considering a jointer

[greg yovich]

New to the group but not new to woodworking. I'm toying with the idea of a jointer. My needs are simple and a 4" unit would suit me just fine, much larger would be overkill. I'm looking at low end equipment to see how much I would really use it, if not much then I'm not out too much money, if I use it often then I would upgrade. The three I briefly looked at are a Grizzly 6", a Harbor Freight 7" and an old Craftsman King Seeley. The Craftsman is the cheapest, it seems the Grizzly and the Craftsman both do not have an adjustable outfeed table, the Craftsman and HF both have a 3 blade cutter head while the Grizzly has 2 blades. The HF turns a little over 4K, the Grizzly turns over 20K, not sure about the Craftsman.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Victor Robinson]

I'd consider 6" as your minimum to start out. I have the Ridgid 6". It's quite good and has suited me fine. You can find them used in the $200 range. Buying a used jointer would be a good idea - you won't lose much if you decide to sell it (when you realize you actually want an 8" jointer).

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I agree with Victor. 6" is a good common size, and easy to find second hand. Not many people want 4" jointers, so if you decide you don't need one, it will be a lot easier to move a 6". I'd be willing to wager that you will keep it though.

[greg yovich]

Actually both the Grizzly and Craftsman are both 6", the HF is 7".

[Victor Robinson]

Personally I'd shy away from the HF. I think many of their tools are excellent values (the 2hp dust collector is a woodworking community favorite), but I would be a bit gunshy about getting a tool from HF that requires precise adjustment and calibration. Otherwise you will be cutting tapers and not knowing if it's the machine or your technique. JMHO.

[Carl Beckett]

When I started out I got a small ryobi bench top 6" variable speed unit. That thing cut as smooth as anything

Not long ago I saw a CL ad on a used one. $30. ( posted it over in the deals section)

I mention this because you state your needs are simple. For me at the time it was very useful to be able to put it away.

Otherwise a used 6" stationary would be the way to go.

[Mike Circo]

...and not knowing if it's the machine or your technique. JMHO.

Quoted for emphysis. This holds true for all tool purchases in the beginning. The instinct is to go inexpensive figuring it woud be okay and I'll upgrade later. However the truth is a poor machine and a beginner's lack of experience to compare with leads to frustration. You struggle to get accurate cuts and never know if it's you or the machine. Personal experience here, get a better 6" jointer.

[glenn bradley]

The market abounds with used 6" jointers from folks who thought they didn't need an 8". If you have gone this long without, I will assume the type of work you do wouldn't really require an 8" and possible not a 6". If you are working small pieces, a small, lightweight machine may work for you but, small lightweight machines are rarely well made so, don't get a bad opinion of jointers from a bad jointer ;). For the sizes you are talking about I would be tempted to deal with them by hand unless there are multiples. things like toy trucks, tableware, flag cases, urns, etc. where you do many of the same operation is the perfect place for a machine to help out. I seem to be rambling. Not sure if any of that helped.

[Frank Drew]

Greg,

I understand the constraints of budget and space, but FWIW I can't remember reading anyone here say that the machine they bought is too good. In other words, since you can't be sure what kind of work your interest in woodworking will lead you to, it usually pays to buy a little bit better than you think you need, maybe spending a bit more money than you planned.

[Julian Tracy]

Though I have a Delta X5 stationary 6" jointer in my shop, I recently picked up the Delta 6" portable jointer for use on the jobsite for kitchen fillers, jamb extensions, etc.

Haven't heard too many good things about the small portables, but I got it in place of getting the entire bench unit for my Festool 850 handheld planer, and in place if it, I'm pretty impressed with the small Delta. (I actually sold my Festool planer as aside from a small bench jointer, I didn't really have a pressing use for it.)

It's got variable speed, is relatively quiet and has great dust collection. Obviously not for 8' long lumber, but within it's limits, it seems to be a very capable machine. For a small shop, I'd have no hesitance in recommending it for simple face and edge jointing.

That, and the fact that I see them on CL all day long for about $125 makes them a good choice in some circumstances imo.

Julian

[Julian Tracy]

Added note: My advice in ANY woodworking tool purchase is to buy used.

If you buy smart used, the tool will never loose any value. A good used buy means you can always sell it for exactly what you paid for it and probably more if you list it smart (good pictures, good description, simple wipe down, wire brush rusted knobs, etc...)

Even like new Powermatic 54A 6" jointers I've seen on CL for as low as $350-450 - those are over $1000 or so these days new...

