Paring Chisels

[Dave Lehnert]

Like to get a Paring Chisel or two. What would be the best all round size to start with?
What is your favorite brand?

[David Weaver]

Where are you going to use it (like what joints, etc, how big are the joints, what do you build...)

Are you looking for western and can you rehabilitate a chisel? If so, I would go for something vintage with an octagonal bolster.

Pare with your bench chisels for a few weeks on joints where you expect you might use a paring chisel, that should give you an idea of what width you'd like.

[Dave Lehnert]

I do about any kind of woodworking project. Never know what project is next.

[bridger berdel]

get a few. I like old ones. 3/4" or 1" are probably my most used. then 1/4" and something wide, 2" or so.

[Sean Richards]

Like to get a Paring Chisel or two. What would be the best all round size to start with?
What is your favorite brand?

I use 1" and 3/4" the most. No modern so-called paring chisels are thin and flexible enough to be anywhere near as nice to use as a decent vintage paring chisel.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I haven't tried every new paring chisel, but I tend to agree with Sean - the flex of a vintage paring chisel is really nice, and the new ones I've used are just too thick and stiff. I have and old Marples I really liked, except it's developed this spot in the middle of it that always chips away - I tried grinding past it, and I get the same thing, it's just the spot has moved a hair to the right.

Unless you're doing pattern-making sort of stuff where you need a specific chisel to get into specific places, in my experience, something widish, like an 1" is nice, and covers most of what you need, then something smaller, like 1/4", to get into tighter places. Once you get down the hand for controlling it, something even wider, like 1 1/2" or 2" can work nicely for smoothing out grain or fairing a curve somewhere a plane can't reach, that you want smooth but don't care about flat. (I guess I recommend the same sizes Bridger does) Having more than one is a luxury worth chasing if you can, because these benefit from being *sharp*.

If you have a nice flexy paring chisel that doesn't hold an edge well, they're really advantageous for cleaning glue squeeze out sometimes as well.

I've used old Marples and Buck Brothers and liked them both a lot. Be careful if you're buying on the auction site - a lot of folks will title anything long as a paring chisel, when in reality a lot of them are just stout and thick firmer type chisels that happen to be long. No reason you can't use any long chisel for paring, but if you want the thin and slightly flexy paring chisel, these are not it.

[bob blakeborough]

No modern so-called paring chisels are thin and flexible enough to be anywhere near as nice to use as a decent vintage paring chisel.

Some are, but you will pay a solid price for them...

http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/PDGImages/PRCH_PROD.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Dave

I have two types of paring chisels. The first are small detail chisels, the Blue Spruce - also known as dovetail chisels. The blades are thin, the steel (although A2 and requiring a 30 degree bevel) takes and holds an excellent edge. The handles are beautifully shaped and altogether these chisels are very balanced. They are very useful when doing fine, delicate work. They are all about control, not power. Sizes 1/8" to 3/4". There is no point in going big with these chisels. I mainly use the 1/8, 3/6" and 1/4" for small dovetails.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/IMG_2149.jpg

The second type of parer I have are at the opposite end of the spectrum - long handled Kiyohesi Japanese slicks in sizes 1/4" to 1 1/2". There is no point in getting smaller than 1/4". In fact I rarely use this size here. These chisels are about power. The blades are quite thin for this type of chisel, but still much thicker than vintage Western paring chisels. Nevertheless they are very balanced and provide a great deal of feedback - which is what this type of chisel is all about. These blades are simply amazing for taking an edge. You will need to look at another maker, however, unless you are prepared to wait some years (I waited three).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Kiyohisa/12.jpg

I am going to add a third set of chisels. These are actually bench chisels but they are so well balanced and take and hold such a good edge that they deserve to be included: the new Veritas PM-V11 bench chisels (below are the O1 versions). They have nice long handles (for bench chisels), and are capable of both delicate and power work. True Jack of All Trades.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/LV%20Chisel%20Review/New8.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dave Lehnert]

Thanks for all the info. Good info to know about older ones being more flexible.
I was going to ask about the Blue Spruce brand. They look very well made.
Any info on the sorby, They are available local.

