View Full Version : Newbie looking to purchase CNC router
Ernie Martinez
10-03-2012, 7:27 PM
I need to buy a CNC router but don't know anything about the manufacturers. I'm looking for a small bench top model that I can route small signs (8" x 11").
A little larger is fine, but I'd rather not go the Chinese route, I'v seen all the different models on Ebay and seems to me that support would be nill. I would prefer a US made machine. Obviously price is a factor as well.
Thanks
Bob Savage
10-04-2012, 11:11 AM
You'll get a number of responses but take a look at Camaster. U.S. made.
Jerome Stanek
10-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Shopbot, Camaster, Rockler Shark, and lower end would be Carvewright. Check out the forums for each one Great support for Shopbot and Camaster.
Bruce Page
10-04-2012, 11:53 AM
There's some good info in this thread: Affordable CNC... (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?132600-Affordable-CNC) It’s a couple of years old so some of the info is dated.
George Carlson
10-04-2012, 2:21 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to throw the Chinese machines under the bus. I have a Chinese 6040 unit. I did replace the electronics with a stepper driver from Gecko, but the only reason I did that was to provide a bit more flexibility in the I/O. My 6040 unit uses high grade linear bearings and ball lead-screws and it has a water cooled spindle (no sawdust in the motor) with digital VFD drive. The frame is made from 5/8" and thicker aluminum jig plate. Among other things, I use it to mill circuit boards where I need accuracy better than 0.002", and it does it easily. You would have no problem milling two-color plastic.
As an example, the Shark uses a plastic frame and cheap acme leadscrews. Many of the other units use belts or chains which are not precise and have lost motion.
There's not much to the support issue other than the fact that whatever you buy, you will need to learn as much about it as you can. The more generic build-it-yourself and the Chinese machines, will require a good beit of learning on your part. But, you will know all about the machine and you should be able to mantain it yourself without having to call a factory for parts. If your machine uses Mach3 to drive it, you will have a huge user support resource you can tap into.
Ernie Martinez
10-04-2012, 4:33 PM
Any thoughts on the Laguna Tools IQ benchtop?
james mcgrew
10-04-2012, 7:25 PM
the laguna benchtop shown in atlanta is a chinese knock of of the CAMaster stinger made in cartersville GA.
Ernie Martinez
10-05-2012, 10:20 AM
For my immediate needs I really don't need much table area and I already own a Smithy Granite 1340 Drill/Mill/Lathe. I was considering upgrading it to flashcut CNC. I just spoke with Flashcut and they can import DXF files which I can export from Corel. I was just looking for some feedback from those familiar with Flashcut.
All I'm trying to do is simple routing and cutting of small signs (8" x 11") and my usual metal work.
Thanks
james mcgrew
10-05-2012, 10:33 AM
For my immediate needs I really don't need much table area and I already own a Smithy Granite 1340 Drill/Mill/Lathe. I was considering upgrading it to flashcut CNC. I just spoke with Flashcut and they can import DXF files which I can export from Corel. I was just looking for some feedback from those familiar with Flashcut.
All I'm trying to do is simple routing and cutting of small signs (8" x 11") and my usual metal work.
Thanks
Correct me if i am wrong, yet isn't Flashcut a control program,, not a machine?
Ernie Martinez
10-05-2012, 10:42 AM
Flashcut makes a complete CNC retrofit kit for Benchtop mills, which includes the motors, controller and software.
james mcgrew
10-05-2012, 10:52 AM
i would love to have a mill!!
Keith Outten
10-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Jim,
Purchase the Grizzly Woodworkers Mill and write a review. Over the years not one person that I know of has bought this machine and let us know about it here at The Creek. I would love to know how well it performs. I would buy one but I'm poor :)
Ernie, another option for you is to buy a rotary engraving machine if you only want to machine small plaques. Its not a router but it has some advantages over a router for small jobs.
.
George Carlson
10-05-2012, 1:27 PM
Jim,
Purchase the Grizzly Woodworkers Mill and write a review. Over the years not one person that I know of has bought this machine and let us know about it here at The Creek. I would love to know how well it performs. I would buy one but I'm poor :)
.
If you mean the G9959, they no longer sell it. It was too light and flimsy for metalworking and not enough travel to be useful for woodworking.
Ernie Martinez
10-05-2012, 1:46 PM
Thanks, Looks like I'm back to a router, since my Smithy's xy travel is TOO restrictive for any thing I need to do. I'm leaning towards the Laguna IQ.
