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View Full Version : Trotec Speedy 300 Pricing: Trade Show vs. Sawmill Creek Pricing



Ronald Erickson
10-06-2012, 1:50 PM
Greetings fellow Creekers.

I'm currently in the market for a laser and have been pricing laser systems through Trotec, Epilog, and ULS. This post is a factual narrative about my experience thus far with Trotec regarding pricing. The purpose of this post is to discuss laser pricing using the Sawmill Creek discount vs. Trade Show pricing. I intend not to impart my opinion on the pricing, nor will I discuss any pricing that I have specifically been asked not to share.

I asked Keith Outten via PM if posting pricing information would be ok. He said it would be fine as long as the information was factual and as long as I would not be sharing any confidential information.

I contacted Amie McGee (Sawmill Creek rep) via voice mail on 9/20/2012. As she was at the PA trade show, she was unable to return my call until the morning of 9/26. She took my information and delivered it to my local sales rep for a price quote.

The Sawmill Creek price quote I received is below:

Sawmill Creek Price

Speedy 300 with 60 watt tube: $25,950
80 watt tube upgrade: $2,000
Honeycomb Cutting Table: $500
Air Assist: $795
Delivery: $450
Total: $29,695

PA Trade Show Price

Speedy 300 with 80 watt tube: $22,900
80 watt tube upgrade: Included
Honeycomb Cutting Table: Included
Air Assist: Included
Delivery: $500
Total: $23,400

While I don't have a physical copy of the pricing offered at the PA show, I have confirmed through multiple sources the pricing that was offered and accepted by Trotec.

Difference: $6295 in favor of pricing at a trade show.

Here is the initial Speedy 300 price quote I received with Sawmill Creek pricing:


242587

Here is the initial Speedy 100 price quote I received with Sawmill Creek pricing:

242591

I contacted Amie a second time about pricing out a Rayjet 300, but she did not return the call and instead had my local rep call me back. The Sawmill Creek pricing of the Rayjet 300 @ 60 watts was exactly the same as the Speedy 100 @ 40 watts.

I've been working with my local sales rep on the pricing of a Speedy 100. Although the price point I'm currently at is better than the initial price quote (I've been asked not to publish the revised quote), it appears I may have to stop the negotiations and attend a trade show to receive the best pricing.

Does anyone have any advice to help me get the best price? I'm starting this out as a hobby with hopes of turning this into a business in the future.

Ross Moshinsky
10-06-2012, 2:24 PM
Sadly, this is a game all the laser companies play. Because there is no listed price for any of the manufacturers and everything is individually negotiated, it makes people very tentative to share information about pricing.

The price you pay is the trade show price or no price at all. You don't need to attend a trade show to get the pricing. Just tell them to give you the price. If they won't, just let them know you'll post your negative experience on here. There is no reason why someone who went to a trade show should save $6300.

Martin Boekers
10-06-2012, 3:47 PM
In the past I have tried to make major purchases at trade show time. This is a great way to save a few dollars!
Trade Shows, I've found usually offer the best discounts. If you have one close to you, you may negotiate on the
floor model and save the shipping costs.

Ronald Erickson
10-06-2012, 4:15 PM
When I first approached Trotec, it was via their website. I had not received any reply to my pricing inquiry (not uncommon based on other posts in the forum) so I contacted Keith on SMC to get the SMC Trotec Vendor Rep contact information (Amie McGee). I had hopes that by going through Amie I could secure reasonable pricing; high hopes in fact due to the work Keith has done to get Sawmill Creek members a discount. While Amie was very knowledgeable and a pleasure to speak with, she didn't go into pricing and instead handed me off to a local vendor rep. It's the local vendor rep who provided the price quotes attached above. In subsequest discussions with Keith, the normal process would have been to call Amie, get pricing, & order the system; working with the local vendor rep would have occurred after the order was placed.

While I contacted Amie via voice mail the day the show started, she didn't get back to me until three days after the show (which is understandable), but didn't offer show pricing. It would have went a long way for her to have said "Here's the pricing we were offering at the show. Even though the show is over, I'd be happy to sell you a system at those prices." (By the way, I did send her both her and my local rep an email to give them a chance to respond.)

I can certainly understand why people don't want to discuss pricing. No one wants to feel like they've paid too much, and no one wants others to feel bad because others didn't get as good of a price. My purpose in posting is to share the information so that others don't ever feel like they are getting taken. In my case, it would have been to the tune of $6000 had my budget been willing to spend that much.

What's unfortunate is that the people who can't attend a show won't necessarily have the opportunity to pay the show pricing.

Scott Shepherd
10-06-2012, 4:24 PM
What's unfortunate is that the people who can't attend a show won't necessarily have the opportunity to pay the show pricing.

I've been going to trade shows for over 25 years in some trade or another. Been going to sign trade shows for 4-5 years now. I can say with 100% certainty that trade show pricing is always better and I can also say that trade show pricing is almost always good at the show and not much past it.

I've tried to play hardball with companies in the past about getting the tradeshow price and I've lost more times than I have won.

Just for the record, all manufacturers offer trade show pricing and we're on our 3rd laser, 3rd brand and I can say with all 3 of those, trade show pricing is always less expensive, but if you're not at the show, you're not going to get trade show pricing. It's just the way it works. You might not like it or agree with it, but it happens at just about every booth at the show.

JDS, Johnson, all of those people offer trade show discounts. Call 2 weeks after the show and ask for that discount. You won't get it.

In the end, buying a laser is like buying a car. If you let someone else do the negotiating for you, then you get what you put into it. If you negotiate yourself, you've done all you can do.

We paid $3,000-4,000 more for our Epilog than others did because we didn't know any better. Lesson learned.

Braden Todd
10-06-2012, 5:18 PM
I asked for Trotec pricing and run times for specific designs in roughly Feb., I am still waiting for their reply and that was speaking directly to Aime McGee. Called Epilog after a month of waiting on Trotec and my old rep was at my door the next day.

While I was to busy to attend the Las Vegas show, my rep called me knowing what I wanted and gave me the show pricing on my machine. From the tech and sales support I don't ever see any reason for my business to look beyond Epilog.

Just my two cents on it all ;)

Ernie Martinez
10-06-2012, 5:32 PM
I had a similar experience trying to deal with Trotec sales when I was shopping for my Laser, I could never get the guy to call back, and the pricing stunk. ULS didn't even want to negotiate. In frustration I posted questions on this forum, the next day the President of Epilog called me, offered me a SUBSTANTIAL savings on a 50W laser and I immediately put in my order. So far I'm happy with my purchase.