[James Owen]

.......Any info on the sorby, They are available local.

The Sorbys tend to be tempered a bit on the soft side, with the resulting ease of sharpening and lack of edge holding..... It's good that they are easy to sharpen, because you'll be doing a lot of it..... Based on my experience with them, I can't recommend them.
If you're interested in English-made chisels, take a look at the Henry Taylor; much nicer, and better made than the Sorbys, IMO, for about the same money.

[Jim Neeley]

Dave,

You will not find the Blue Spruce chisels sold retail. They are made to order with the wood of your choice and a couple of handle length options. Dave Jeske makes great tools and is a great guy but you have to be willing to wait a few weeks to get them.

Jim

[Jim Matthews]

Did you see Bridger Bardel's post, below?

[John Coloccia]

The Sorbys tend to be tempered a bit on the soft side, with the resulting ease of sharpening and lack of edge holding..... It's good that they are easy to sharpen, because you'll be doing a lot of it..... Based on my experience with them, I can't recommend them.
If you're interested in English-made chisels, take a look at the Henry Taylor; much nicer, and better made than the Sorbys, IMO, for about the same money.

I have several Taylor paring chisels. They are fine chisels. You don't happen to live in New England, do you? There's a guy near Look Park in Massachusetts that has a LOT of old chisels and things. He seems to specialize in old tools. Rulers, dividers, watchmakers lathes, hundreds of chisels, scissors, other machinists tools, axes, etc etc etc. His shop is the size of a large bedroom, but is packed with an absolutely incredible assortment of stuff. You'll spend an hour in there.

[Sean Richards]

Derek,

When I was working with a patternmaker (a crusty old Yorkshireman who had served his time at Jaguar) some years ago if he had asked me to pass him a paring chisel and I had had handed him any of the chisels in your photos he would most likely have told me to stop playing silly buggers and pass him a paring chisel ...

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah. Changes to the pattern making trade because of modern innovation have probably actually had a big influence on what chisel type are made .I have some old core box gouges that are so long you could make two gouges out of them. But NO, I won't send you half. Sorry.

[bridger berdel]

Did you see Bridger Bardel's post, below?


the chisel in that picture seems to be modern. I haven't cleaned it up yet. it's a size I didn't have, 1/2" and nice and long. I'm happy to have it.


actually, the size I am now feeling the lack of is 3/8" wide. somehow I don't seem to run into too many that size.

Bridger

[Rick Fisher]

I have the Blue Spruce paring chisels and bought them from thebestthings.com

They are flexible but very long. They hold an edge well and are pretty easy to sharpen.

I also have some Japanese paring chisels and really like them. They are not at all easy to sharpen compared to the Blue Spruce, but hold an edge much longer ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1020548.jpg

The Henry Taylors are cranked. They are really easy to sharpen, but hold an edge the least longest of the three .. Nice but specific use tools.. I added them because I doubt the non - cranked are much different ..

I am doing an Afromosia project right now.. Used the Japanese ( Tasai ) chisels on Afromosia and Ebony extensively and the woods dulled them .. My best chisels go dull pretty fast when working abrasive wood ..

I would highly recommend the blue spruce or any quality Japanese chisel .. The Blue Spruce are really nicely made, you can tell right away that your holding a quality tool. The downside IMO is they aren't as comfortable due to the length .. Just my opinion..

I would really like to hear from someone who has the Nishiki extra thin paring chisels.. I suspect they are really good .. ( sold by toolsforwoodworking.com)

[Jim Neeley]

Derek,

When I was working with a patternmaker (a crusty old Yorkshireman who had served his time at Jaguar) some years ago if he had asked me to pass him a paring chisel and I had had handed him any of the chisels in your photos he would most likely have told me to stop playing silly buggers and pass him a paring chisel ...