Curt Harms
10-06-2012, 8:03 AM
Thanks, Looks like I'm back to a router, since my Smithy's xy travel is TOO restrictive for any thing I need to do. I'm leaning towards the Laguna IQ.
I have no first hand experience but there are threads where Laguna's after-sale support has been ....... spotty.
james mcgrew
10-06-2012, 11:41 PM
if the iq is an option, then a goood look at a stinger is a must
Ernie Martinez
10-07-2012, 8:19 AM
I've looked at the stinger, and I like what I see, but by the time I add all the options to make it equivalent to the IQ, its over $2000 more expensive.
Jim Underwood
10-07-2012, 10:08 AM
For the better support, it might be worth it. Not much good to have a cheaper machine that you can't do anything with... The company I work for pays nearly that much per year for support for just ONE software package... just sayin...
james mcgrew
10-07-2012, 10:13 AM
There is a very good reason for that,, just join and ask the owners
www.camheads.org (http://www.camheads.org)
Ernie Martinez
10-08-2012, 12:21 AM
I appreciate everyones opinions, but what I'm not getting is facts. I've been reading this forum and the camheads forums for days now. The Camaster folks seem to be very knowledgeable about their machines but seem to have blinders on with respect to the other brands. I've had a few people mention customer support issues, but on a different forum I saw several examples of excellent service.
What would be more helpful to me would be less Chevy vs Ford comparisons and more along the lines of side by side feature comparisons to back up the claims made that Laguna is inferior and Camaster superior.
My side by side comparison has the Laguna ahead in all respects from a value perspective e.g.
Standard Laguna features
Water cooled Spindel vs Router
100 lbs heavier solid welded frame
auto zero touch pad
Ball screws on 3 axis
Dedicated Controller vs MS Windows based software ( this may not be that important) But I like the idea of no computer in shop room, and all the baggage associated with Windows. (I'm an EE/software engineer for over 30 years). And I'm not too concerned about the Austrian controller manufacturer going out of business
http://www.br-automation.com/cps/rde/xchg/br-automation_com/hs.xsl/cookies_allowed.htm?caller=8299_ENG_HTML.htm
If I go to the Camaster website I can't even get a simple explanation of the accessories. There is precious little information to go on.
I've had several people respond with opinions and China bashing, but nothing that helps me make a decision. The only thing that I've been able to conclude is that Camaster people are passionate about their machines. I really dont care if a solid hunk of Steel comes from China, Laguna claims they are assembled and tested here in the US thats all fine with me. Sure I'd love to buy a 100% made in USA machine , I bought an Epilog Laser over a Trotec partly because of that. But at the end of the day, value wins out, and so far no one has given me any reason to think that the Camaster provides more value. I'm not trying to trash Camaster, I'm sure its a great machine, but I need more than Laguna is Chinese junk and a Stinger is better.
I don't see many forums with people posting their issues with the Laguna machines, but that just means to me the following:
1. No one owns Laguna CNC machines
2. People don't really have many problems which negate the need for a forum
3. Laguna does a good job of supporting their machines off line.
I've come across another thread where another newbie asked basically the same question and he seemed to have come to the same conclusion as I did, whereas the experts on the forum weren't even aware of the current Laguna IQ product. Rather, the thread descended into a flame session, filled with everything but information to help the newbie.
If anyone has ANY real world experience with the Laguna IQ HHC or Pro, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks
Keith Outten
10-08-2012, 5:11 AM
Ernie,
Your right, there is little information available about the Laguna IQ Pro machine here. Laguna has not been promoting this machine as far as I know but it may be an excellent value. I did discuss this very machine with a Laguna Rep at IWF and suggested that they offer a promotion for this very model here at The Creek, stand by for more information :)
I doubt you will find anyone who has owned both a CAMaster and a Laguna CNC Machine that could provide hands on information. As always you have to weed through the comments from different camps to determine for yourself which machine will suit your needs but all of the current manufacturers are offering some nice models. The brand fans are always quick to yell about how much they love their machines, I'm a bit guilty of that myself. I have owned a ShopBot and a CAMaster, both were excellent values however these days I have learned how valuable the welded frames are to the machine performance.
.
