Sharpener question. Tormek vs Jet

[Dale Turner]

Hey guys Im posting this here because my main purpose for sharpening is my hand tools. Chisels and plane blades mostly. I have a wetstone and i can put a pretty good edge on my tools with it, but Im limited in my woodworking time as it is and sharpening takes too long. Its time to get a good sharpener...

Ive read the reviews of both the Tormek and the jet wet sharpener. Most of the comparisons are putting the Jet vs the T-7. Since the t-7 is really out of my price range Im wondering how it compares to the T-3. For $400 which one is better? or should I really save up for the T-7?


Thanks for the help guys!


Dale

[george wilson]

I have both. The Jet is EXTREMELY PRONE to breaking down. Even the dealers have told me that many do not work right out of the box. I figured out that mine breaks down because the metal push on connecters that connect wires to the circuit board are literally as thin as aluminum beer can metal(they REALLY ARE!!!!) and they crack when the assemblers push them onto the "U" shaped terminals sticking out of the circuit boards. I went to replace the circuit board in mine and discovered this. It soon broke down again,and I haven't bothered to open it up again,having other means of grinding. I HAD repaired it by soldering the cracked connecter directly to the circuit board. Possibly,another gave way. Terribly SHODDY connecters.

I was given a Tormek by a friend. It still works fine. It doesn't have variable speed like the Jet,but really doesn't need it. The NEW MODELS have a stainless steel shaft that goes through the wheel. BE SURE you get that feature. If you don';t,the shaft will rust itself to the shaft,and you may not be able to remove the wheel. That big wheel sucks up nearly a QUART of water in operation,and the shaft WILL get wet.

The Jet was nothing but a copy of the Tormek,and a poorly made one at that. When you call their repair depot.,they boast and brag about how proud they are of their products,and act like you are an idiot. That was my experience,if this helps you.

[David Weaver]

Get a used tormek supergrind. Tormek's new prices are high, but the small grinder is disappointingly small and the motor wattage is half.

If you want to get a small wet grinder, get one cheap from sheppach.

Like george says, you want one with a stainless shaft. If you can get an old one cheap, though, and the stone comes off the arbor fairly well, you can buy the stainless shaft kit for about $60.

Tormek should have *given* that kit to every tormek owner for free, because the one absolutely flawed issue with the old tormeks was the plated shaft. As soon as the plating was breeched,the shaft rusts and a stone (that constantly gets wet) fuses to a rusted shaft. You will not curse any other time in your shop like you will when you try to get the stone off of the rusted shaft and either you mash your fingers or the stone breaks. I got one off of mine successfully and switched to a black stone. When I tried to get the black stone off a couple of years later to ship the machine, I broke it in half trying to get it off at the end of an hour ordeal. It's a real downer to break a $200 stone in half because the manufacturer put a non-stainless shaft in a machine, presumably with the assumption that you wouldn't try to get the stone off until it was worn down.

After switching the wheel the first time, I had purchased the stainless shaft, but didn't have the chance to put it in the machine, but the recipient did so that problem is solved.

[Larry Heflin]

I've had the Jet for several years now. It is problem free so far, but it has not seen heavy use.

[george wilson]

When even the dealers (who would like to make a sale!!!) have told me that Jets often don't work right out of the box,consider yourself very lucky if yours is still working.

[David Weaver]

Did I say anything about the wheels? When I was shopping around and bought a used tormek, I did consider the Jet, but the consensus at the time was that the tormek wheels are more durable and much longer lasting. I don't know what jet asks for their replacement wheels, but I have yet to find anything as good as the tormek wheels. The sheppach wheels are decent, but they might be a bit wide in the center to fit easily on a tormek or jet arbor.

there are tons of supergrinds with the original aluminum oxide gray wheel barely used. I think of the two (the black and the gray) I liked the standard wheel better. Fortunately, I broke the black one and not the gray one.

I don't know if you're supposed to let the tormek wheel stay in water, probably not, but I never had any damage from doing that a few times, which is nice. I did get a cheap replacement wheel from grizzly and while it was already extremely poor quality to start, I accidentally left it in water one time and it literally became like pressed together sand and came totally apart. It would've been better hammered into loose coarse aluminum oxide grit, because as a wheel it was no good for anything, even before damage.

[george wilson]

Thanks to my good friend David Weaver,for giving me the Tormek,and saving me from the everlasting nightmare of forever repairing the Jet (O.K.,I exaggerated the last part!!) :):):)

[Dale Turner]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll stay away from the Jet. It's too expensive to be having those kinds of issues.