Sean,

It is clear from your post that you do not consider what Derek has posted pictures of as being paring chisels. Please post pictures then of what you *do* consider paring chisels, and describe how they are different. Educate us, please.

Jim

[Sean Richards]

Sean,

It is clear from your post that you do not consider what Derek has posted pictures of as being paring chisels. Please post pictures then of what you *do* consider paring chisels, and describe how they are different. Educate us, please.

Jim

Jim,

What I consider to be a paring chisel is a long (my longest ones have a blade of about 10" I guess) somewhat flexible chisel NOT intended to be struck with a mallet. Earlier paring chisels especially in the smaller sizes were not necessarily bevel edged. Intended usage is for paring i.e. finishing off joints etc.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Sean

Many vintage paring chisels had square sides (like a firmer, just much thinner).

There is no difference between a paring chisel with a long blade and a short handle, and a shorter blade with a long handle. The length adds to control, the longer thinner blade of the vintage chisel offers lightness, but the heavier blade of the Japanese slick offers more power. It is interesting that Jim Kingshott, schooled in the British cabinetmaking tradition, came to prefer the Japanese chisels (and slicks).

What I am saying it that there is no right or wrong here, just preferences. That is why I presented three quite different types of chisels, all of which may be used to pare joints.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Cherubini]

Jim,

What I consider to be a paring chisel is a long (my longest ones have a blade of about 10" I guess) somewhat flexible chisel NOT intended to be struck with a mallet. Earlier paring chisels especially in the smaller sizes were not necessarily bevel edged. Intended usage is for paring i.e. finishing off joints etc.

Tho some of my dearest friends are crusty Yorkshiremen, but they CAN be annoying as woodworkers. In the Seaton chest (1797) both paring chisels and firming chisels are listed in the inventory. They are identical tools and may well have been in the 18th c. So let's forget the nonsense that English craftsmen have always had specialty paring chisels, easily distinguished from everything else.

The super long paring tools of the 19th c may have been "lets increase our market share by convincing woodworkers they need every blessed thing we make" tools (e.g. swan neck chisel).

I like THIN chisels (like Dave's) for paring and prefer wide. I would start with the thinnest chisel you can find over 1" wide. I would seriously consider a carving tool and possibly an alongee like those made by Henry Taylor. Not to start a fight, but I tend to pare like I carve and find (in both instances) a slightly rounded back is advantangeous.

I guess I think paring is a skill, not a tool.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Adam - is paring chisels something you'll discuss in 18th century tricks of the trade?

[Sean Richards]

Tho some of my dearest friends are crusty Yorkshiremen, but they CAN be annoying as woodworkers. In the Seaton chest (1797) both paring chisels and firming chisels are listed in the inventory. They are identical tools and may well have been in the 18th c. So let's forget the nonsense that English craftsmen have always had specialty paring chisels, easily distinguished from everything else.

The super long paring tools of the 19th c may have been "lets increase our market share by convincing woodworkers they need every blessed thing we make" tools (e.g. swan neck chisel).

I like THIN chisels (like Dave's) for paring and prefer wide. I would start with the thinnest chisel you can find over 1" wide. I would seriously consider a carving tool and possibly an alongee like those made by Henry Taylor. Not to start a fight, but I tend to pare like I carve and find (in both instances) a slightly rounded back is advantangeous.

I guess I think paring is a skill, not a tool.

Hi Adam,

All fair comments - all I was pointing out was that if you were in a pattern shop (and that is based on my experience) in the English speaking world any time in the last 150 years (I guess) what they would call a paring chisel is "a long somewhat flexible chisel NOT intended to be struck with a mallet." And yes skill trumps tools any time

[Sean Richards]

There is no difference between a paring chisel with a long blade and a short handle, and a shorter blade with a long handle.
Derek

Here I would have to disagree

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Sean

Care to expand on your conclusion? :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Adam Cherubini]

Yep- That was something I wanted to demo. Not sure it rises to a tip but it may be a trick. Not sure if I included them or no, but I have a couple pics of 18th c drawer sides- pretty clearly no paring took place. My sense is that is where most modern guys DO pare, so I'll probably talk about that.