My X5 Delta 6" Craigslist purchase had never been used - still had the protective paper on the cutterhead and I paid $300 with the Delta mobile base - the combo would've cost close to $8-900 new.

Julian

[Gene Waara]

Buy a 6 inch minimum. Once you have a jointer you will realize how valuable it is in reducing lumber costs and use it more often than you think. I have had my dad's 50's era 6" Delta Homecraft for years and recently bought a used Griz 8". I won't sell the 6" but will mainly use the 8". You will repeatedly hear to buy an 8" first because that is what you ultimately will end up with and I agree. That said, if you are convinced 4" is all you need listen to everyone who has been there before you and buy at least a 6". Also, buy used. As someone also said, there are plenty of those being sold when the 8" replacement is purchased.

[Gary Herrmann]

Greg, maybe I missed it - but do you have a budget in mind. You'll get better guidance that way.

But you can find 6" jointers cheap on CL. I'd pass on the 4".

[Michael W. Clark]

If you are looking for a benchtop, you can get a 6" in pretty much the same footprint as the 4". I had a Craftsman version with the cast table and fence. The downside to this for me was the short table, fence adjustment, and noise. This one used a universal motor like a shop vacuum and it was only slightly quieter than the planer. There are some old-school 6" jointers available of the benchtop type that are induction motor driven. However, they take up about as much room as a standard floor model 6". I have a Delta 37-220 6" now and while its probably not what I want long term, it fits the space, a big improvement over the Craftsman and I'm only in it about $100. I sold the Craftsman for $100, bought this one for $180, and put about $20 worth of wiring into it. It had original knives, so I did buy new ones and I can't remember what they cost.

[johnny means]

Sounds like all you have in mind is some edge jointing. If this is the case, you really don't need a jointer. Edge jointing can be done just as well on a router table with an off set fence. You can also use a table saw jig. I mention this because smaller jointers can often be pretty bad. Particularly the fences which are the key to getting a nice square edge. While a shop built solution can be as precise and stout as you want it to be.

My point is, no jointer may actually be better than a really light weight machine.

[Myk Rian]

Greg, where are you?
Craigslist has an abundance of great 6" jointers. I prefer the old Delta models that go for as little as $50.
If you don't mind getting the knives sharpened, and maybe scrubbing it clean, you can't go wrong with them.
The variable speed benchtop models will be a lesson in frustration, as you'll soon find they just don't cut it.

[greg yovich]

I can attest to buying cheap and then upgrading, I went that route with a table saw. My mistake in that case was not doing enough research to realize that not all Delta Contractor saws are the same. I can understand many saying go bigger but honestly, if I've survived without one so far, I think a 6" would be fine. Now the question about the non-adjustable outfeed table and how does that limit me or prevent me from doing something?

[Michael W. Clark]

My benchtop jointer didn't have adjustable outfeed and I never really had a reason to adjust it. If it is not adjustable and the tables are out of plane with each other, that may be a problem. My main issue on my benchtop jointer was the fence. I could never get it to stay square to the tables. Also, I think it was slightly warped as the infeed would be square, but the outfeed would be off a hair.

[scott spencer]

A 6" stationary unit should be fine, and is a much more prudent investment IMHO ...even the HF unit. If you opt for a smaller benchtop unit, the odds are much higher that you'll get less function from it, so will likely use it less.

Many folks seem to think that a jointer is primarily for edge jointing. While edge jointing is one of two significant functions of a jointer, face jointing plays an even more significant role, and is where the larger capacity becomes the most useful. Face jointing a board is step one with rough lumber. It's the first reference point on a board, and everything else builds from that point. Without a flat reference face, accuracy is random for all other aspects.

[Chip Lindley]

Find yourself a great old used Delta/Rockwell 6" jointer. The oldest have a 32" bed. Plenty; I can attest. I have edge jointed and even face jointed TONS of hardwood on such a little machine! Once you use a jointer for facing or edging hardwood, you will be in LOVE! It is one of the great pleasures of woodworking! Seeing joints fit perfectly is forever rewarding! Seeing planed surfaces, pristine from *junk wood* is also amazing! You can pick up an old Delta for around $200. It will serve you well (with sharp blades) until you feel the need for an 8" machine. Then look towards a DJ20! I Love mine!

[greg yovich]

I'm still here, just haven't been spending too much time on-line. I keep watching CL and have missed out on a couple, I'm looking at an old Delta, I think it's a 37-207 and looks to be in good condition. I like the older tools as they often are heavier duty and they can also turn into a mini-restoration project. What should something something like this run with 4 sets of new blades, not theft price but as a good working unit?

