Clay pigeon

[Kathy Marshall]

Early in September I dropped the plates off for laser engraving, when I told the woman that was helping me that I had turned the plates, she said her husband (who does the engraving) was looking for someone to make some clay pigeons for their gun club clients and asked if I would give them a quote. I asked her if she could give me a sample and I'd see what I could do. Her husband was out of town, so she said she'd have a sample for me when I picked up the plates.
When I picked up the plates, they were both out of the office but the assistant found the sample and I took it with me.
Tonight I turned a test piece from bubinga to see if I could get it close enough, and to see how long it would take me.
I really have no idea what to quote them. It took about 2 hours from cutting out a blank to final polishing. Between my time and the wood (I'll have to use kiln dried wood) I'd like to ask for about $40. I have no idea what his costs are from plaque suppliers.
I feel like it should be worth my while, since for everyone of these I turn, it means I'm not turning something I want to turn.
Am I crazy to ask that much? I've also considered offering to do them in trade for engravings if they don't like the price.
What do you think?

Here's the one I turned and the sample they gave me. Mine is finished with antique oil.

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Thanks for looking!
Comments and critiques are welcome.

[Peter Fabricius]

Hi Kathy;
You are right on target (pun intended). It does take time to produce these so you deserve proper remuneration for the work. Your sample looks fantastic.
You should ask the Laser guy for a real clay pigeon so you can see what they really look like.
If he does not like the cash price then the Laser work in trade would be a great option as long as he uses the $40.00 against his retail prices and NO tax.
Good luck the plaque looks real good.
Peter F.

[Richard Madden]

Kathy,
I think the price is darn good. Your time and the cost of material have to be taken into consideration. And a trade for laser engraving is a worthwhile option. I'm curious what laser work costs. I'm making some boxes for Beads of Courage and if it's not too expensive, I'd like to have some engraved. Do they charge by the letter or what?

[Baxter Smith]

Nice work Kathy. They look like the real thing!

[Lloyd Keniston]

Hi Kathy,
I do not post very often. But on this I have to agree with Peter 100%. I think it should be $20 per hour PLUS materials. Any craftsperson worth their salt should get at least that much. And, from what I've seen of your work, that's almost giving it away. Nuff said.........

[Bernie Weishapl]

Those are just cool Kathy. Sure look like the real deal.

[John Kent]

Super job Kathy!! Just wondering, did you have to hollow them out also. The price to them seems very fair. The option of trading for engraving sounds great too. Another plus would be that this might lead to more work and would surely get your name and work out there for more people to see.Once again Great Job!!

John

[Kathy Marshall]

Hi Kathy;
You are right on target (pun intended). It does take time to produce these so you deserve proper remuneration for the work. Your sample looks fantastic.
You should ask the Laser guy for a real clay pigeon so you can see what they really look like.
If he does not like the cash price then the Laser work in trade would be a great option as long as he uses the $40.00 against his retail prices and NO tax.
Good luck the plaque looks real good.
Peter F.
Thanks Peter! For the trade option I was thinking a straight across, 1 clay pigeon for 1 piece engraved (for a basic job similar to the plates I had done), or they could even bank it as cash value credit.

Kathy,
I think the price is darn good. Your time and the cost of material have to be taken into consideration. And a trade for laser engraving is a worthwhile option. I'm curious what laser work costs. I'm making some boxes for Beads of Courage and if it's not too expensive, I'd like to have some engraved. Do they charge by the letter or what?
Thanks Richard! I hate to admit it, but I didn't ask about pricing when I dropped off the plates. I had an idea what it should cost and was hoping for the best. There were only a couple of engravers in the area and the one I chose seemed much more flexible in what they could do. They charged $40 per plate which was close to what I expected. I would just call the engravers in your area and ask how they charge. Something to consider for your Beads of Courage boxes is that the area to be engraved needs to be flat to get an even burn.

Nice work Kathy. They look like the real thing!
Thanks Baxter!

Hi Kathy,
I do not post very often. But on this I have to agree with Peter 100%. I think it should be $20 per hour PLUS materials. Any craftsperson worth their salt should get at least that much. And, from what I've seen of your work, that's almost giving it away. Nuff said.........
Thanks Lloyd!

Those are just cool Kathy. Sure look like the real deal.
Thanks Bernie! The only time I've seen clay pigeons is when they were flying through the air just before I shot them and they broke into many many pieces. :eek:

Super job Kathy!! Just wondering, did you have to hollow them out also. The price to them seems very fair. The option of trading for engraving sounds great too. Another plus would be that this might lead to more work and would surely get your name and work out there for more people to see.Once again Great Job!!

John
Thanks John! They are not hollowed, just the flat depression on the top. I didn't take pics of the bottom, but it's perfectly flat so they can engrave the award title or description.

[Russell Eaton]

Very neat project, and they look like the real thing. The local laser guy that I use charges 5$ per setup. As long as the piece does not have to be moved he still charges 5$.

[Thom Sturgill]

I think $40 is way too low. How much does your mechanic charge per hour? Shop time has to account for replacement costs of equipment and supplies as well as your time. $20/hr is possibly fair, but on TOP of those other items. I would price it closer to $75. Walk into a shop that sells trophies and check some prices. Bernie just commented in a recent post about trying top compete with craftsmen selling $7 pens. Don't put yourself into that group, your work is too good.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Looks like an interesting business opportunity for you! Pricing is always hard to figure out and hope you and the laser business owner can come to terms where you both are happy!