Alright, so I'm looking for a used Supergrind 2000 and the two on Ebay are basically as expensive as the t-7. Noone has really said anything about the T-3 except that it has a small motor. Is it too small to be worth looking at?

[Curt Putnam]

Dale, for $200 the Worksharp 3000 might be a good alternative for you. A lot of guys ended up with multiples of these after the BORG blowout and might be willing to sell one cheaper. I have seen them going for about $150.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Just shooting in the air here, way not get the Veritas power sharpening system http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=48435&cat=1,43072 ? but not as cheap as the workshop 3000..

[Don Dorn]

I don't use a wet grinder anymore, but I did have a Jet. Didn't like it at all - found the motor very weak - so much so that even with moderate pressure, it would slow the machine a great deal. My friend has a Tormek and there is no comparison in my opinion with that grinder being far superior. For me personally though, I just couldn't get my arms around taking it out and setting it up to grind a single blade that needed it. I went with a simple jig and a dry grinder and have never looked back.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a tormek and really like it.I havent had any problems with the wheel getting stuck to the shaft.Am currently on my second stone.I not sure if the smaller wheel is such a good idea.When my first wheel wore down it sure made the hollow deep.Seems like a waste of good metal.The LN blades are not cheap.Grinding away all that metal just for a hollow so i can balance the blade on a stone just seems wrong.
I do like it for my carving chisels.Helps alot. Andrew

[John Coloccia]

The Jet is very flimsy. I had a Tormek and I loved it for turning tools. I found I never really went to it for hand tools other than to establish a hollow grind to make sharpening easier. These days, I've finally gotten the "feel" of riding a flat bevel, even when sharpening my long, 1/4" paring chisel, so I sold the Tormek. Now I use a Worksharp 3000 to establish my bevel, and then hone on Spyderco ceramic stones and strops. It's a far easier and quicker system than hitting the Tormek.

That said, if I did any turning (which I don't anymore, I'm afraid, but if I did) I would have SOME sort of sharpening system and the Tormek would be extremely high on my list. A dry grinder with a Wolverine is up there too.

I was a sharpening junky. I had one of everything, including all sorts of different stones and jigs. Believe me it's no mistake that the more experienced woodworkers tend to get away from the contraptions if they can ever get over the hump of learning to sharpen freehand. It is so much easier and faster, and you'll find yourself honing and sharpening a lot more and always working with a sharp tool. That's why I would probably lean towards the Worksharp 3000, especially if you don't have any blades wider than 2" (and there's an attachment if you do). You can get ridiculously sharp using just the Worksharp, but as your skills progress you will find yourself perhaps using the Worksharp for rough work, and finishing off (and maintenance) by hand. In this sense, the Worksharp is very convenient because it scales with your skill level very seamlessly without ever being cumbersome.

On the other hand, the Tormek is such a pain in the butt to use that for anything other than turning tools I used it for nothing other than establishing the initial bevel. Just setting it up takes forever. Shoot, just filling it up with water takes forever. The stone just keeps on sucking it up and you have to keep adding it until it's happy. Then you have to set the angle....then you have to dump out the water. What a pain, unless you're doing a long turning session.

For the price of a T-7 and attachments, you can get a Worksharp, a low speed grinder, a good helping of Wolverine jigs and other goodies! You can do even better if you buy everything used, and that's not a bad idea, actually.

Just my opinion.

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll stay away from the Jet. It's too expensive to be having those kinds of issues.

Alright, so I'm looking for a used Supergrind 2000 and the two on Ebay are basically as expensive as the t-7. Noone has really said anything about the T-3 except that it has a small motor. Is it too small to be worth looking at?

Craigslist. My supergrind cost me $300 with a wheel that was still 98% there and one or two small accessories (I added to that and used little except the turning tool stuff). Maybe George can wear it out.

There was one sold in the classifieds here not too long ago, too, for less than that.

You could put a WTB out there also if you pitch your $6 toward being a contributor, I'd imagine there are people who bought them and either decided HT woodworking wasn't for them, or who for one reason or another decided to use a belt grinder or wheel grinder, some people want funny amounts for them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to shoot for $300-$350. You want that wide wheel and twice the power over the T-3. I never had a T-3, but I did have a sheppach-made 8" grinder, and if you plan on using the thing for a while, then the big one will make you happier.

