It'll eat threw just about anything but the paint, sometimes you'll need to help it out a bit with a plastic putty knife or brush, but it does a good job. Only place I know to get it is through MSC.

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

If you have the original starter you can watch ebay for the same or similar. I've bought lots of NOS there for Euro machines as well as US. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

It actually looks pretty darn nice to me .. It needs you .. living in a neglected environment .. It just needs a good home and an owner who isn't afraid of some hard work . :)

[Brad Olson]

Well, the bandsaw is in the stable, and I started teardown and cleaning tonight.

One big mishap, is that the another piece of machinery fell against the bottom door during transport. I was a bit annoyed, but he dropped $100 off the price. For $600, it isn't pretty, but this thing is a tank!

I previously owned a Grizzly 20" welded frame saw and this Meber is light years better quality (despite the rust)

Here are the delivery pics, the dent and in the next posts the cleanup and tear down begins (pics tomorrow).

WD-40 and a scotchbrite pad with a ROS really does wonders for rust.

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The broken starter/switch
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You can see a mouse nest behind the upper wheel
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[Brad Olson]

The dent from the outside. The jointer fared worse, but I got the jointer for free. It isn't a catastrophe, the fence came loose and became a projectile and broke. Not ideal, but it will still make boards flat and 90 degrees. More on the jointer when I start on it.

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Dent from the inside
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Saw dust from 10 years ago, who needs dust collection
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Before De-rusting the table (after pictures later)

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Starting teardown and cleaning
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[Peter Quinn]

Wow, glad you bought it! That is the same saw I have in my shop, mine is a little younger I'm guessing based on the electrics. Mine has the modern lockable on/off (every machine has to have a lock out/tag out for some years now) dial switch and a second large red mushroom type off switch magnetic disconnect. Its soft start, micro switches on doors and breaks. Sucks about the door there, bet a body shop could fix that easily. They are real solid machines in use, the frame is rigid like a tank and the guides are very solid. I've used lagunas, a few larger grizzly's and a MM20, I'd put this odd brand right in there near the top of the list, strange I'd never heard of them before I stumbled into mine. You might be able to get a modern version of the broken switches from Meber directly. I'm sure that would't be cheaper than one out of the Grizzly catalogue, but I'm equally sure it would be a more elegant solution. But either one will start and stop the thing. Its pretty redundant to have the red mushroom, but I must admit I do use it frequently.

Enjoy that saw and congrats on a nice score. Can't wait to see the pics with wood going through it! I just sawed some 12 1/2" hard maple with mine, no problems.

[Brad Olson]

Bandsaw is done!

Here are the pictures of the process.

I tore the bandsaw, removing everything but the wheels. I have done bearing jobs on bandsaws before, and I am not in the mood for one now (it doesn't need one either).

I used a magnetic dish to sequentially tear it down, and put the parts into labelled baggies.

I then cleaned every part with simple green pro. If it needed de-rusting, I did this with a wire wheel brush, rust-free (phosphoric acid) or a scotchbrite pad.

After the initial cleaning, I re-cleaned with more simple green pro, then with WD-40. After WD-40, I wiped it off and then applied two heavy coats of boeshield T9 and left it overnight.

After drying to a tacky surface, I lightly coated it again and the wiped it off and let it dry. Following boeshield coating, all wood-contact surfaces were waxed with 5 coats of paste wax. All mechanical and bearing parts were coated with a dry lubricant or graphite spray as appropriate.

After everything was dry and polished, I re-assembled, tuned and tested. The electrical is still a bit of a mess, but the motor contactor is still good.

All the parts torn down and laid out. Small parts just needing cleaning were stored in labelled baggies. All other parts were laid out by where they came from if they were being de-rusted, cleaned and coated.
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These parts were all brown with rust at one point (more or less). This is just after cleaning post de-rusting.
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Cleaning the bottom of the table. The table is case with "Meber", so it is definitely a Meber.
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Again, all the parts cleaned and ready for rust prevention
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The bandsaw fence was full of dirt, grime and bug nests. Here it is just after the first round of de-rusing and cleaning
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Getting ready for rust-prevention
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The is the cleaning and de-rusted top. I left it gray after treating with boesheild rust-free. I'm not into "pretty" tools, just functional tools, so leaving is a bit gray is fine with me. By the way, the top weights over 100 lbs. It took both my wife and myself to move the top around.
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First coating with boesheild. Everything is so good looking compared the when I removed the parts.
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[Brad Olson]

Finally, quick pics of the finished saw. I'm wiped, so better pics later. But compare the before and after, it came out really well IMHO (especially for $600).

I still have an issue with the contractor low voltage trip. I'll post a new thread to catch more opinions on how to fix it. The contactor itself works and the saw runs, just that the microswitches do not yet work.

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[Peter Kelly]

Awesome score. Congrats.