The idea behind the tips and tricks was to present 18th c woodwork from a fairly well grounded/documented perspective and draw the distinctions between modern work and 18th c work. I'll talk about stuff I do, but I'll try pretty hard to separate what I do from what we have evidence for. It's a cool talk. But if you can only go to one, go to the moldings talk.

I'm looking forward to seeing you Chuck

Adam

[Adam Cherubini]

Sorry if my comments were too emphatic Sean :(

[Sean Richards]

Sorry if my comments were too emphatic Sean :(

Not at all - always open to other peoples opinions especially when they come backed up with experience :)

[John Coloccia]

You can pare with any chisel, and chop with any chisel, within the limits of what the physical constraints of the metal will allow. When you talk about a WESTERN paring chisel, though, you're talking about a chisel with a LONG, thin blade. That's the traditional western paring chisel. Yes, there is a huge difference between that style of chisel and other chisels, including shorter Japanese paring chisels. It has to do with how you hold the chisel, how you use it, etc. Forget about the word "paring". The term "paring chisel" is traditionally meant to apply to a chisel with a long, thin blade and comfortable handle. Whether or not you pare with it, chop with it, or pare with something else is beside the point. It's just a label. I make mortises with my Lie-Neilsen bench chisels...and I've made mortises with a sharpened screwdriver. If I asked you for a mortise chisel and you handed my a sharpened screwdriver, you might be looking for a new job, or at least get stuck in a corner with a dunce hat and a laptop to lookup what a mortise chisel refers to.

The long paring chisel allows you to brace the chisel against your body, hold the tip with your other hand and pare straight down very accurately. Ditto for paring horizontally. Just because a short chisel cuts well doesn't mean it behaves the same. Personally, I like ALL the chisels, so it's kind of pointless to worry about which are better and which are used for what purpose. Generally, though, it's a good thing to at least agree on traditional terminology so we all know what we're talking about.

For the record, a sharpened screwdriver makes a FANTASTIC mortise chisel, but I'd never call it that.

[Sean Richards]

Hi Sean

Care to expand on your conclusion? :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Based on personal experience I don't agree that a long thin bladed somewhat flexible patternmakers paring chisel has the same characteristics in use as a long handled somewhat short and definitely stiff bladed Japanese slick.

[Mel Fulks]

None of my old chisels are paring type so I find this thick and thin feature interesting . Do we know that the old ones are thin to flex and save weight or were they just saving steel on the longer chisels ? I have noticed that some the old wide chisels have a steel cutting edge welded on , where the narrow ones of same period are one piece,that seems to be cost based.

[Matt Radtke]

It is my understanding. . .

A long blade is not required for a chisel to be labelled a paring chisel, it just has to be long period. The length was used to involve your shoulder with the pushing motion. The idea of of a long bladed chisel has to do with pattern making trade and is a relatively new invention.

This is now the end of my understanding.

[Peter Pedisich]

My favorite chisel is as Adam has described... 2" wide and from just under 1/8" thk right after the bevel to just over 1/8" near the shoulder, it gets sharper than any of my other edge tools. Great for fine-tuning tenon cheeks and half-lap joinery. I'm just a little frustrated with edge chipping. logo says TOGA - ENGLAND.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--41NhByI5CM/UHTZVSWeOLI/AAAAAAAABSM/WkQV8f-qyLw/s640/IMG_7310.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g1iKXvIRNAY/UHTZUjW5svI/AAAAAAAABSM/V_mALDIri0k/s640/IMG_7312.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wVDL33R3jvc/UHTZVMFI8kI/AAAAAAAABSM/7r-h7uEfhvI/s640/IMG_7313.JPG

[Ray Bohn]

I guess I think paring is a skill, not a tool.