[Ryan Baker]

Stick with the waterstones. A Tormek will not save you time over using the stones, except maybe for initial grinding of a new tool. I barely ever use mine any more, because it is just too much of an annoyance and too time consuming for regular sharpening. My waterstones are way faster to set up and use. The exception is turning tools, which get done on the dry grinder. The thing I like the Tormek best for is sharpening gouges and things like that, where the jig is handy. This works best if you sharpen a bunch of tools in a batch instead of just setting up for one tool.

That said, if you are going to get a Tormek-type grinder, stay away from the Jet model.

Do NOT leave your Tormek wheel sitting in water when you aren't using it. At least drop the tray down so that the wheel is clear of the water.

I have the stainless shaft waiting to go into my Tormek. Part of me says hurry up and get it in there before the shaft rusts any more. The other half says don't risk breaking that wheel until it needs to be changed anyway (which may be never at the current rate).

[Brent VanFossen]

I've had the Jet sharpener for about a year and it works fine. On the other hand, I use my diamond plate and water stones with a Veritas Mark II jig most of the time. It's easier and quicker by hand.

One of the things I dislike about the Jet, and may be the same for the T-7, is that it can take some fiddling to get the setup right so the blade is ground square to its edge. The Veritas Mark II is less prone to errors.

With the grinder, I don't just put the blade on it, turn it on, and work on something else. I keep the blade moving left and right so I wear the surface evenly, and apply a little hand pressure. So I'm standing by the machine the whole time.

[Johnny Kleso]

I have the Jet and was a waste of money IMHO
Get a slow speed 8" bench grinder and some bench stones..
If not bench stones some other sharpening system that you can do a finish honing with..

[David Weaver]

The other half says don't risk breaking that wheel until it needs to be changed anyway (which may be never at the current rate).

This is the half you want to listen to. Unless you want to have a really large non-friable lapping stone in two pieces.

The SS shaft is easy to put on, and when the wheel wears down, if it ever does, you can just throw out the whole assembly without even breaking the stone off of the wheel.

You can play with it a little bit to see if the wheel is loose enough to turn on the shaft, it may be if the plating is intact under the wheel. My first wheel was hard to get off, it took some of the plating with it. That made the second wheel impossible to get off, the rust was a lot worse than the first despite the fact that it was on for less time than the first one.

If it's not loose, then leave it go until you need to toss the wheel, the penalty is $180 last i checked for breaking an al-ox wheel.

[george wilson]

Ryan,better do like David says and put on the stainless steel shaft. It takes only a very few minutes. The Tormek is a very simple machine to work on. I put the stainless shaft on the Tormek david gave me.

The Tormek's motor is about twice the size of the Jet's motor,too. I have both,but as I mentioned,the Jet keeps breaking down.

John C. is right: These wet wheel grinders will suck up about a quart of water!!! I keep refilling my water tray several times when I use it. But,when you do get the stone full of water,it will grind nice,smooth bevels.

For years I have used my Wilton Square Wheel belt grinder,but they now cost about $2300.00 WITHOUT the variable speed motor(another $400.00),but are the fastest way to remove steel. When I MAKE knives,it is a must use. It will still burn metal unless

you are good at quenching,though,and the wet wheel grinders do leave a nice,smooth grind which I like,without overheating the metal.

[Gary Hodgin]

Glad I read this thread. I have a SuperGrind 2000 with the plated shaft. I've noticed a little rust on the shaft even though I put a light coat of mineral oil on it twice a year (when we do the daylight savings changes). Just ordered a new stainless shaft and upgraded water trough from Sharptools USA. They have free shipping right now on orders of $50 or more.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have the Worksharp 3000 and love it. However, I also bought their Wide Blade Attachment. This is essentially a flat plate that attaches so that it is level with the top surface of the glass sanding disks. It comes with a honing guide that works fine. I actually use a Veritas MK II though because I wanted the Camber Roller and Skew Registration Jig. Next I'm planning on getting the Worksharp Toolbar Attachment which accepts Tormek Jigs.

[Gary Herrmann]

So out of curiousity, the new Tormek T7s don't have SS shafts?

[David Weaver]

So out of curiousity, the new Tormek T7s don't have SS shafts?

They do, along with the new style square edge jig and the microadjust tool arm.

If my post was any confusion, what I meant was that tormek should've offered those as a recall item to everyone who otherwise spent big money on a prior generation machine only to have it seize the grinding wheels.

