Shop Made Backsaw

[Mike Allen1010]

I do about 95% of my woodworking with hand tools (both because I enjoy it and I don't really have the space/$ for stationary power tools).

I admittedly have a "bad handsaw problem". With some scrimping over time I was able to buy a backsaw from Lie Nielsen, Mark Harrell at Bad Axe and Mike Wenzloff and they are among my favorite tools.

In the course of various projects I found myself thinking that it would be "nice to have" some other size/configuration backsaw for different sawing tasks. I prefer longer and thinner saw plates than are typically used in vintage backsaws, and I couldn't really justify plunking down the $ just to hear the LOML say "Really, you needed to buy another saw?”, so I attempted building a couple shop made backsaws.

My first efforts were quite honestly disastrous! I especially struggled with correctly aligning the mortise for the saw back, the slot for the saw plate and the saw nut holes. I seemed to always end up with a bend in the saw plate, especially with plates thinner than .025” - very disappointing to invest the time and effort and end up a pretty ugly tote and a saw that wouldn't cut a straight line!

Attached are some pictures of my latest effort, an 18” x 3 ½” X .020” plate, 12 PPI crosscut (15° rake angle and 25° fleam angle, 15° gullets). I bought the slotted saw back and pre-punch saw plate from Ron Bontz here on SMC. IMHO this service, quality and price were great! The tote is Brazilian Rosewood.

Most importantly, everything fits and the plate is absolutely straight! My thanks to all the coaching I got from lots of folks here on SMC, especially Klaus and Chris Vandiver who really helped with the lambs tongue!

For me, given the time and effort it takes me to build a backsaw and my ratio of success to failure, I'm probably better off just buying from the professionals, but at least this time I ended up with a tool I can use.



All the best,

Mike


242342242346242347242348242341242345242344242343

[Adam Neat]

I think that saw looks great, I dont think it gets any better than making your own stuff, time and effort well spent.

[george wilson]

Nice handle. Did you make the back?

[Chris Griggs]

Wow Mike! Really nice. I love the contrast in the tote. I'll be really happy if the one I'm working on right now comes out half that nice.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Congrats, Mike, it's a beauty of a saw. The handle is very nicely done to say the least. Great attention to detail and flawless execution. Like others I like the use of the sap wood a lot. The hang angle seems to be just about perfect regarding the size of the saw. Well done!

Klaus

[Philip Duffy]

Mike, Good to see another of your great saws! Philip PS; have some apple wood on the way to my house. Will screen for quality to send on to you.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike

That looks first class .. pro all the way. A lot of thought went into that design, and it shows. I love the use of the sap wood (I like doing that as well), the heel of the blade, and the overall shape. Excellent!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christian Thompson]

Looks great! I have made one saw handle to replace the plastic one on an old home depot backsaw (just for the heck of it and practice). I know what you mean about not getting things lined up. It's comfortable, but a bit skewed :-).

Where did you get the split nuts? I've got an old saw I'd like to rehab one of these days but the split nuts are worn out and need to be replaced.

Thanks,
Christian

[Jim Koepke]

Looks great.


For me, given the time and effort it takes me to build a backsaw and my ratio of success to failure, I'm probably better off just buying from the professionals, but at least this time I ended up with a tool I can use.

Most likely if you build more, the time it takes will decrease and the ratio of success to failure will improve.

My wife doesn't mind me spending time in the shop as much as spending money for the shop.

jtk

[Todd Burch]

Does she have a name? Carrot top? White horn? Yellow Rose? ;)

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks for the nice comments -- they're especially meaningful coming from the incredibly talented folks here in the Cave.

George, I got the slotted brass saw back and saw plate from Ron Bontz here on SMC. I was very pleased and impressed with the quality of his work and his service!

Christian, the split nuts are from Tools for Working Wood, Ron Bontz also sells saw nuts and really cool medallions, but I had these on hand and I really like the little copper "friction washers" (I'm not sure what they're really called) they come with because you don't have to chop a square Mortice for the saw nut shank.

Admiral (sorry... waaaaay too much conditioning to let myself call you Philip), thanks for keeping an eye out for some Apple. As you saw during your visit, somehow the rusty old saws in need of tote repair hanging in the rafters just keep multiplying!

Chris, you are much too modest -- I've seen the beautiful saws you build and am very much looking forward to seeing pictures of your latest work in progress.

All the best, Mike

[Ron Bontz]

Hi Mike, Good to see the saw worked out for you. I think that 4" plate size was a good move on your part to keep the height down. I, like others, love the use of the sap wood. Makes it very distinctive. The handle is based on around the mid 1800s? Looks a lot like some I have been playing with lately. How much set did you end up using? You certainly defeated that evil brass back mortise menace. It is a wonderful feeling, is it not. All in all I think you did a very nice job. My compliments.

[Mike Allen1010]

[QUOTE=Ron Bontz;1988153] The handle is based on around the mid 1800s? Looks a lot like some I have been playing with lately. How much set did you end up using?