Ronald Erickson
10-06-2012, 5:43 PM
Wow Braden, that sounds like you have a very responsive Epilog rep. I initiated discussions with Epilog the same time as I did with Trotec. Epilog was quick to send out the promotional materials and I received local contact information right away. My local Epilog rep (30 min away) has responded to every email I've sent and has sent me a complete pricing list for every machine and option. While the pricing is "list prices" so to speak, it gives me a point of reference. He's invited me multiple times to come in to his shop to demo his machines. Thus far I've held off because I personally like the design of the Trotec machines. I'll most likely send him an email to inquire on the show pricing in Las Vegas to see how he responds.


It certainly sounds like an opportunity for improvement with customer attentiveness and satisfaction.

I appreciate the feedback and details of your personal experience.

Scott Shepherd
10-06-2012, 6:40 PM
While I understand all the emotions involved, we don't buy equipment for our business based on emotions, we base it on what machine fits our needs best. I don't understand the logic of "they didn't call me back so I bought the one that did call me back". If you're buying something for a hobby, I understand that, but if you're buying it for a business, then call twice, call 3 times, get in the car and drive somewhere to see it. If it's the best for your business, then some times you need to do what it takes to get it there. That's the sad reality of most everything today. Been out to eat lately? Found anyone that actually cares about your dining experience to wait on you? You'd think in todays economy, people would be doing all they can to call back and service potential customers, but it's just the facts that they aren't. There are stories on here about Epilog (need I tell my story again how my sales rep finally bought back our machine because it wasn't working right-only took him 8 months to make that move), there are stories about ULS and also Trotec.

Trotec has had a reputation of not calling back that well over the years, but it's been complained about many times by many people to people at Trotec, and they've made huge strides as far as I know. Not perfect, but they are getting far better.

Ronald Erickson
10-06-2012, 7:20 PM
I don't understand the logic of "they didn't call me back so I bought the one that did call me back". If you're buying something for a hobby, I understand that, but if you're buying it for a business, then call twice, call 3 times, get in the car and drive somewhere to see it. If it's the best for your business, then some times you need to do what it takes to get it there.

For me, it's pretty simple and this applies to any company I deal with: If a company doesn't respond to inquiries about their products, I'm not going to keep making inquires; I'm going to move on to a more receptive company who IS responsive. Their business is to sell their products. If they aren't receptive to selling to me, then I'm not receptive to buying from them. There's no emotion involved with my decision to stop trying to get product information, in this case from ULS.

Sometimes a business may not actually know what it needs. That's the time a product vendor should be stepping up to assess and fill the needs of your business. If you know exactly what your business needs and it is only being offered by one particular vendor (aka a monopoly), then it certainly may be worth the time to aggressively pursue the non-responsive business to purchase their products.

As an example, If a customer approaches you with a job and you don't respond, do you believe the customer should continue to approach you two, three, or four times because it is best for them? Most likely they would not and you would have lost the opportunity to do business. Do it enough and you'll either learn from the experience and become more responsive, or you'll lose business to others. Money doesn't care who earns it.

I am hopeful that I'm not coming across as complaining. My intent is to share my experiences with others so that they may be better informed when making their purchase decisions.

Ross Moshinsky
10-06-2012, 7:33 PM
The laser industry is a bit screwy with sales. They forward all inquiries to regional salesmen and they respond back at their earliest convenience. After they make the sale and do the initial demo, you will probably only need to speak with your sales person a couple of times after. After that, you probably know more about the machine then they do, and any problems you have you will direct to customer service. You don't call the person you bought your Ford from about a braking issue, do you?

As far as pricing, trade show pricing is a gimmick. There is no reason why it shouldn't be given to anyone and everyone. It's up to you to put enough pressure on to get the pricing. Maybe they won't give it to you for $23,500 but there is absolutely no reason to pay $30,000 because you didn't happen to go to some random trade show. I'd play hardball and if they won't budge, go over their head. Once you get into upper management, they'll more often then not make the deal happen. They don't care about the commission and they know if they were able to afford to sell the machine for $23,500 one week, they'll be able to sell it for the same price the next.

Bill Cunningham
10-06-2012, 9:09 PM
For me, it's pretty simple and this applies to any company I deal with: If a company doesn't respond to inquiries about their products, I'm not going to keep making inquires; I'm going to move on to a more receptive company who IS responsive. Their business is to sell their products. If they aren't receptive to selling to me, then I'm not receptive to buying from them. There's no emotion involved with my decision to stop trying to get product information, in this case from ULS.

I NEVER chase salespeople to give them my money. If they want to sell a machine/product/service that I'm in the market for, They better return my call, or I also move on.. Re-calling someone time and time again without a response shows they clearly don't want your business, and I simply don't have the time to waste chasing them, waving a fist full of cash they obviously don't want.

Brian J Rogalny
10-06-2012, 9:18 PM
Great point Ross

The laser industry is a bit screwy with sales. They forward all inquiries to regional salesmen and they respond back at their earliest convenience. After they make the sale and do the initial demo, you will probably only need to speak with your sales person a couple of times after. After that, you probably know more about the machine then they do, and any problems you have you will direct to customer service. You don't call the person you bought your Ford from about a braking issue, do you?

As far as pricing, trade show pricing is a gimmick. There is no reason why it shouldn't be given to anyone and everyone. It's up to you to put enough pressure on to get the pricing. Maybe they won't give it to you for $23,500 but there is absolutely no reason to pay $30,000 because you didn't happen to go to some random trade show. I'd play hardball and if they won't budge, go over their head. Once you get into upper management, they'll more often then not make the deal happen. They don't care about the commission and they know if they were able to afford to sell the machine for $23,500 one week, they'll be able to sell it for the same price the next.

Gary Hair
10-06-2012, 9:19 PM
we don't buy equipment for our business based on emotions, we base it on what machine fits our needs best. I don't understand the logic of "they didn't call me back so I bought the one that did call me back"

We are talking about a laser here, not some very specialized piece of equipment that is only sold by one company. Almost any laser made by almost any manufacturer will do the job - if company "a" doesn't want to return you phone calls then there is always company "b", or "c", etc. I have heard this before about Trotec and I will keep it in mind when I get ready to buy another laser. I'll contact each company once and will continue down the path with those that call me back.

Gary

Scott Shepherd
10-07-2012, 8:51 AM
We are talking about a laser here, not some very specialized piece of equipment that is only sold by one company. Almost any laser made by almost any manufacturer will do the job - if company "a" doesn't want to return you phone calls then there is always company "b", or "c", etc. I have heard this before about Trotec and I will keep it in mind when I get ready to buy another laser. I'll contact each company once and will continue down the path with those that call me back.

