Help with ID - are these machinist dies?

[Mark Wyatt]

I was at an auction yesterday and this set came up for sale, announced as "number and letter stamps." I thought they were the kind you whack with a hammer, and not having the opportunity to examine them closely I threw a bid out.

Well, I won and now I don't know what I have or if I can use these. My guess is that I need some kind of machine. Any help?

[george wilson]

They LOOK like the steel "type" that are arranged in slots in steel holders to stamp names,etc.,nice and straight. I have some of those sets. However,these stamps are way too wide to use in such holders. The letters would be too far apart.They are 2x as wide as my stamp sets that fit into holders.

Do not try whacking them with a hammer. With that deep notch,they could easily snap in half. You need some kind of holder to set them in. The notch keeps them from falling out of the holder. Trouble is,I don't know what holder they fit.

[Mark Wyatt]

They LOOK like the steel "type" that are arranged in slots in steel holders to stamp names,etc.,nice and straight. I have some of those sets. However,these stamps are way too wide to use in such holders. The letters would be too far apart.They are 2x as wide as my stamp sets that fit into holders.

Do not try whacking them with a hammer. With that deep notch,they could easily snap in half. You need some kind of holder to set them in. The notch keeps them from falling out of the holder. Trouble is,I don't know what holder they fit.

Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Perhaps there is some machinist or other specialist out there who knows what fixture to use them in. (I'll give somebody a great deal on them :)!)

[Bruce Page]

I have no idea what application they were used in but I'll guarantee one thing, they weren’t cheap.

[Mark Wyatt]

18 per row x 6 rows = 108 total pieces. There is a complete set of "inset" numbers and letters and a complete set of "outset" as well as some special characters. A few more photos for fun:

[John C Lawson]

I don't know what they are, but it looks like there are both positive and negative dies. Perhaps (and it's only a guess) they were used in some machine to crimp lettering into some kind of thin material.

[Brent VanFossen]

My wife, who used to own a printing business, says these are used for letterpress printing. She referred me to this Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterpress_printing

Not knowing much about this myself, I hesitate to paraphrase what she told me for fear of misleading anyone. If you have specific questions, I can try to get her help with answers.

[John Coloccia]

I don't understand why they are in different sizes and shapes (they're machined differently, at any rate...some have bevels...some don't). I also don't understand why some letters are mirrored and some aren't. It's like some are meant to make stamp into metal, and others are meant to make a raised impression from the back. I just find it absolutely bizarre that some are machined with 2 shoulders, some have 4 shoulders, others are machined with bevels and some have shoulders AND bevels. It would seem incredibly weird to me that someone should do extra machining steps for no purpose, and beyond that would just randomly pick a style depending on their mood. I don't get that. It makes me think maybe these are not all from one set.

Anyhow, maybe it's a drop cap style? That might explain the large margins.

edit: so B, C, D, E are forwards...F is backwards. There are several backwards R's, a bunch of T's. Oddly enough, I can't find any examples where there is a mirrored symbol AND a non-mirrored symbol. That's a strange coincidence if this set was just tossed together randomly. None of the relief ones appear to be mirrored, incidentally. What a strange little set you have.

[george wilson]

F should be backwards to strike forwards. The E and the G on either side of the F are just upside down. I don't understand some of these things either. The A and the Y are smashed by someone hitting them against hardened steel. I HOPE that the indented figures can be used to strike new characters to make new A and Y. A special purpose set,no doubt,but who ever made it did know what they were doing. It wasn't just done for fun!

I took printing in school,and they are way too wide for use in printing. The characters would come out MUCH too far apart. I also helped to make type matrixes for the printing shop in Williamsburg(molds to pour type metal into).

[Jim Koepke]

I agree with George. I was also a printer many years ago. Letter press type is 0.9186" tall. These look too tall for that.

It looks like someone has buggered a few of the pieces.

jtk

[John Coloccia]

You're right, George. They're actually ALL mirrored, but some of them are just upside down. Ha ha...jokes on me! :) I guess it makes a little more sense now.

[John Coloccia]

You know, given the wear on just two letters, I wonder if these where used in an inspection hammer.

[Mike Siemsen]

I thought they might be for a dogtag machine, lead me to this, google is your friend
http://www.universalmarking.com/umark_images/dies_images/Emboss-Dies.jpg
Embossing & Debossing Dies
Male & Female Embossing Dies are used to raise characters onto a wide range of sizes and shaped materials. Debossing dies are similar with Reversed Characters and the image is in relief. Embossing & Debossing Dies can be used to create clean readable text and logos or may be used in ornamental metal applications.

[Mark Wyatt]

Embossing and debossing dies certainly seems to be right answer. I also rearranged them based on previous feedback. It appears there are two types: perhaps an original set and some replacements. There is an envelop in the top of the box, lacking details, that seems to be an order for 8 replacement die. No address or name attached to the envelop.

It also occurs to me that this estate had a large collection of WWII artifacts.

[Trevor Walsh]

Could they be counterpunches or a master die set to punch a set of dies?

[george wilson]

I think the "inverse " letters wouldn't be used to make raised letters on sheet metal by themselves. They would show damage where the outside rectangle would dent or scratch the metal some. I'm still not sure of their actual use.

You can see from the pictures Mike posted above that a nice,clean,1 piece stamp plate and mate were used to make the raised letter tag shown. They'd have to be put into perfect registration in a machine,too.

[Adam Neat]

Years ago when I first started wiring machinery we had a punch to punch out thin metal labels, sort of like the rotary label makers with the plastic strips. We used them to label different components in a magnetics panel.

Anyway this is the company that makes the label maker http://www.rooversonline.com/#

What George mentioned about the dies being in perfect registration jogged my memory. They do look to be a set of dies for stamping thin material with the positive and negative sets, I know when you use a regular letter/number punch on thin stock that it makes a bit of a mess.

Could this be a set of dies for the above machine, or something similar, I cant say for sure. Looks like they were not used for that purpose since a couple look to have been used to attempt to stamp some hard material and pretty much ruined them.

We have "similar" sets at work that are thinner and made to be grouped together in a holder but as everyone else covered they dont look to be those.

Interesting find none the less

[Adam Neat]

Also seen this machine that could be a likely candidate (without the rotary feature)

242826

[Mark Wyatt]

I looked at some machines as a possibility, but typically you would not have such a nice case for the dies if they were to be used in a machine. The storage case makes me believe there was a hand tool use for these.

[Adam Neat]

As George mentioned....no real way to hold the top and bottom die in alignment unless there in some type of press, There could be one, kind of like a nutcracker. I have a hole punch for thin metal that operates that way.

If a machine is setup to do different size letters they have to have the set stored somehow when not in use