Can anyone recommend a text or DVD that does a good job of covering paring techniques?

Thanks,

Ray

[Sean Richards]

My favorite chisel is as Adam has described... 2" wide and from just under 1/8" thk right after the bevel to just over 1/8" near the shoulder, it gets sharper than any of my other edge tools. Great for fine-tuning tenon cheeks and half-lap joinery. I'm just a little frustrated with edge chipping. logo says TOGA - ENGLAND.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--41NhByI5CM/UHTZVSWeOLI/AAAAAAAABSM/WkQV8f-qyLw/s640/IMG_7310.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g1iKXvIRNAY/UHTZUjW5svI/AAAAAAAABSM/V_mALDIri0k/s640/IMG_7312.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wVDL33R3jvc/UHTZVMFI8kI/AAAAAAAABSM/7r-h7uEfhvI/s640/IMG_7313.JPG

Hi Peter - that is a nice chisel!

[Mark Baldwin III]

Can anyone recommend a text or DVD that does a good job of covering paring techniques?

Thanks,

Ray

I have the David Charlesworth "Chisel Techniques for Precision Joinery". Paring is just a small part of what he talks about, but it's a good DVD to have.

[Charlie Stanford]

Like to get a Paring Chisel or two. What would be the best all round size to start with?
What is your favorite brand?

Know this - paring chisels are not ground at 30*. If your takeaway from this thread is anything it is this fact. 20* or less is more like it. You don't need edge retention. You need the woodworking equivalent of a dermatone. You need to be able to remove tissue and you don't need it sliding up a 30* ramp. If you have to touch up after a few strokes so be it. You shouldn't need to take that many strokes with a paring chisel anyway - a point often lost on those with less than a full understanding of the craft. A paring chisel is what comes out of the toolchest to deliver the payoff pitch when the count is full. If you need to hog away waste to get close to the line then use, by comparison, a blunter instrument, a butt or firmer ground at 30* or even higher.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Charles

Yes, traditionally Western paring chisels are ground at 20 degrees - if hollow ground they could/should be honed at this angle as well ... yes/no?

There is so much grey area here: do you grind at 20 and hone at 25? If so, what is the different with a chisel ground and honed at 25 degrees? After all, the low primary bevel does not mean much here - it is not a mortice chisel seeking easy entry for depth when chopping.

My Japanese slicks (paring chisels) are flat ground and honed at 25 degrees. The Japanese bench chisels are at 30 degrees.

It was the 30 degrees of the Japanese bench chisels that reinforces the message that you grind/hone a bevel for the situation/conditions. The 30 degree Japanese bench chisels manage to get extremely sharp. Indeed, sharper than the Berg paring chisels I owned at one time, which were ground and honed at desired 20 degrees.

On todays market there are few new paring chisels that I would feel comfortable with at 20 degrees. Certainly nothing in A2 (which is risky below 30 degrees). Also, nothing Japanese (the steel is too brittle). M2 is too coarse to get sharp enough. A 20 degree O1 bevel would last 3 seconds on Australian hardwood. It will be interesting when Lee Valley produce paring chisels in PM-V11 as this can comfortably be honed at 20 degrees. Maybe then we will be talking 20 degrees again.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stuart Tierney]

On todays market there are few new paring chisels that I would feel comfortable with at 20 degrees. Certainly nothing in A2 (which is risky below 30 degrees). Also, nothing Japanese (the steel is too brittle). M2 is too coarse to get sharp enough. A 20 degree O1 bevel would last 3 seconds on Australian hardwood. It will be interesting when Lee Valley produce paring chisels in PM-V11 as this can comfortably be honed at 20 degrees. Maybe then we will be talking 20 degrees again.