Gary

So if you want a Ferrari, and you've researched all your needs and it's a Ferrari that fits your needs the best, you send Ferrari an email and they don't respond, you then send an email to Ford, Chevy, and Kia. If Ford and Chevy don't respond quickly, and Kia does, then you go buy a Kia?

You wanted a Ferrari, but Kia called you back first and had the nice salesperson, so you bought a Kia?

That makes no sense.

It's well documented on this forum that laser sales are a weak point in the field. Like I said, we had a story a few weeks ago about Epilog not calling back. So does that mean Epilog is off the table now? You're dealing with SALES PEOPLE.

If I want a Toshiba Laptop, and I go to Best Buy and I can't get anyone to help me, do I buy something else because their sales people can't help me? No, I do what I need to do to get what I'm trying to get.

If anyone thinks linking the sales people's reactions to the service you can expect, they don't know Epilog, Universal, or Trotec. Service is top level in all 3. A salesman not calling you back in a timely manner is NOT reflective of how their service department runs.

Last point- why would anyone send an email to someone for a critical question like this? Emails notoriously get flagged as spam or junk mail all over the place. Every stop to think that maybe your emails got flagged out by their server? Something a sales rep wouldn't have any idea about? If it's THAT important, PICK UP THE PHONE and call them.

Mike Null
10-07-2012, 9:06 AM
My experience in buying my first laser, a ULS which I had made up my mind to buy, wasn't much different. I had to drive to Chicago to make the purchase as there was no ULS rep in St. Louis and the factory sales mgr. was useless.

When I decided to buy a second machine I looked at the features very carefully of all machines and requested quotes. ULS not only didn't have a rep in St. Louis but they didn't have a rep that I could contact in this hemisphere :confused: so I contacted the factory again. Their quote was well above anything I had received from the other two. Epilog has a very attentive rep in the Missouri market and he was all over the rfq. Trotec responded with the Missouri rep and he arranged for me to see a couple of machines in operation in local shops.

At the time Trotec was fairly new to the US and just getting started. Their quote was higher than Epilog but lower than ULS. This was more than 6 years ago and machines were much higher priced at that time. I had made up my mind that the Trotec was the machine I wanted even with the price and I was unable to negotiate anything lower. In the meantime Epilog's rep advised that the factory (he gave me the name of an executive) wanted the order and he was going to lower my price a lot--they were already the lowest. Still, in one of my better decisions, I chose Trotec, as I believed it to be a superior machine. ( I also looked at Xenetech but quickly determined I wanted nothing to do with that brand.)

Given the performance of my Trotec and the outstanding tech support in using the many features of the machine and software I would buy another without considering other brands. (mine is in it's 7th year with zero downtime and zero parts replacement)

Ross Moshinsky
10-07-2012, 9:29 AM
I don't think this thread is about one brand vs another, it's about how the industry sells their machines. With no list price and "special" pricing, it has created an atmosphere where people are afraid to post on the internet what kind of pricing they get and it allows the manufacturers and salesmen to "exploit" the consumer. I'm not saying this is unique to Trotec either. All of the laser manufacturers play this game.

There is no reason why at a trade show a price should be around $6000 difference. The reason they do it that way is because they know they are surrounded by competition and want to put their best foot forward. Don't be afraid to go over a salesman's head to get the best price. We're talking about $6000 here. That's not a small chunk of change. That buys an equivalent Chinese laser.

Tony Lenkic
10-07-2012, 10:19 AM
As already stated in another thread I purchased Trotec Speedy300 from Trotec Canada a div. of Trodat Marking Canada. Communication between Jon (member here on SMC) and me started long ago. There is no unanswered questions or not returned calls.

I put wheels in motion after attending "Consac" sign trade show in Toronto. All major grands had their laser on exhibition floor.
I really wanted Speedy 300 but to be sure I requested a quote from second on shopping list PLS6.75 from ULS. The quotes I received were substantially lower the PA trade show posted on top of this thread with exact same features. Why, don't know maybe due to the strength of Canadian dollar ......but i'll take it.

David Rust
10-07-2012, 1:02 PM
I just purchased an engraver. I did my research and narrowed it down to either a ULS
or Epilog. I contacted both companies. The local Epilog representative answered
every email promptly, he answered every question and we also talked about the
pitfalls and benefits of starting a Laser based business... The guy is great!
After talking with him over 6 months I decided that my best deal was with a
factory reconditioned unit straight from Epilog (saved about $6k)... I felt bad
that the salesman didn't pick up a commission on a new sale... however I
couldn't justify the extra $6k because he is a nice guy...

The salesman's willingness to help, promptness, answers to a myriad of
questions along with Epilogs reputation for support made up my mind to buy that
brand. I am sure ULS is a great machine but the local Reps were very slow
getting back to me, even then they lacked a follow-up which made my decision
easier...

Ronald Erickson
10-07-2012, 1:21 PM
Everyone who buys a laser will have a story to tell about the experience. So far, this is my story. I'm very hopeful that the ending to the story will be a positive one and that others will benefit from the sharing. I also encourage others to share their experiences, good and bad. The manufacturers may have no idea they have areas that are deficient and need improvement. Likewise, they may not realize they have some outstanding sales reps who deserve all the praise in the world for how they represent the products they sell.

I'm hoping this thread will help bring attention to the wide discrepency with pricing and help others to realize the deals available. I'm also hoping this thread shows an opportunity for companies to stop barring customers at the door with poor pricing practices. Don't segregate your customers who can't attend a trade show. Offer the same deal to all customers even if limited to those time periods.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

Scott Shepherd
10-07-2012, 1:45 PM
I don't have an issue with it being posted, but I do take issue with Trotec as being painted as someone that's doing something that every other manufacturer does as well. I can assure you, we paid a lot more for our Epilog than others did, and we paid less for our ULS than others did.

It's not Trotec, it's ALL of the big manufacturers that have sales reps. If you were a sales rep, you'd be trying to get all you could too. That's how they make their living. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything. If you aren't happy with the price, don't buy it.

Like I said, this has been happening in trade shows since trade shows started. It's not unique to the laser world.

We bought a plotter. Price before the show was $3500. Show price was $2700. We asked if we could get the show price without going to show. Nope. Had to go to the show.

We are looking at large format printers. Asking price is $25,500. I've seen people negotiating them down to the $12,995 area. If I hadn't known that, we'd be planning to spend about $20,000 on one.

In all fairness, to balance this out, we'd need show pricing from Epilog and Universal.

Gary Hair
10-07-2012, 2:09 PM
You wanted a Ferrari, but Kia called you back first and had the nice salesperson, so you bought a Kia?

