Hollows and Rounds- Buy or build?

[Mike Allen1010]

I just finished reading Matt Bickford's book and am interested in trying to create some larger moldings for casework. I'm wondering what the best way would be to go about acquiring a half set of Hollows and rounds. Given the cost and wait time, buying new tools from current builders like Matt isn't really an option for me.

I live in Southern California and haven't had much luck in finding decent, straight molding planes in the wild. I'm reluctant to buy molding planes on the mega-auction site because I don't know enough to tell if they would be good users from the picture/descriptions. I guess I could confidently buy from a reputable tool dealer like Patrick Leach or The Best Things, but it seems like the price is a little steep for me ~$600-800?

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to build usable hollows and rounds - I see where I can buy the iron blanks from Lee Nielsen but would have to grind the profile. I'm not much of a metal worker and I guess I would have to shape a wheel on my power grinder to get round profiles? -- not really sure how to do that. I would also have to buy the appropriate straight grain, dry stocks for the plane bodies.

Unlike my other shop built saws and planes, I'm not really interested in the building experience, I just want usable tools. So I guess in a nutshell my question is: Given the build time, cost of materials and likelihood of success, would it be better to try and build a half set of holes and rounds or just bite the bullet and buy them from a reputable dealer?

Any advice from the plane builders out there and those who hand cut their own moldings is very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Jim Matthews]

Larry Williams published a video available through Lie Nielsen that covers this.

It's not complicated, but does require a flex-shaft grinding tool and small burrs.
If it was my money, I would buy solid bodies and refit them with new iron as needed.

You would be surprised at how well some of the old iron will cut, tuned up.

Note - in Matt Bickford's class setting, he goes to great length explaining the sharpening process.
Will he be offering any classes near you, this year?

[Zach Dillinger]

Well, my point of view on this is that you need not buy a whole half set. Buy a few pairs in sizes that you will use, or think you will use, before worrying about plunking down cash for all those planes. If you find that you need more sizes, then by all means buy more, but if you never need them, so be it. At least you can get started.

I have most of a half set of Gabriels that I've used for a year or so (the missing sizes, as well as the rest of a full set of 18 pairs, are on the way courtesy of Patrick Leach). These replaced a harlequin half set of Ohio Tool, Sandusky, etc. H and Rs. I like having that many sizes for my own piece of mind, but if I was just getting started, I'd buy pairs in the 4, 6 and 8 sizes.

[Jeff Heath]

Larry William's DVD on this subject should be considered "required viewing" if you're interested in finding out more about making your own set of H's & R's. Keep in mind that you will need specialty tools like planemaker's floats, metal grinder with a couple different profiles, a good belt sander/grinder, special sized mortising chisel or grind your own, a quality torch and a place to heat treat tool steel, etc......

I made my own set in Cherry, and they turned out so well that a customer of mine purchased them from me. Idiot that I am, now I have to do it again.

Once you watch the DVD, only you will be able to determine if you think you have the skill set and the patience to make them yourself. I can guarantee you this, though. If you make them yourself, the level of personal pride in using tools you make is immense, and they will most likely be better quality users than most of the 200 year old wooden planes I come across in my travels. Most of the moulding planes I have come across in my many years of woodworking are trainwrecks that require a lot of work to get them working properly. The really pristine sets usually bring top dollar from the "collector's".

I had fun making them, and the achievement has spurred me on to making planes for sale, professionally.

Jeff

[David Weaver]

buy larry's DVD, watch it, and then make a decision. It pretty much answers any question you're going to have about making planes.

If you have a bence vise (like a machinist vise) and a hacksaw, you can make the irons pretty easily out of readily available O1 stock.

I personally would suggest making them, you know what you have.

You can buy the cone stones mentioned above and use them in a lathe, or you can use another method if you'd like to not buy a flex shave grinder. Before you get to that step, you can do your shaping with files and sandpaper in unhardened metal easily, and keeping the iron in shape, you can choose to do that incrementally if you're using only stones.

The planes I have bought have probably taken me half as much time to prepare as it takes to make an entire new plane.

I can give you the number of a guy who sells beech (so can a lot of other people, same guy) if you watch the video and decide you want to make the planes. It costs money no matter what, but making them will minimize the money outlay if you can stand to part with the maker's tools when you're done.

[David Turner]

Larry Williams' DVD is excellent but there is also Tod Herrli's DVD on making side escapement planes. Tod and Larry differ in their approach and in some of the techniques. Both will get you started toward success.

I have a half set of Ohio Tool H & R's that I amassed a pair at a time but I will still be building my own half set plus this winter. I took a 2 day class with Tod Herrli and learned of lot of secrets not shown in either of the DVD's.

I say build your own and learn how to tune them.

David Turner
Plymouth, MI.

[Jim Matthews]

FYI - If you're not inclined to buy the DVD, Larry does recommend British made antique planes if you intend to replace the irons.

The fit, finish, and performance of the British stuff exceeds most US made planes.
I bought a cabinet maker's set, made mostly by Peugeot and sons, and the quality of the workmanship is excellent.

The irons are intact, fairly soft and therefore easy to shape and sharpen.
I cut mostly Poplar for moldings, so the blades are adequate.

I strongly recommend taking a course with Matt Bickford, if possible.
You'll learn more in two days than in a year, on your own.

[Sean Richards]

... Unlike my other shop built saws and planes, I'm not really interested in the building experience, I just want usable tools ...
Mike

Mike I think you answered your own question - work out what you need to get started and then talk to Pat Leach or Lee Richmond

[Sean Richards]

Mike I think you answered your own question - work out what you need to get started and then talk to Pat Leach or Lee Richmond

And Josh Clark would be a pretty good option as well

[Trevor Walsh]

I think in your position, where the building of the tools doesn't spark drooling and lust you might consider buying two pairs, say 8 and 12 or something of that class which would allow you to do a lot of the big mouldings you mention without sinking many hundreds into the tools.

[Dale Cruea]

Mike,
I too was wondering about building H-R planes.
I purchased the DVD from LN.
If you like I will loan you the DVD.
It is a nice video about 3 hours of H-R plane making and related work to the planes.
He dose not leave much out about plane making in this video.
I think Larry uses more tools than needed however you will need a .1" chisel for the mouth.
Send me a PM if you would like to borrow the DVD for awhile.