Fix a sloppy tongue and groove?

[Bill Bixby]

I'm making a sliding door with a panel at the bottom and I made the tongue of the panel too thin (by 1/16).

Here is a pic of something similar http://i.imgur.com/03ETL.jpg



The purpose of the panel is to add stiffness to the door so it was going to be glued up solid. I was thinking of gluing it up as-is and then inserting dowels through the edge of the door frame and into the panel to firm it up.

Is that the best way?

I could glue shims that run the length of the tongue and then reroute?

Thanks!

[glenn bradley]

I could glue shims that run the length of the tongue and then reroute?

That is what I would do. Probably because this is the fix I have been most exposed to in my readings and show viewings.

[Todd Burch]

Yes, glue a too thick shim on your tongue (perhaps both sides, depending on how you cut it wrong) and recut to fit. Simple, simple.

[mreza Salav]

The trick to fix the tongue issue is as you said, but I'd be concerned about gluing up a solid panel into a frame. You could probably get away with dowels in the center of the panel
from the frames but if they beyond that it could spell trouble down the road (panel needs to move for expansion/contraction).

[Jeff Duncan]

I agree with Mreza, if it's solid wood that's a recipe for failure. If it's mdf or similar then you should be fine gluing it in place. As for the fix, if it's solid wood, glue on some shims, re-cut the tongue to proper size and leave it loose in the frame to allow for movement.....same as a panel in a door.

If it's mdf I'd still do it the same way by adding shim stock and re-cutting, but I'd glue it into the frame.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jay Jolliffe]

The Shoji doors I made I used plywood & veneered the panel...242339Sorry about the bad pic....

[Bill Bixby]

The Shoji doors I made I used plywood & veneered the panel...242339Sorry about the bad pic....

wow, those are awesome...you should do a tutorial

My first attempt at shoji was a sliding privacy screen..

http://i.imgur.com/62DZxl.jpg

[Bill Bixby]

I agree with Mreza, if it's solid wood that's a recipe for failure. If it's mdf or similar then you should be fine gluing it in place. As for the fix, if it's solid wood, glue on some shims, re-cut the tongue to proper size and leave it loose in the frame to allow for movement.....same as a panel in a door.

If it's mdf I'd still do it the same way by adding shim stock and re-cutting, but I'd glue it into the frame.

good luck,
JeffD

Yes, the panel is two pieces of hard maple edge joined.

I'm concerned that if its a 'floating' panel it wont provide any strength to the door. Maybe it doesnt need that much strength as I think it does?

Do I really have to worry about expansion/contraction since its all the same type of wood?

[john bateman]

Many wood veneers are just under 1/32" thick. Glue a piece to either side of the undersized tongue and it will be a near perfect fit.

[Bill Bixby]

Many wood veneers are just under 1/32" thick. Glue a piece to either side of the undersized tongue and it will be a near perfect fit.

great idea! I have some edge banding lying around

[mreza Salav]

Do I really have to worry about expansion/contraction since its all the same type of wood?

Yes, any cross-grain glue-up that is more than a few inches (you might get away up to 6") will spell trouble at the end (it's a matter of time only).
If you really want glue-up panel use plywood of the same wood. You can glue your plywood all around to get the strength you want.

[Jeff Duncan]

Yes, the panel is two pieces of hard maple edge joined.

I'm concerned that if its a 'floating' panel it wont provide any strength to the door. Maybe it doesnt need that much strength as I think it does?

Do I really have to worry about expansion/contraction since its all the same type of wood?

Your concern is correct, the floating panel will not provide any real strength to the door. How much strength it needs depends on how the door is to be used. For instance a hinged door needs to be much more robust than a top hung sliding door.

Yes solid wood is going to move. The point that the woods are the same is irrelevant....so let's back up and take a closer look. You have 2 fixed pieces of material top and bottom that will not move any significant amount since they are both narrow and fixed in place. Now your taking another panel, (of which the species is close to irrelevant), and fixing that panel in place between the other 2 pieces which are fixed. Now as the relative humidity changes seasonally the panel is going to want to move...either shrink or expand across the grain. As it's fixed in place it cannot move freely so it will force something. That force can lead to something failing, possible the joinery around it. So knowing this we want to let our panel float so it can move freely over time, or we make it with a material that has relatively little movement like mdf and fix it in place.

Either technique could work, (depending on how much strength is needed), but the point is to remember your working with a material that moves, and that movement always needs to be accounted for in the design of the project ;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Bill Bixby]

Thanks everyone...I will let the panel float. its a hanging/sliding door so its probably no big deal.

[Jeff Duncan]

You should be OK with a sliding door assuming good quality joints at the frame connections....(say M&T or loose tenon), and a good system of sliding to keep resistance minimal.

good luck,
JeffD