That's an apples and oranges comparison and you know it. If Trotec was the only laser that could do the job I wanted then your comparison is realistic, but, let's face it, they are really all doing the same job with a few minor differences. That's not true for Ferrari and Kia.

I know exactly what I want out of my next laser - large bed, pass through doors, air assist, plunger type auto focus, GCC style rotary, no glass tube. If I email to the various manufacturers and they don't bother to reply then I might call them if I'm pretty sure they have what I am looking for. If that doesn't result in some sort of dialogue then I'm done with that manufacturer. With the economy the way it is I can't see anyone losing a sale simply by not replying to a phone call or email.

Gary

Scott Shepherd
10-07-2012, 3:55 PM
That's an apples and oranges comparison and you know it. If Trotec was the only laser that could do the job I wanted then your comparison is realistic, but, let's face it, they are really all doing the same job with a few minor differences. That's not true for Ferrari and Kia.

If you think Epilog and Trotec are the same, you're in need of an education on the differences. The two aren't in the same league and the differences are anything but "minor" in the world of production.

Given the same jobs in a product environment, the two aren't even in the same class, hence the reference. Just because you don't think there is a real difference doesn't mean there isn't a real difference.

Ronald Erickson
10-07-2012, 4:28 PM
I don't have an issue with it being posted, but I do take issue with Trotec as being painted as someone that's doing something that every other manufacturer does as well. I can assure you, we paid a lot more for our Epilog than others did, and we paid less for our ULS than others did.

It's not Trotec, it's ALL of the big manufacturers that have sales reps. If you were a sales rep, you'd be trying to get all you could too. That's how they make their living. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything. If you aren't happy with the price, don't buy it.

Like I said, this has been happening in trade shows since trade shows started. It's not unique to the laser world.

We bought a plotter. Price before the show was $3500. Show price was $2700. We asked if we could get the show price without going to show. Nope. Had to go to the show.

We are looking at large format printers. Asking price is $25,500. I've seen people negotiating them down to the $12,995 area. If I hadn't known that, we'd be planning to spend about $20,000 on one.

In all fairness, to balance this out, we'd need show pricing from Epilog and Universal.

The only reason I started the thread was to specifically point out the Sawmill Creek pricing I received from Trotec and directly compare it to the show pricing that Trotec was offering to all its customers. I absolutely LOVE that Trotec is willing to partner with Sawmill Creek to offer discount pricing just because it wants to support Sawmill Creek. However, if you search through the 13411 threads JUST in the engraving section, there is only 1 post that actually shares the pricing information from Trotec, and even then it's only non-show pricing.

So part of my intent is to actually be open and transparent about the Sawmill Creek pricing I received when I contacted Amie. Keep in mind that Amie didn't actually provide the price quote. She contacted my local rep who then provided the pricing you see above. However, it was represented to me that the pricing I received is "special" and only applies because I am a member of Sawmill Creek. I welcome other members to share the pricing they've received. This is only MY experience, thus far.

I have absolutely no ill-will towards Trotec or my sales rep. and I am not "painting" them in any way. They are the one company that I have been actively dealing with to purchase a laser. I am merely presenting the facts and I'm trying to remain unbiased with their presentation. I ask other members to also please not impart emotion into the discussion. Be fair, be honest. We all benefit if manufacturers take note and examine their pricing practices. Just because "everyone" does it doesn't make it right. It's a perfect opportunity for a company, any company, to say "It doesn't matter than you're not here at the show, I still want you as a customer".

The way my experience has worked out thus far has compromised my trust in the pricing I am being offered, hence the reason I am reaching out to other members of Sawmill Creek to find out what they paid and what there experience has been. I've received many private messages from other members sharing their purchase price and I am greatly appreciative and indebted to them for sharing. For the same system that I initially requested a price quote on, I found out that I would have paid over six-thousand dollars more than other's have paid just by attending a trade show. To me, that's a big deal. What's more ironic is that had I received the show pricing in the first place, I would probably have stretched my budget and purchased the Speedy 300 with an 80w rather than dismissing the machine and focusing on the smaller, less expensive Speedy 100 with 40w.

As it is the weekend, neither Amie nor my sales rep has had a chance to respond and I don't believe the story to be over by any means. As I stated in the first post, I HAVE received another offer from my regional Trotec sales rep, but I was specifically asked not to publish the information. I will respect their wishes and not publish the modified price quote. However, it was after I received this quote that I found out how outrageous the first quotes were compared to show pricing. It's because of the first quote pricing that I am doubting the second quote, especially if I can do better just by going to a trade show.

I absolutely agree that this thread would be more valuable if we had show pricing from both Epilog and Universal. Steve, will you be attending the Las Vegas show and be willing to forward any pricing information you receive?

As I do not have Epilog show pricing so all I can publish is the initial price sheet I received from my dealer in MN. I believe these are "list" prices because my dealer did show a willingness to "make a deal", though it hasn't progressed to beyond trading a few emails:

242683


"The first rule of Laser Price Club is: You do not talk about Laser Price Club". :D

Gary Hair
10-07-2012, 4:53 PM
If you think Epilog and Trotec are the same, you're in need of an education on the differences.

Educate me - don't just state "faster", "better", etc., without supporting facts (numbers, measurements, times, etc.) otherwise you are just stating opinions, and we all know the analogy about opinions and a certain part of the anatomy...

Just to be clear - I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm truly interested in real world facts. My next purchase will be based on the info I gather between now and then and I would appreciate your input.

Gary

Keith Outten
10-07-2012, 5:54 PM
I thought that show prices were only offered for the machines that were at the show. The discounts offered at a show reflect the fact that you are responsible to remove the machine after the show and the vendor doesn't have to deal with the cost of shipping the machine back to their office or warehouse. Since they normally run the machines at a show they are used machines, the second half of the discount.

Now, you have to realize that selling laser engravers isn't the same as table saws. Given what they cost and a lower number of potential customers laser engravers are not stacked up in a warehouse very often. The sales representatives don't sell many machines in a week so there are not many reps on the payroll. In the case of Trotec my sales rep spent two days in my shop when my machine arrived, that is a lot of time for a person whose territory covers several states. Patience is required when you decide you want a new laser engraver folks, you have to wait your turn to be served.

Gary, you want metrics concerning Trotec machines. Lets start with a thorough inspection of what you can and can't see when you open the lid and look inside. Right away you will notice a huge difference.....take a look for yourself. If you can't find a Trotec in your area I would be glad to post some pictures and point out some features that are nothing short of first class engineering. Hint number one, can you see any belts?