Bob Reda
10-08-2012, 7:14 AM
Your thoughts on not needing a forum is not adequate. A forum is a valuable tool, no matter which one you chose. If you are not familiar with cnc machines the learning curve, even with todays software is a nice climb. There are always problems that arise after the purchase. These problems are always while in the middle of a job and on weekends. With the forum, you always have a chance to get an answer.. You will also be surprised about how much you learn about your machine thorugh the forums. So i would put a support forum up there in my list of have to haves before I buy a $20.000 machine.
Bob
james mcgrew
10-08-2012, 7:23 AM
there is one or two that have gone from the chinese to the camaster, i looked extensivly at the 1390 and by some form of intervention a used camaster came up and this is where i went,, kieth is right most any one is still pretty amazed we can run these things and are very brand loyal,, the IQ is an updated model of the chinese 60-90 and it will work,, the main items of note between the two is this,,
IQ Mach three controler----- camaster- wincnc , wincnc is an indrustrial controller with a dughter board and is not dependant on the computers motherboard,,,,, this means a tech from camaster can get on your screen while your machine is running and diagnose, teach or you can design whil machine is running,, you cannot do this with Mach 3,, mach three is stuck in 32 bit,, as time goes on and all computers go to 64 you will have to keep 32 bit motherboards around.
frame,, the camaster frame is stress welded relived and cnc ground flat at the table, the iq is good enough but i prefer my Harley over a honda, which the harley and is build are what i think of when i look at my camaster.
spindles, the iq uses a watercooled spindle, reason the bearings are not as heat tolerant as an italian spindle wiht ceramic bearings, you can put far stronger spindles on a camaster, if needed,, with the watercooled you gotta be aware of the fishtank pump.
the iq wll work,, so will the camaster,,,, and there are plenty of MACH three owners here,,, so heres a good litmus test, today i want you to go to the mach three website and call support, you will not only find they do not talk on the phone but that the chinese versions of mach three are bootleg
there is a long learning curve for some this is both software and machine, throw all woodworking terms out the window, a whole new language awaits,,, this is the value in a good machine+good support, (es i am biased, i am a commercial end user, time is money here) the coupling of suport for machine and software and support have lead to an awful lot of satisfied camhead stinger or camaster owners..
Ernie Martinez
10-08-2012, 9:43 AM
Bob, I didn't say that I didn't need a forum. I am a member of the Engravers forum and it is an invaluable resource for me.
Keith Outten
10-08-2012, 12:57 PM
I'm a big fan of Forums myself :)
I also belong to the Engravers Forum (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?8-Engravers-Forum).
Wincnc is good stuff.
.
Ariel Echevarria
10-11-2012, 12:54 AM
I am in the same boat looking for a router. I like the Newing Hall 240 because its a good starting CNC router from what I can see. The sales rep sent me a quote of Approx 8-9k Im trying to negotiate all angles, Sawmill creek member, military vet, just trying to see if they will offer any kind of discount.
Mike Null
10-11-2012, 6:10 AM
Ariel
What are you wanting to do with the Newing Hall? It may not be the machine you need. There is no way this should be called a router. It is an engraver. If you have that much to spend you would be well served to look for a used laser engraver first.
Given your experience and what you want to do my guess is that this may be a machine to consider after you have established your business but not as a start-up machine.
If you have questions PM me and I'll give you my phone number.
james mcgrew
10-11-2012, 6:39 AM
this is an excellent engraver, yet if you wanted to do 3d carvings or woodwork along the lines of what is commonly shown in the gallerys with a cnc machine then you may want to look a bit larger, most all table top cnc machines will do engraving as well
Ariel Echevarria
10-11-2012, 11:12 AM
Yes its an engraver I was multi tasking when I was writing that post and looking up CNC routers and Engraving machines. Word mix up. So what I am looking for is something that I can make ADA signs, Name plates, etc.
Mark Sipes
02-12-2014, 5:51 PM
So Ariel what did you end up purchasing?
Peter Odell
02-13-2014, 7:53 AM
Take a look at Probotix I just got one and I love it
William Adams
02-13-2014, 9:13 AM
If you're willing to do some assembly, there's an opensource machine, the ShapeOko which is now on its second iteration --- while you can buy a kit from Inventables, the originial iteration of the project is fully-documented and one can source parts oneself --- still working on docs for the SO2.
It uses an aluminum extrusion called MakerSlide, so can be expanded to the sizes that's available in (up to 2M --- my machine has a 1M Y-axis).
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