Regards from Perth

Derek


Derek,

Good Japanese white steel will support a 20° bevel without too many problems. I know few will try it because of the reputation of 'brittle' Japanese steel, but after what I've seen good white steel put up with and how resilient it actually is, the @20° bevel I've seen used routinely isn't such a big ask. As to what the exact angle is I can't say, but a chisel that's only 1/8" thick at the pointy end, about 1" wide and showing a half postage stamp of bevel isn't exactly a blunt instrument.

I'll see how low the bevel has actually been taken down and used successfully to by a few of the folks I know here to confirm, but 20° isn't out of the ordinary on a paring chisel.

Not that it matters, the 13" long chisels I have here apparently aren't paring chisels at all so what does it matter what angle the bevel is set at?

Stu.

[David Weaver]

White II works fine in anything at 20 degrees that any vintage american steel would. It feels an awful lot like what the best vintage american steels did when you find an older chisel that's a little hard.

There's just no great reason to do it, because the chisels pare fine at 25 degrees, and you can pare pine in one stroke and beech the next and not have to baby them.

I would set them somewhere between 20 and 25 degrees if most of my paring was in softwoods, though.

[Chris Griggs]

I've been finding a need for some long chisels to hog out waste often (but not always) in recessed areas - such as dados. I have one old fairly long 3/8" not bevel edged (firmer? ...I feel like that word mean different things to different folks...) chisel that I use for this but would like to get some more in other sizes. I guess this isn't paring in the sense that it often isn't fine work (though sometimes it is), but it is something that is done with hand and sometimes arm and shoulder power. What do you guys recommend for this type of work. I know they make crank necks for this kind of thing but regular straight chisels appeal to me more, as I'm not sure how useful I would find crank necks.

Would some type of long thin paring chisel (e.g. Henry Taylors work for this? I'm under the impression that those might be too light duty for this kind of thing? Or should I just look for old long "firmer" chisels? Are there any newly made chisels of this type (long but not super thin)? Thoughts?

[David Weaver]

Seems like a lot of those older straight sided long firmers are pretty cheap. When i first started, I found a bunch of really good chisels like that (lots of PS&W, etc) in the $15 each range, not as heavy as the millwright kind of chisels, but long flat sided socket firmers.

Like what you already have. They are the kind of chisels that sell for $10 on ebay when someone puts them up for a straight auction, but a lot of the delusional retail listers on ebay will think they're worth $50 each.

[Jonathan McCullough]

There was an episode of the Woodwright's Shop where Roy Underhill demonstrated the use of a real paring chisel. Sadly, I don't recall which episode or I'd provide a link, but I hope someone might remember and respond here.

A paring chisel is long and thin, maybe 14 - 18 inches plus the handle. The length provides added accuracy; just as a protractor with a larger radius will allow finer gradations, a longer chisel allows for more accurate paring where the edge meets the work. A paring chisel is thin, allowing it to flex during use. Flexing the handle slightly causes the edge to progress very minute distances, allowing the user to pare waste very accurately without overshooting. A paring chisel is honed to about 17º - 23º to allow it to take very fine shavings, usually in end grain. A paring chisel benefits from frequent stropping. It is delicate, never used with a mallet, and it is never used to lever out waste. Paring chisels made of traditional tool steels are sufficient for their intended purposes: very small, fine, discreet paring for final fitting of joints in all wood types, whether it is easily-crushed soft pine or Australian hardwoods, but I would posit that edge retention against titanium is not the sine qua non of whether a tool is useful or not.

I used a paring chisel in middle school wood shop in the U.K. almost thirty years ago and have been looking for one like it ever since. They are wonderful to use. Almost all of the offerings I've seen would not be considered true paring chisels. They're usually too short and/or too thick. In cross-section, the chisel I used was like a firmer chisel, maybe with slightly eased edges like a trapezoid to get into mortise corners. Another perfectly good shape would be half-round, like the Ashley Iles dovetail chisels, which resemble paring chisels in many respects, and fine tools for dovetail work, but are not true paring chisels. A paring chisel could have beveled edges, but at that length, I think a sharp edge would be impractical.