I started with an Epilog, then a Xenetech, then a Chinese machine and now a Trotec Speedy 300. The difference in these machines are as big a stretch as the Ferrari and the Kia.

I agree with Steve that you shouldn't settle on a machine just because the salesman is prompt returning your call. Maybe he isn't busy because his machines aren't selling. Maybe the company that is more difficult to communicate with is busy selling machines and you just have to stand in line to buy a superior machine. In any event a business machine that you will rely on to pay your bills and feed your family deserves serious consideration.

IMO most of the manufacturers offer models that are good machines, some have models that you would not want to purchase among the good machines they offer. You can look in this Forum and identify the models that are lemons and find out where they came from so you can cross them off your list.

If you want to purchase a Trotec call Amie McGee. If she is at a trade show you might have to wait a couple days so be patient and make sure Amie provides you a price before she connects you to your local sales rep.
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TAMI WILSON
10-07-2012, 6:11 PM
Knowing what I think I know. :-) That Trotec is the best laser out there. If they would only offer honest and open pricing, they could blow the other two out of the water. But unfortunatly it ain't gonna happen.

Tami

Ronald Erickson
10-07-2012, 7:40 PM
The definition of "show pricing" that I am using is the price that someone pays when they place an order at the show for a new machine. They may offer additional discounts on the floor models they are using at the show, but that is not what I am referring to in this case.

You've got no argument from me that the Trotec machines are a superior design. That's what attracted me to them in the first place. Prior to reading about them on Sawmill Creek, I didn't even know they existed. When you google "laser engraver", Trotec doesn't even come up on the first page of hits (unless they happen to pop up under the "ads" section). Most of the information I have gathered regarding the quality of a Trotec has been from Sawmill Creek members. For this I thank them.

I have yet to see a Trotec laser in person and yet I STILL want to buy one. :) I just have to get past this pricing snafu first. Had the Sawmill Creek pricing I received up front matched what Trotec was offering at the trade show (instead of being 27% higher), I firmly believe I would already have a laser on order and I would not have had any need to start this thread.

Gary Hair
10-07-2012, 9:22 PM
Patience is required when you decide you want a new laser engraver folks, you have to wait your turn to be served. Can you imagine how our customers would react to that kind of attitude? If they are that good and in that high of demand then they need to ramp up whatever part of the sales cycle is lagging and satisfy their (potential)customers. If their equipment is as amazing as you say it is, and I have no reason to doubt you, then if they coupled quality sales with their quality machine, they would literally be the only one left in business.


Gary, you want metrics concerning Trotec machines. Lets start with a thorough inspection of what you can and can't see when you open the lid and look inside. Right away you will notice a huge difference.....take a look for yourself. A nice looking machine full of fantastic engineering is great, but that's not "metrics" Keith, I want to see output comparisons. Not "max speed", "max power", etc., you and I both know that theoretical maximum speeds usually don't mean as much in the real world. For example, my GCC Explorer ZX has a max raster speed of 80ips and max vector speed of 40ips - I almost never use more than about 15% speed and for the bulk of my rastering (I use a lot of Cermark) and I rarely use above 10% vectoring speed (I cut a lot of acrylic and Rowmark). So it doesn't really matter if I have 40ips or 4ips when I vector or 80ips or 8ips when I raster, it's not going to affect output.


If you can't find a Trotec in your area I would be glad to post some pictures and point out some features that are nothing short of first class engineering. Hint number one, can you see any belts?
I haven't even started looking at them, it won't be until after the first of the year before I start getting serious. I would, however, appreciate some pictures of your machine.


I agree with Steve that you shouldn't settle on a machine just because the salesman is prompt returning your call.
I'm not talking about "settling" on an inferior machine, I'm talking about purchasing a machine that can accomplish the task at hand. Using your analogy - if all you did was drive your kid to school about three blocks away, would you be better off with the Kia or the Ferrari? What if you, your wife and kids needed a vehicle to get to soccer games - Ferrari or Kia? If both vehicles accomplish the task, the Ferrari rep ignores you until you have plead your request to buy their product, and the Kia rep calls back, who gets your business?


IMO most of the manufacturers offer models that are good machines, some have models that you would not want to purchase among the good machines they offer.

My point exactly. If they all offer good machines that will do the job then I'm not about to waste my precious time "pestering" a sales rep that doesn't have the time to return my inquiry. Even though I know the sales rep doesn't do tech support when things go wrong, if they can't afford to have more reps to keep up with the demand then how can they afford techs to keep up with support? They may have a superior product but everything breaks down no matter how good they are.

Gary

Ronald Erickson
10-07-2012, 10:07 PM
I need to make an update to the following post. As I can't edit the original post past a certain time limit, I will make the corrections in a new post. I've bolded the corrections I need to make:


When I first approached Trotec, it was via their website. I had not received any reply to my pricing inquiry (not uncommon based on other posts in the forum) so I contacted Keith on SMC to get the SMC Trotec Vendor Rep contact information (Amie McGee). I had hopes that by going through Amie I could secure reasonable pricing; high hopes in fact due to the work Keith has done to get Sawmill Creek members a discount. While Amie was very knowledgeable and a pleasure to speak with, she didn't go into pricing and instead handed me off to a local vendor rep. It's the local vendor rep who provided the price quotes attached above. In subsequest discussions with Keith, the normal process would have been to call Amie, get pricing, & order the system; working with the local vendor rep would have occurred after the order was placed.

While I contacted Amie via voice mail the day the show started, she didn't get back to me until three days after the show (which is understandable), but didn't offer show pricing. It would have went a long way for her to have said "Here's the pricing we were offering at the show. Even though the show is over, I'd be happy to sell you a system at those prices." (By the way, I did send her both her and my local rep an email to give them a chance to respond.)

I can certainly understand why people don't want to discuss pricing. No one wants to feel like they've paid too much, and no one wants others to feel bad because others didn't get as good of a price. My purpose in posting is to share the information so that others don't ever feel like they are getting taken. In my case, it would have been to the tune of $6000 had my budget been willing to spend that much.

What's unfortunate is that the people who can't attend a show won't necessarily have the opportunity to pay the show pricing.

I just discovered that I am in error with part of this posting. When I submitted my price quote request online, I had listed my cell phone number and put notes in the comments section to receive the price quote via email. As I was expecting an email (and not a phone call) I didn't have my cell phone turned on.

My local Trotec rep DID in fact try to contact me via my cell phone the very next day. I so rarely use my cell phone that I had it off until this evening (10/7). That's when I discovered the voice message from my local Trotec rep when he called 9/17 in response to my price request on 9/16.

I was in error and I feel bad about my mistake. I make this apology not because Trotec has asked me to, but because I have discovered my error and it is the right thing to do.