[Dale Turner]

Wow, thanks for all of the help guys! The info has been really helpful. I think I'm going to see if I can find a good deal on a supergrind or save up for a T-7. After hearing all of the feedback I really just think I'll always wish I did...

Thanks for the help guys!

Dale

[Tri Hoang]

If your primary concern is with shaping plane blades and chisels, the Tormek is really overkill (and slow). I'd use a T7 sometimes for turning tools but mostly hit a grinder when I need to reshape a tool.

[edward sutcliffe]

hi just want to say i've used a scheppac for 5 or 6 yrs it was ok but not great this week i splashed out on a t7 from tormec and the difference is huge .it cost 650euro but tbh i think it was money well spent it's handled everything i've put on it which is every tool i have as i've spent the last 3 days going over every tool and reshaping or touching up and its done em all plus all the cutter heads from the multi tools .if u cant stretch to the price of the tormek the s brand is fine but if i was starting again i'd save a bit longer and get a tormek as i say i found the difference huge in all ways from quality of product to quality of tool edge .

[Jack Lemley]

When even the dealers (who would like to make a sale!!!) have told me that Jets often don't work right out of the box,consider yourself very lucky if yours is still working.

My Jet worked right out of the box 6 years ago and is still working well. Paid half what a Tormek cost.

Jack

[george wilson]

It is a matter of pure luck if you have a Jet 6 years old that still works. I have said before that I found the little pressed on wire connectors on the circuit board of the Jet are TRULY,TRULY as thin as a beer can. I am sure they get cracked when they are pressed on. A little solder will fix them,if you know what to do(from reading this and my other posts). Yours must have been assembled by an unusually careful operator. Mine broke down,I fixed it. Now,it is broken again.

[Jack Lemley]

It is a matter of pure luck if you have a Jet 6 years old that still works. I have said before that I found the little pressed on wire connectors on the circuit board of the Jet are TRULY,TRULY as thin as a beer can. I am sure they get cracked when they are pressed on. A little solder will fix them,if you know what to do(from reading this and my other posts). Yours must have been assembled by an unusually careful operator. Mine broke down,I fixed it. Now,it is broken again.

George,

Mine was probably built on Tuesday morning. Long enough after the weekend that the hang over is gone and early enough in the week that the assembler hasn't begun thinking about next weekend's party ;-) Seriously, though, these things have been available for a long time now and it seems Jet has at the very least a reasonably good reputation regarding its other power tools does anyone think they would still be building this thing with serious flaws in the material/workmanship? We tend to be most vocal when we are displeased and less so when we are satisfied with a tool so we will hear 10 times as many rants as complements on the same tool typically.

Jack

[Carl Beckett]

For plane irons and chisels, you might also consider the makita horizontal wet grinder. Less $$

[Archie England]

I've used my Tormek 2000 for nearly six years, and each year I use it a little less (still have the original wheel but it's down to just under 8" now). Tormek is a quality sharpening system!!!!!! It has wonderfully worked every time. (I never keep the wheel in water unless I'm using it.) What it did for me in terms of planes and chisels is this, it defined a level of sharpness that I had never been able to produce. Now with both oil stones or waterstones, I can go way beyond the Tormek's sharp. For prep before stones, purchasing a Tormek is a waste. I can prep most blades on a dry, slow-speed grinder just fine--albeit I'm still a challenged on perfect, 90* consistency (but practicing still). However, if I've got a mangled blade edge or a blade that has been unintentionally skewed (old plane rehabs) or a vintage blade that could be easily blued, I'll use my Tormek in a heartbeat. I use it only for the low stone setting since my stones out perform the Tormek in ultimate sharpness. But, without the Tormek, I'd taken a lot longer (without someone teaching me--thank you Chris Griggs) how to use stones.

One last note, here: as a wood turner, the only sharpening system better for my gouges is a knife making belt sander. It beats a Tormek in every category except for safety. Faster, but not as refined for the finished edge, is the OneWay grinding jigs for slow or high speed. It works quite well for most of my turning tool sharpening needs but fails at producing the better finishing edge that the Tormek excels at. Tormek is a fabulous tool--if you need it!

[Jim Foster]

I'm a novice that purchased a Tormek, and it's a dream to use. I felt good about the purchase the first time I used it. Once a hollow grind is established on a blade, it last for a number of trips to the waterstone for honing. Seems like every once in a while I have a grinding party where I'll grind a number of blades and then the Tormek sits dormant again for a period of time.