I've been thinking about getting some flat stock O-1 or drill rod and making my own.

[Jim Koepke]

I've been finding a need for some long chisels to hog out waste often (but not always) in recessed areas - such as dados. I have one old fairly long 3/8" not bevel edged (firmer? ...I feel like that word mean different things to different folks...) chisel that I use for this but would like to get some more in other sizes. I guess this isn't paring in the sense that it often isn't fine work (though sometimes it is), but it is something that is done with hand and sometimes arm and shoulder power. What do you guys recommend for this type of work. I know they make crank necks for this kind of thing but regular straight chisels appeal to me more, as I'm not sure how useful I would find crank necks.

Would some type of long thin paring chisel (e.g. Henry Taylors work for this? I'm under the impression that those might be too light duty for this kind of thing? Or should I just look for old long "firmer" chisels? Are there any newly made chisels of this type (long but not super thin)? Thoughts?

For this kind of work, my preference is for a chisel slightly narrower than the dado. This is to avoid chipping the edges of the dado. The crank necked chisels do not appeal to me either in this situation. For taking a shaving off the floor of a dado, my chisels are used bevel down.

jtk

[Jack Curtis]

For this kind of work, my preference is for a chisel slightly narrower than the dado. This is to avoid chipping the edges of the dado. The crank necked chisels do not appeal to me either in this situation. For taking a shaving off the floor of a dado, my chisels are used bevel down.

Same here, bevel down is highly recommended, for other chisels, too, in a potential tear out situation.

[Chris Griggs]

Seems like a lot of those older straight sided long firmers are pretty cheap. When i first started, I found a bunch of really good chisels like that (lots of PS&W, etc) in the $15 each range, not as heavy as the millwright kind of chisels, but long flat sided socket firmers.

Like what you already have. They are the kind of chisels that sell for $10 on ebay when someone puts them up for a straight auction, but a lot of the delusional retail listers on ebay will think they're worth $50 each.

Yeah that sounds like what I have. Its a nice size... long and light weight but sturdy too... good for fine fitting and also for hogging out material


For this kind of work, my preference is for a chisel slightly narrower than the dado. This is to avoid chipping the edges of the dado. The crank necked chisels do not appeal to me either in this situation. For taking a shaving off the floor of a dado, my chisels are used bevel down.

jtk

I'll often work bevel down too. Where the long chisel appeals to me is when I want to hog out cross grain waste. I find its easier to take out big long chucks of material cross grain with the bevel up so that the chisel back is in line with the cut and the cutting kinda gets under the material more... or maybe its just that in that position all the force is going forward vs down-&-forward as when using bevel down. In any case, it sounds like the best and least expensive solution would be to find some more of the old long flat sided socket chisels. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get a true paring chisel too, I pretty much use bench chisels for fitting and paring, and it sounds like I might be missing out on something pretty useful. This has been a really informative thread for me so far.

[Charlie Stanford]

Hi Charles

Yes, traditionally Western paring chisels are ground at 20 degrees - if hollow ground they could/should be honed at this angle as well ... yes/no?

There is so much grey area here: do you grind at 20 and hone at 25? If so, what is the different with a chisel ground and honed at 25 degrees? After all, the low primary bevel does not mean much here - it is not a mortice chisel seeking easy entry for depth when chopping.

My Japanese slicks (paring chisels) are flat ground and honed at 25 degrees. The Japanese bench chisels are at 30 degrees.

It was the 30 degrees of the Japanese bench chisels that reinforces the message that you grind/hone a bevel for the situation/conditions. The 30 degree Japanese bench chisels manage to get extremely sharp. Indeed, sharper than the Berg paring chisels I owned at one time, which were ground and honed at desired 20 degrees.