I apologize to Trotec and the Trotec rep for the mistake I have made about my Trotec reps initial lack of contacting me. I was in error assuming I would only receive contact via email and I made this particular statement based upon the initial lack of email contact.

The positive spin is I requested information from Trotec on 9/16 (Sunday) and had a Trotec rep call me the very next day! :o:)

It may also explain why Amie handed me off to my local Trotec rep rather than discussing pricing on the initial phone call with Amie. If the local Trotec rep had already initiated the sales callback 9/17 (without my knowing it), it makes sense for her to allow the sale to progress through the local sales rep rather than making the quote herself. It will be interesting to speak with Amie to confirm my suspicions.

Mike Null
10-08-2012, 7:45 AM
Rules regarding show specials vary by company. Some offer specials during shows only on whatever is purchased there. Others offer specials on demo models. Some offer special pricing during shows whether or not you can attend.

Pricing is always negotiated on ULS, Epilog and Trotec just as if they were automobiles.

Scott Shepherd
10-08-2012, 8:25 AM
A nice looking machine full of fantastic engineering is great, but that's not "metrics" Keith, I want to see output comparisons. Not "max speed", "max power", etc., you and I both know that theoretical maximum speeds usually don't mean as much in the real world.

Gary, us saying it isn't going to convince you. Keith and I have both posted differences in times compared to our other machines. I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head, but I did a granite tile that would normally have taken 40-50 minutes in something like 12 minutes. To me, that's about as real world as you can get.

Here's a clip of that tile. I know the tile looks blown out, but I tweaked the color down so it wasn't blown out and the customer said he didn't like it and wanted it back like the photo was (which was blown out)....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8voX7ldqY3I&feature=context-cha

I have many, many real world examples of how much more productive this machine is, which to us, means more profitable.


Here's how's part of the motion system is built. Note how fat the belts are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrrXxzk84QE&feature=plcp

I have said this a number of times and I'll say it again. If you're vector cutting, it moves so fast, you honestly can't see it move. I've video taped it a number of times and even watching on video, you can't see it move from place to place if it's under a few inches of travel.

I also agree, you need to pick the machine that fits your business. I would never recommend a laser to someone without spending at least 30-60 minutes talking to them to fully understand what they plan to use it for. A Chinese last might be the right tool for some, while the Trotec might be the right tool for others.

Keith Outten
10-08-2012, 1:26 PM
Last January we received our new Speedy 300 75 watt laser at Christopher Newport University. We decided that because we had three very large new buildings under construction and had to fabricate 850 ADA door signs and over 400 specialty signs in just seven months we needed a second machine to meet the schedule.

We ran the Trotec and our 60 watt Xenetech concurrently for the first month. We found out the we didn't need to use the Xenetech, the Trotec was so fast it kept up with our production all by itself. After seven months we were ahead of schedule, the Xenetech hasn't been turned on since last February which suits me fine.

Xenetech 60 watt averages 12 minutes per door sign to engrave.
Trotec 75 watt averages 4 minutes per door sign to engrave.
The large power supply is a big deal, add to that the engraving acceleration speed.

All of the engraving work was done on Dupont Corian plastic to a depth of 0.034".

Seven months of production work is more scientific than metrics from just one job. We probably did about $200,000.00 in sign work.

I was so impressed with the Trotec Laser at CNU I ordered a Speedy 300 80 watt machine for my sign shop at home.
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Ronald Erickson
10-08-2012, 1:46 PM
<snip> If you can't find a Trotec in your area I would be glad to post some pictures and point out some features that are nothing short of first class engineering.
.

Hey Keith, I'd be very interested in you posting pictures of your Speedy 300. Finding detailed pictures online is a bit difficult. Maybe a "Speedy 300 Pictures" thread could be started so others who have (or will be receiving) Speedy 300's could contribute?

I was talking to my father today and he was very excited to learn about the construction of the lasers I'm interested in. He is a retired Hardinge CNC systems tech (think CNC equipment with accuracy in the five-millionths of an inch) and he used to repair 3M's multi-thousand watt lasers. His questions to me were "How wide are the belts, who makes the servo motors, etc.". (I knew the belts were 1 inch but I had no idea who made the motors. He was guessing with German engineering they would be Siemens and said they were a good brand.)

I have a feeling that when I buy a laser he'll want to tear it apart and put it back together... just for fun. :D

Keith Outten
10-08-2012, 6:10 PM
I will take some pictures right after dinner this evening.

TAMI WILSON
10-09-2012, 3:22 AM
Seems to me that if Trotec would just advertise a fair price and stop all the "Used car salesman games" they could blow the competition out of the water.

Tami

Jiten Patel
10-09-2012, 4:48 AM
Anyone got any thoughts on the new Speedy 400? Thinking about getting this or a Chinese one - tough choice really considering the massive price difference (1 machine vs 5 for the same price!).

Rodne Gold
10-09-2012, 5:30 AM
I think it depends on your application..if you were cutting 6mm acrylic all day , I would buy chinese , if you are looking for delicate and complex thin card cutting at high speed , I don't think the chinese machines , configured as they are right now , will do.

Jiten Patel
10-09-2012, 5:38 AM
Rodne, I completely hear you. We are having the same debate. The thing is, we want the big machine we get to mainly do other things as our galvo takes care of the delicate paper stuff. Want to be able to engrave and cut Acrylics, woods etc but still achieving similar details for the 2nd stage of our business. Love the speedy 300 when we used one but the bed size is simply too small. The 500 is great, but we know someone who has one and doesn't sing it's praises. The 400 is perfect, but is coming in at around £30k .

Rodne Gold
10-09-2012, 6:08 AM
Why don't you get a 300 for the delicate stuff and then buy a larger format cheap machine for the "dog work " and big items, use the price difference tween the 300 and 400 to get the cheapy. 2 for 1..sort off ?

We basically analysed the major thrust of the work we do or intend to do and found that about 95% of all our jobs can fit into a smaller machine .. even multiples (im not keen on running huge sheets with 100's of items , as any glitch can cost you a lot of time and money - I would rather split a big job up)
We found a size like 600 x 400 was more than adequate for just about everything..

There might have been one or 2 occasions where I have lost a job due to the size , but for me its not anywhere near worth spending the extra on a huge machine to cover those. If I look at the honeycomb of our large format 1200 x 800 chinese laser - we see that most of the real estate was a waste....

My situation is different , labour here is relatively cheap and i got space ..so having 2 or 3 ppl loading , operating and unloading lets say , 5 slower machines is not a problem ... for a single owner or a small shop with few employees and space limitation , running 5 machines that take the place of one faster one might be more of a problem.