Just me... but I would want to know up front - just how many clays I would be looking at turning. That would make a difference in pricing as well if you had to figure out additional sources/prices for exotic woods.

Good luck with everything!

[Alan Trout]

Kathy,

Not sure how to price them but they do look like a clay target. They look closer to Lawry target which is a Canadian company. Having shot probably close to if not over 500,000 targets over my competitive shooting career each brand is unique. Very well done.

Alan

[Peter Fabricius]

Kathy;
A question from your comments above. You say the Clay is flat on the bottom so the engraver can laser the title of the award?
"Thanks John! They are not hollowed, just the flat depression on the top. I didn't take pics of the bottom, but it's perfectly flat so they can engrave the award title or description."
I am wondering why the engraving is not all on the front so the Clay can be hung on a wall?
How are you holding the back of the Clay on the Lathe? Faceplate with screws, or can you make a recess for expansion chucking?
Peter F.

[Scott Hackler]

Those are neat. I think a 1:1 trade based on $40 is a great deal for both of you. Until you buy your own laser! :)

[Jon Nuckles]

Kathy,

I do think the amount you anticipate doing is important, although perhaps for a different reason. If you are going to do 5-10 per year, you can trade for engraving and/or make a little extra for new tools, and pricing isn't that critical. If the engraver is going to want 5-10 per week, however, it will likely start to feel like work rather than fun to turn the same shape over and over. You do a wide variety of projects and may well resent being taken from them. Don't worry about the "market" for this type of work; price it at a point that you will feel good about doing them. If that price is too high for the engraver, you won't get the work. Better to not do the work than do it at a price that doesn't produce happiness for you. All this assumes, of course, that turning doesn't have to pay the bills for you! Good luck with whatever you decide, but don't stop making and posting all of your unique pieces.

[Kathy Marshall]

Thanks everyone! I'll let you know how it goes.


Kathy;
A question from your comments above. You say the Clay is flat on the bottom so the engraver can laser the title of the award?
"Thanks John! They are not hollowed, just the flat depression on the top. I didn't take pics of the bottom, but it's perfectly flat so they can engrave the award title or description."
I am wondering why the engraving is not all on the front so the Clay can be hung on a wall?
How are you holding the back of the Clay on the Lathe? Faceplate with screws, or can you make a recess for expansion chucking?
Peter F.
Peter, here's a pic of the back of the sample, apparently they're not meant to be hung on a wall. They're only about 4 1/2" diameter.

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[Peter Fabricius]

Thanks for that Michelle;
I guess I just do not understand the purpose of the wooden Clay Pigeon. The Laser engraving is very nice but it will be hidden when the Clay is sitting on a table.
The engraving should be on the front and then hung on a wall. IMHO.
I have downed a lot of Clays, (and missed a bunch too) shooting at the Lehigh Skeet Range in Pensylvania with my Son, he lives in South Orange, NJ.
Neat idea that could be better???? I would add a key hole for the hanger made with a plunge router and a small key hole bit. (Plunge to make a 3/8" hole and move the router about 1/2" for the slot and return to the first position and raise router, all done)
Peter F.

[Belton Garvin]

$40 sounds pretty close for 1...the key that I have found when producing prduction type items is batch processing. It may take 2 hours for 1...but 2.5-3 hours for 2. and the time gets better as you refine batch processing proceedures. One of my production items used to take me 30 minutes per unit with a 10% failure rate, after a year of "practice" I have the process down to about 12 minutes per unit with less than 5% failure rate. I wouldn't reduce the price per unit, but I would increase the number I process at a time. Equipment setup time as well as getting in the mindset of the project is most of the time spent.

[David Dobbs]

http://www.shootingsportsouvenirs.com/ email this guy an ask him what he is getting for them.

[Doug Herzberg]

Kathy, this thread reminds me of the story of the American capitalist and the native artist. Admiring his work the American asks, "How much?"

"$1," says the native.

"How much for 100 of them?" queries the capitalist, thinking of economies of scale.

"$50 each," replies the native.

Aghast, the American asks "How can you justify charging 50 times the unit price for a hundred lot?"

The artist says, "Well, making the first one was fun."

If this is a favor, charge them your costs. If it's a job, charge them a fair price for your time, in money or trade. If it stops being fun, charge a premium or don't do it at all. That's just my opinion, and not necessarily how I run my life, so take it for what it's worth. (I'd probably promise to do 100, then regret it, then procrastinate in a passive-aggressive way, hoping they'd forget.)

[Tony Profera]

Kathy;
I think 40.00 is good for this sort of work as you will probably get faster as you go. You should be able to get it down to under an hour IMO. Also might need to charge a premium for any wood requested thats spendy.

[Rich Aldrich]

As a Skeet, Trap and Sporting clays shooter, I think these are a great prize. Really nice work. At the gun club where I used to shoot, we would spend $50 to $90 on Marbles hunting knives. The club is going to have to spend a bit of money for prizes and $40 doesnt seem too bad at all. Obviously the engraving increases the cost.