[Brad Olson]

Peter,

What blade length does your saw take? I am finding a bit of disagreement with my measurement and what is in the only manual I can find by google.

I am calculating 156.25". The manual says max of 3990 mm and a min of 3910 mm. In inches this is 157" and 154". Is there a blade length that works for you?

Thanks!


Wow, glad you bought it! That is the same saw I have in my shop, mine is a little younger I'm guessing based on the electrics. Mine has the modern lockable on/off (every machine has to have a lock out/tag out for some years now) dial switch and a second large red mushroom type off switch magnetic disconnect. Its soft start, micro switches on doors and breaks. Sucks about the door there, bet a body shop could fix that easily. They are real solid machines in use, the frame is rigid like a tank and the guides are very solid. I've used lagunas, a few larger grizzly's and a MM20, I'd put this odd brand right in there near the top of the list, strange I'd never heard of them before I stumbled into mine. You might be able to get a modern version of the broken switches from Meber directly. I'm sure that would't be cheaper than one out of the Grizzly catalogue, but I'm equally sure it would be a more elegant solution. But either one will start and stop the thing. Its pretty redundant to have the red mushroom, but I must admit I do use it frequently.

Enjoy that saw and congrats on a nice score. Can't wait to see the pics with wood going through it! I just sawed some 12 1/2" hard maple with mine, no problems.

[Lucas Orve]

Hello from Sweden,

I just purchased exactly the same type of saw second hand. The condition was very good, albeit with some superficial rust from 2 years of storage in an unheated shed near the coast. Paid about USD 1100:-, which I'd say is quite good for a saw in this condition (as new, they sell for about USD 3800 over here). I have been looking for exactly this saw, because (i) Meber really makes high quality saws and (ii) Mebers are little bit lower than the competitors, so it's really the only 500mm (20") saw that will fit into my workshop. Here are some pics of the saw in it's original condition (and location):
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In fact, I even visited Meber's factory in Carpi (Italy) in 2013. They made me a "factory offer" of about USD 3000:- (transport to Sweden included). I was actually prepared to accept this offer, but times were quite hard for Italian industry at that time, with several companies going belly up. The Meber representative even told us that this had just happened to their "neighbors" (another producer of woodworking machines). So with that in mind, I felt I couldn't take the risk with so much of my own money. So I passed on the deal, but kept my eyes open for a used machine instead. Here are some pics from the factory:
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So, just a week go, I became the proud owner of a used Meber SR500, manufactured in 2003 (but with very few miles on the meter). The saw has now received some much needed and deserved TLC, and is settling in nicely in my workshop. Because of the low ceiling, it was quite an adventure raising the saw upright, so I'll let the pics speak for themselves:
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And what a saw this is..... My old Sagittario(?) 400mm (16"), now sold, wasn't a bad saw, but there's absolutely no comparison. The Meber is very quiet and cuts through hard wood like butter, virtually without any vibration at all....

Cheers from Sweden!

[mike mcilroy]

Nice to see you got such a good saw for bargain price + elbow grease.

[Peter Quinn]

Hello Sweden! I bought the sAme saw a few years back, more than 10 years old, never used. Sort of sad story, professional cabinet maker setting up a retirement shop/barn for he and his carpenter/son to use, had debilitating stroke, held on to equipment for a decade, needed money, no chance of getting back to it. I went to buy a power feed for the shaper, saw that meber, struck up a conversation. Traded my 14" powermatic and some money for a brand new never used old saw! Set up the powermatic and delivered it when I picked up the meber, so everybody got something they needed. I really like that saw, don't known why they aren't more popular here in the USA. Enjoy that!

[Lucas Orve]

Hello Sweden! I bought the sAme saw a few years back, more than 10 years old, never used. Sort of sad story, professional cabinet maker setting up a retirement shop/barn for he and his carpenter/son to use, had debilitating stroke, held on to equipment for a decade, needed money, no chance of getting back to it. I went to buy a power feed for the shaper, saw that meber, struck up a conversation. Traded my 14" powermatic and some money for a brand new never used old saw! Set up the powermatic and delivered it when I picked up the meber, so everybody got something they needed. I really like that saw, don't known why they aren't more popular here in the USA. Enjoy that!

It was almost the same (sad) story, when I purchased my drill press (you can see it in the background in one of my pics). A (not so) old guy had recently retired and spent the first 1 1/2 years as a senior citizen building his workshop (for metal). Everything was new, and only top notch machinery. Then, when he was just about to make use of his dream workshop, he suffered a stroke. He suddenly didn't know how to operate the equipment, or at least it wouldn't have been safe. Out in the garage sat his dream car, a BMW, which he couldn't drive, because he'd lost his license as a result the stroke.

Really sad and I felt bad when I collected the drill, although he seemed happy that it would come to good use.