As to pricing , I'm not sure why everything has to be so secretive and it seems somewhat arbitary as to what one user pays over and above another..I know if I found out that someone got the same machine as me at a 25% discount , I would have a sour taste in my mouth...I think the whole sales structure might be to unwieldy in these modern times..who knows..

Jiten Patel
10-09-2012, 6:27 AM
Space is an issue and we do not have the manpower as you do, so the speedy may be a viable option. The new business venture will use the real estate often. We do 900x600 pieces all the time (out-sourced at the moment) but with what we have planned, we will be doing a lot more. The 300 is great, and I am sure I can get one for a good price, but the limitation in size would mean we wouldn't have creative freedom and would still need to outsource, something we want to avoid. Having the right machine in-house means I can go from design concept to finished product in a day, rather than design, post to laser guy, he cuts, sends back and we find something doesn't look right - repeat process.

I think the application is key here - most folks with lasers use them for production like yourself (correct me if I am wrong). Jobs come in and are priced and fulfilled with very little off-the-shelf type products. We would be doing to opposite and creating an off-the-shelf line for sale in addition to doing one-offs and custom work.

Pricing is a little annoying and I agree, not really sure why folks are so secretive. I will tell anyone who asks how much we paid as it may help them when buying theirs. They should have a fixed priced system, with maybe a few freebies thrown in to sweeten the deal such as free air assist or rotary. It would make life a lot simpler for people buying and probably a lot easier for the manufacturer When we purchased our galvo, we negotiated, and re-negotiated hard. We ended up with £10k knocked off the price which was a huge saving.

john banks
10-09-2012, 8:56 AM
Can say a Trotec Speedy 300 80W engrave fine detail at its highest resolution at full power and speed without loss of quality?

Is there ever any reason to slow down for fine detail or for tube response time for a high speed/power combination? If not, I'm sure it is an exciting machine for rastering, just we don't do much rastering and lots of cutting, but that is perhaps because it plays to the strengths of our machine. If expanding and we had a lot of rastering work a Speedy might go well with our Chinese cutter.

Scott Shepherd
10-09-2012, 9:07 AM
Can say a Trotec Speedy 300 80W engrave fine detail at its highest resolution at full power and speed without loss of quality?

Is there ever any reason to slow down for fine detail or for tube response time for a high speed/power combination? If not, I'm sure it is an exciting machine for rastering, just we don't do much rastering and lots of cutting, but that is perhaps because it plays to the strengths of our machine. If expanding and we had a lot of rastering work a Speedy might go well with our Chinese cutter.

I've never seen a loss in quality at 100% speed on any of our lasers, Universal or Trotec. Our ULS runs 100% speed on 6 pt. fonts all the time. Trotec quality is very sharp, even at full speed.

Keith Outten
10-09-2012, 9:13 AM
Here are a few pictures of my 80 watt Speedy 300.
Notice in the engraving table area how everything is covered, the belts and linear movement components are protected from the dust and smoke. The air line is the only component that is visible on thr back side of the carriage.

Keith Outten
10-09-2012, 9:15 AM
On the right side of the cabinet you can see the air compressor which is completely silent.

Ronald Erickson
10-09-2012, 11:59 AM
I just got off the phone with Amie. Our discussion was very productive and she was able to share her perspective on show pricing. I'm very appreciative of Amie taking the time (43 minute call) to speak with me about my experience and I look forward to working with Trotec to purchase a system.

Mike Null
10-09-2012, 12:16 PM
Along the same line, trade show attendance has been declining and is a real concern to all exhibitors. For me, attending trade shows is a great learning experience and I consider them to be vital. Not only do you find aggressive pricing but, even more important sometimes, you learn about new materials and techniques and even new vendors.

Ross Moshinsky
10-09-2012, 3:20 PM
As someone that is pretty familiar with the trade show industry, "special pricing" is designed into having people make decisions after 30 minutes or pushing people on the edge into making a decision. It makes no sense that one day a machine is $23,000 and the next day it is $30,000. If you sell 10 machines in one day and none the rest of the month or 10 machines over a 30 day period, what is the big difference? There is none. Sale prices are there to force you into making a decision. It's no different then any other one day sale. Nothing has changed. It's just a way to push people over the edge to buy. Again, this isn't about Trotec but everyone in the industry.

I'd suggest negotiating hard and if they refuse to budge, place the order while the trade show is going on. Call up a salesman and make the deal happen while they are on the show floor. Believe me, it's not unheard of.

Ronald Erickson
10-10-2012, 12:39 PM
Keith,

It's good that companies follow the forums and a smart thing to follow social media; word of mouth is no longer limited to those within audible distance.

Khalid Nazim
10-10-2012, 1:52 PM
They should offer a sale price during trade show dates which is available to anyone irrespective of the person visiting the show. Only offering the special price at the floor is limiting their sale potential. I don't get it! In the current environment of all info available to everyone this type of behavior is not good business. If all mainstream laser companies are doing this then we as consumers must convey our displeasure at this behavior and demand a change.

Kim Vellore
10-10-2012, 2:31 PM
I was looking at the Epilog quote and one of the standard feature includes a plumber for air assist... I think that is a good deal...

Kim

Mike Null
10-10-2012, 2:32 PM
Khalid
I guess you showed 'em.

Martin Boekers
10-10-2012, 6:06 PM
Trade Show pricing, my theory is they have many qualified buyers at one place and one time looking to by
a product, they discuss it, they negotiate, they sell it and move on to the next. What can take place in a matter
of hours, by telephone or emails can take much longer. This is no different than any other industry, many use
rebates as opposed to special pricing. At a show they are in direct competion with other manufacturers, so
you can go and and do the "trade Show Shuffle" until you feel you got the best price. I have bought equipment
or product from vendors that I didn't attend the show and got show pricing. Sometimes all it takes is asking the right person.

More troubling to myself is getting a bad representative that has your territory and you can't purchase from anyone else.

Michael Kowalczyk
10-10-2012, 11:49 PM
I think we need to get some cheese with all this wine(ing). :) When I was partner in a 180 unit apt complex I used to here it all the time. Well Suzie in #104 is only paying $450.00 for her 1 bedroom, why is mine $515.00? We would say that when you signed the lease you agreed to the price. We can not discuss other peoples leases. If you do not think it is a good deal now, why did you think it was good when you signed the lease? Some units have upgrades and some were first floor and some had pool view. same thing with lasers...some have some bells and others have whistles. Some have bells and whistles. Some have 1 year warranty and others may have 2 or 3. So many variables. Some people are not as good negotiators as others. Some allow emotion/impulse to make their decisions. If you are not happy with how someone sells their product, learn to say "NEXT". If they sell the product you want, find someone else that sells it or go to upper management.