On todays market there are few new paring chisels that I would feel comfortable with at 20 degrees. Certainly nothing in A2 (which is risky below 30 degrees). Also, nothing Japanese (the steel is too brittle). M2 is too coarse to get sharp enough. A 20 degree O1 bevel would last 3 seconds on Australian hardwood. It will be interesting when Lee Valley produce paring chisels in PM-V11 as this can comfortably be honed at 20 degrees. Maybe then we will be talking 20 degrees again.

Regards from Perth

Derek


I could not possibly care less about Japanese woodworking gear. Ditto A2, D2, M2, powdered metal, and all that stuff.

Traditional high carbon steel Western paring chisels do not need secondaries/microbevels, etc. etc. Hone on the grinding angle, flat or hollow doesn't really matter. I've pared hard tropical woods and didn't change my setup one iota. I have no idea how long the edge lasted. If it seemed dull, I honed. Paring a joint is a two or three stroke process, a few seconds at most, so your estimate of "3 seconds" sounds about right so no big deal as far as I'm concerned. Paring is one thing. Chiselling quite another.

No gray areas as far as I'm concerned. Hone it in the teens or just by eye - a noticeably longer bevel than that seen on a regular bench firmer ground at 25* will put the blade somewhere in the mid to upper teens, maybe lower. Lower is fine. Lower cuts nice.

[Sean Richards]

Hi Charles

Yes, traditionally Western paring chisels are ground at 20 degrees - if hollow ground they could/should be honed at this angle as well ... yes/no?

There is so much grey area here: do you grind at 20 and hone at 25? If so, what is the different with a chisel ground and honed at 25 degrees? After all, the low primary bevel does not mean much here - it is not a mortice chisel seeking easy entry for depth when chopping.

My Japanese slicks (paring chisels) are flat ground and honed at 25 degrees. The Japanese bench chisels are at 30 degrees.

It was the 30 degrees of the Japanese bench chisels that reinforces the message that you grind/hone a bevel for the situation/conditions. The 30 degree Japanese bench chisels manage to get extremely sharp. Indeed, sharper than the Berg paring chisels I owned at one time, which were ground and honed at desired 20 degrees.

On todays market there are few new paring chisels that I would feel comfortable with at 20 degrees. Certainly nothing in A2 (which is risky below 30 degrees). Also, nothing Japanese (the steel is too brittle). M2 is too coarse to get sharp enough. A 20 degree O1 bevel would last 3 seconds on Australian hardwood. It will be interesting when Lee Valley produce paring chisels in PM-V11 as this can comfortably be honed at 20 degrees. Maybe then we will be talking 20 degrees again.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek I am mildly curious as to what is your purpose in trying to complicate a very simple thing i.e. sharpening a chisel

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Sean

Partly I was just stirring up Charles :)

There is, nevertheless, the fact that the steels used in tools, especially chisels, have changed over the past 100 years. They have been introduced for different reasons: durability, ease of manufacture, cost .. Unlike vintage HCS (and O1) they are sharpened differently for optimum use. The long and short of this is that you cannot bevel some of them at 20 degrees as you would a HCS blade. Hope that was not too technical :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Owen]

Henry Taylor makes a set of straight-edged firmer chisels (around 5" - 6" blades), as well as some socket firmer timber-framing chisels (around 8" - 9" blades). Both are considerably thicker than your typical paring chisel, especially the timber framing chisels.

The crank necks are useful for long grooves or dados...it you don't do any long (more than 6" to 8" long) grooving/dado work, then they are probably of little use for you. HT makes both long (around 8" - 9" blades) and short bladed (around 5" blades) crank-neck paring chisels.

If you are a fan of HT chisels, some of those may be of interest to you.

Traditional Woodworker and The Best Things both carry them....

I really like the timber framing chisels for removing lots of wood quickly.