[Carl Beckett]

Greg - if you tell us where you are there are members here that like to peruse CL, and you will likely get a half a dozen referrals to deals in your area.

For a stand alone 6" in decent shape: $150 to $200 should be enough. I sold a great 8" Grizzly for $450 so if you go $300 you are likely high....

[Keith Hankins]

Yikes, stay away from HF for anything other than thow away hand tools. Let me do you a favor and I own several Grizzly tools. Bought them over the years because of price point. They are ok and have functioned for me. However I received an education from a nice wood-worker who challenged me and i saw the light. Go find some old American iron. It's better made, and can be had for better prices. Below is a link to just one example (I do not know the person selling it and have no knowledge of the tool). Spend some time looking and waiting the right tool will come up. I've snagged my last three tools that way. Go to the old tool forrum and watch or searchtempest.com and search by zipcode and how far you can travel. I'm telling you thats the easiest way to outfit a great shop.

http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123254

[Myk Rian]

Who said anything about HF?
He already said old iron is preferred.

[greg yovich]

I'll hold off telling where I'm at in case the seller of the one I'm going to see is a member, don't want to show my hand you know ...... I'll post more after I see and or buy it. Thanks for all the great replies, kind of confirms things a bit.

[Joe Spear]

Who said anything about HF?


Greg did, in his original post.

[greg yovich]

Yep, I saw one at the HF by me for $249, was wondering what others thought of them. Once I started reading up on them, I figured I could buy an older one that would probably be better. Not that the HF is no good, but I think it's easier to find parts for an old Delta or Craftsman that a new HF one. Besides, an older one could also be a rebuilding project as well AND might even cost a little less to boot.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Yep, I saw one at the HF by me for $249, was wondering what others thought of themThat's close to what the goofballs on CL around me ask for a rusty filthy HF jointer....
Tack on another $50 to $100 and it's more like it.

Edit - ok - to be perfectly fair - I just took a quick look on CL & it seems that now that i don't need a jointer, there are a few decent ones on CL....
Wish I could say the same about a bandsaw....

[Larry Edgerton]

Stay away from any with a fixed outfeed table, especially the Craftsman. They are prone to warpage as the cast iron ages and there is nothing you can do about it that is economically sound. Once warped they are useless.

Your location would be good, a lot of us look at tools daily. Chances are the jointer owner in question is not a member.

I picked up an old Powermatic 6" with a byrd head for $400 just for the job I am on now. May sell it when I am done, but I actually really like the little bugger. Probably end up in my basement.

Be patient. If you buy a HF or equivilent you will always wonder what a real machine would be like. Sounds like you are only going to do this once, so do it right.

Larry

[greg yovich]

Just picked it up, looks to be a Delta 37-205 but am not sure, serial number is 26-9299 with maybe a 0 or O after it, haven't looked that close yet. The table length is about 32" and has the 4 leg stand, not the cool art deco one. It seems complete and runs well, has the original Delta motor with the warranty tag still on it, chip chute, original switch with the rod and a total of 4 sets of knives. The only thing missing is the cover on the unsed end of the motor shaft. All this for $200. I'm happy and will get some pictures over the weekend. Thanks for all the replies. Will probably need some help identifying it and pointers on using it as well but that will have to wait a bit.

[Larry Fox]

OP - if your needs are that simple perhaps a well tuned hand plane would meet your needs. If not, I agree with others that CL is awash in used 6" jointers. I think any of the usual suspects (Delta, Jet, Grizzly) should do just fine.

As to HF, I think pretty much everything they sell is terrible / horrible / awful ( insert negative adjective of choice here) and a waste of hard earned money so would steer clear of them. It confounds me how that place is still in business.

[greg yovich]

OK, can someone tell me what to look for to identify what model of jointer I have? I know pictures would help but I ran out of time, I'll get some very soon.

[Myk Rian]

It's a 1944 model.
Model 37-207 is likely, as it has the steel stand.
Like this one.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/11023-A.jpg

[greg yovich]

Yep, looks just like it and about in the same condition. Thanks for the info. The only thing missing is the little snout on the motor. I read up on the serial numbers and found that the 5 digits to the right of the dash is kind of an oddity.

[kenneth kayser]

More important than width is length. I made some 7' doors from 5/4 oak. My standard 6" jointer could not do the job. I bought a 6" long bed and have never regretted it. I took a big loss on the std bed 6". Never buy a new 6". Also, I find the jointer indispensable for flattening one side of a board. I don't use boards over 6" because of their tendency to warp over time. You can flatten boards wider than 6" on a 6" jointer but it is somewhat involved.