Every week you here new commercials for suits, furniture, mattresses, jewelery, clothes and electronics...25% off, 50% off, BOGO and the famous early bird special after Thanksgiving or Filene's basement wedding dress sale. Why would anyone shop these places if they were not having a sale and yet there are people in there all the time buying when there is no out of this world sale. Why????????

Because there are needs and wants. When you need something you get it when you need it at the going rate. When you want something you get it when you want and that means you are willing to wait until you can get it for the price you want and are not afraid to say next or I'll wait til it goes on sale. Just my 2.3 cents. (Inflation):eek:

Keith Outten
10-11-2012, 6:43 AM
I have no inside knowledge about how trade shows work but I have always thought that for some vendors they were primarily an advertising venue. Basically the companies that sold large machines or very expensive items would be happy to sell their floor models at the show discounting the price to cover their costs associated with the event. As I stated earlier when they ran machines for two to four days at a trade show they were then considered used equipment which was another reason to offer deep discounts. If a company could offset all of their advertising costs at a trade show by sacrificing most of their profit for a machine or two and break even on the event it made sense to me that it deferred their advertising costs and eventually could mean increased sales in the near future.

The other side of the coin is the more traditional woodworking shows where the majority of the vendors are there to sell their products and they brought a truckload of items offering small discounts to encourage on the spot sales.

A small advertisement in a woodworking magazine can cost $3,000.00 per issue or per month which is 36 grand per year. This ad has to spawn a lot of sales or it isn't a wise investment. At a trade show the tables are turned so to speak in that rather than paying an advertiser the customer is offered a discount that would have been spent paying a magazine or for a Television commercial. If a portion of every machines selling price has to be dedicated to advertising then it makes sense to attend trade shows and redirect the costs in another direction that might add another customer to the books. At the same time a happy customer will then provide the word of mouth advertising that everyone knows is the most beneficial to any company.

I never have become upset when a friend of mine got a killer deal on a machine they purchased at a trade show when I paid the standard price ordering from home or from a local vendor. I didn't invest the time and expense to attend the trade show and time is money. When I purchase locally I know that the company has rent and other expenses that each machine sold has to provide the necessary income to cover the costs. There is a major benefit when you can visit a local store and see tools and machines first hand and have an experienced sales staff to answer questions. I don't mind paying for these options because it is a fair cost of doing business.

Several years ago when the economy took a nose dive every company in the world took a long look at their inventory and the costs associated with keeping large numbers of machines and materials in stock. The result of that fiasco is that we all know that today we must wait a bit longer than we used to when we purchase equipment and materials. Some companies lost the volume shipping discounts that they used to receive when they could order in large quantities to maintain their inventory. Today large inventories are often impractical. We don't even need to discuss what rising fuel costs do to the prices of everything we purchase.
.

Ronald Erickson
10-11-2012, 7:31 PM
Thread Update: I spoke with Amie and my sales rep today. The end result is I'm currently filling out the paperwork to purchase a Speedy 300 80w system from Trotec. :D:D:D

I've been asked not to share the pricing. However I can confirm that if you're in the market for a laser, attending a trade show will most likely net you the greatest cost savings with the least amount of negotiations. (SGIA Expo 2012 is next week in Las Vegas, October 18-20; Trotec will be there in Booth 3039)

Thank you to Keith and Sawmill Creek for getting me connected with Trotec. :)

Ronald Erickson
10-21-2012, 1:55 PM
Update: The laser has been ordered, the deposit has been paid, and the balance check has been sent. I expect to receive a shipping date this week.

On a side note, I made a trip to Harbor Freight to pick up a green dust collector http://www.harborfreight.com/13-gallon-industrial-portable-dust-collector-31810.html . The blower noise is quite reasonable and unobtrusive. The blower vibrates a little when operating so I'll see if I can adjust the balance of the impeller.

Gary Hair
10-21-2012, 2:10 PM
Ron,
If you paid full price for that blower you should return it and use the coupon in this link - 20% off! Also, they put that thing on sale quite often, I just bought one for about $90 a month ago.

http://www.harborfreight.com/digitalsavings.html

Gary

Ronald Erickson
10-21-2012, 2:14 PM
Of COURSE I used a coupon. :D I'm on their email list so I used a 20% off my entire purchase coupon. You offer good advice though, thanks!

I had hoped it would have been on sale AND use a 20% off coupon, but no such luck (I've been watching for a couple of weeks now). My laser will be arriving soon so I need to get the exhaust system completed.

Keith Outten
10-21-2012, 2:18 PM
Ron,

We use the same dust collector for our Speedy 300 in the sign shop at CNU. It has just a bit more air flow than you need but it works well. I made a couple brackets and mounted a piece of plywood on top for the DC to set on using a couple bolts. The DC is mounted high on the wall above the Trotec so the exhaust line is about 6" long through a masonry wall with a dryer vent installed.

Works real nice.
.

Ronald Erickson
10-21-2012, 2:38 PM
I'll be passing the exhaust out a window, so I'll most likely build a dog house type structure to mount the blower in outside and wire in a GFCI with a switch to turn on the blower. I was thinking of using a blast gate to control the suction but I don't want to create excess stress on the blower if I need to close it off (to reduce extraction in the laser). I'll most likely use a wye-fitting with a blast gate to regulate the air flow; As I close off the blast gate, more suction will be created at the laser. I'll probably route the other end of the wye back outside so I'm not drawing the extra heat from the home.

Of course, that brings up the issue of creating a backdraft at the gas water heater flue if I create negative pressure from the laser exhaust. Hmm, so many things to consider when setting up the exhaust indoors.

Edit: I just tested the blower with a kill-a-watt. The end result is the motor amp draw actually goes down the more suction you block off. With full suction, it pulls 6.8 amps. With the suction completely blocked off, it pulls less than 6 amps. My conclusion is I won't need a wye-fitting to control the air flow; a single blast gate shutting off the suction should work nicely.

Gary Hair
10-21-2012, 5:55 PM
Edit: I just tested the blower with a kill-a-watt. The end result is the motor amp draw actually goes down the more suction you block off. With full suction, it pulls 6.8 amps. With the suction completely blocked off, it pulls less than 6 amps. My conclusion is I won't need a wye-fitting to control the air flow; a single blast gate shutting off the suction should work nicely.

Most dust collectors are similar, reduce airflow and see a reduction in current draw, unlike a shop-vac where a reduction in airflow makes the motor work harder.

Gary

P.S. Glad you used a coupon, too bad you didn't get the sale and coupon...