Ron, the handle is based on a couple different Groves backsaws from Chris Vandiver's collection (I'm not sure of the vintage) that Chris graciously sent me some pictures of. Chris does absolutely beautiful work both restoring vintage saws and building his own -- his are incredibly graceful!

Because this 18" saw is intended for larger crosscuts in both hard and soft woods I added .010" set, which is a little more than I typically use for joinery saws. If I were using it just for dry hardwoods I would go for + .007" -.008".

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, you are much too modest -- I've seen the beautiful saws you build and am very much looking forward to seeing pictures of your latest work in progress.


It's not so much modesty as it that I'm insanely self critical - most of us are our own worst critics. I've actually never made a backsaw before so I was/am uncertain about how it will turn out. I've reshaped a few handles, made a bowsaw, and made a few handles for practice over the past year, but I've never had to kerf or let in the handle before - that's whats giving me fits. The shaping I can do a pretty good job with if I go slowly and am careful to stop, look at pictures of saws that have well made handles, compare mine to those, and make adjustments accordingly.

Actually since posting my "i hope its half as good" statement, I am happy to say that I think I got the struggles with the mortise for the back resolved and more or less completed the shaping of the the handle which I am very pleased with. Now I just need to hope the I don't screw everything up when I drill the holes is the saw plate. Hopefully, I'll post a thread with my completed saw early next week. Mike, I'll shoot you an email as soon as I get the pics posted.

[Mike Allen1010]

Chris, good luck with the saw build-- I look forward to seeing your pictures!

I am certainly not a metalworking expert -- far from it, however I've had a hard time drilling holes for saw nuts in 1095 spring steel plate.

I just have common steel drill bits and they're probably not very sharp. I have warped a few plates I think from the combination of heat and pressure in trying to drill the saw nut holes - but I really don't know.

I have had good luck using a simple, inexpensive hand punch I got from Harbor freight. It looks kind of like a giant staple gun. The punches have a sharp central point that makes it easier for me to get the holes exactly where I want them And the punch/sleeves leave a nice symmetrical hole with clean margins.

I hope I'm not muddying the waters here. I'm sure there are others here who know a lot more about drilling steel that I do and hopefully they can chime in with better advice.

All all the best,

Mike

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Chris, good luck with the saw build-- I look forward to seeing your pictures!

I am certainly not a metalworking expert -- far from it, however I've had a hard time drilling holes for saw nuts in 1095 spring steel plate.

I just have common steel drill bits and they're probably not very sharp. I have warped a few plates I think from the combination of heat and pressure in trying to drill the saw nut holes - but I really don't know.

I have had good luck using a simple, inexpensive hand punch I got from Harbor freight. It looks kind of like a giant staple gun. The punches have a sharp central point that makes it easier for me to get the holes exactly where I want them And the punch/sleeves leave a nice symmetrical hole with clean margins.

I hope I'm not muddying the waters here. I'm sure there are others here who know a lot more about drilling steel that I do and hopefully they can chime in with better advice.

All all the best,

Mike

Hi Mike,

the 1095 spring steel indeed is hard to be drilled. A good punch should be good for the hole of the saw screws unless the plate isn't thicker than 0.020" or 0.024". Thicker stock better will be drilled. Flawless results you will get if the holes will be drilled on a good drill press by using a solid carbide drill bit.

Cheers
Klaus

[Ron Bontz]

+1 on the carbide bit. I usually put a drop of cutting fluid on the spot as well.

[george wilson]

I always just drilled 1095 with cheap carbide tipped masonry bits. Run them FAST in the drill press. Be careful to not overheat them,or the brazing will melt and lose the tip. Never had this happen on saw steel,but have had it happen when drilling 1/16" solid HSS power hacksaw blades,which I've made several kitchen knives from.

I do not put oil on the drilled spot. The idea is that the carbide,running at 2000 rpm,will heat up the feel,even HSS,removing the temper,and scooping out the softened steel. Works great,and these drills are about $2.50,and available at any hardware,Lowes,HD.

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks for the drilling tips guys. I'm going to need to get a punch or carbide bit. Guess I'll stop by BORG first and try Georges solution because I really wanted to get this saw done and put to use (vs ordering something and having to wait). I got one of the holes drilled using my regular bits. Started with a thin one and then went wider and wider until it was the correct size. Then went to drill the second and couldn't do it - I seem to have dulled all my bits drilling the first one. I should probably pick up some transfer punchs also to make sure that I get that second hole in exactly the right place. Will let you all know how it goes.

[Chris Griggs]

Just got back with a $3 carbide bit from the BORG. Drilled through the plate accurately in 10 seconds flat. I didn't do a perfect job, there is a very very tiny bit of play in the handle,not enough to effect cutting, just enough to very slightly bother the perfectionist side of me - but really I wont let it bother me. Actually The saw is going to work great! Now I'm off to file the teath an put the final touches on the handle.

EDIT: Even better there is no play in the handle... I just hadn't tighten down one of the saw nut fully. Sweet!