Wedged M&T question

[daniel lane]

Hi, all -

I'm throwing together a quick shoe rack to keep everyone's shoes in one place in the family room. Here's the plan:

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Bottom for mom and dad's shoes, middle/top for kids shoes (hence the angle - visibility for smaller shoes not to get lost).

Originally I was going to dovetail the top, then I decided a small lip would be functional and it would be much faster to do the M&T up top, as well. I've got the dadoes cut and everything cut to size, all that's left is to cut the mortises and tenons.

Normally I would wedge against the end grain of the side, which would mean the wedges will all be horizontal, but as I look at it now, I'm thinking that the top M&T is really close to the edge and I'm worried about blowing it out (upward). What's the community thinking on vertical wedges, even though it would mean pressure along the long grain of the sides and risk splitting? For scale, the top shelf is 7-1/4" deep, and the lip above it is 1/4" tall. Dadoes are 1/8" deep, just enough to add additional strength if the kiddos try to climb or jump on it.

I'm thinking wedged because I'm trying to do this without any fasteners and I want something sturdy enough that if the kids try to stand or climb on it, it won't rack. Perhaps I shouldn't bother with the wedges, but just try to pare everything down to a seriously snug fit...?


Thanks,

daniel

[Todd Burch]

Dovetailed top would be much better. You're really too close to the end grain to effectively use a mortise and tenon up there. Now, if you made a bridal joint and put a piece of trim across the top, and used a couple nails or screws (hidden under the trim) you should be fine.

Todd

[daniel lane]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too. I opted away from the dovetail because I thought the lip would be a good idea and it would be done faster, and by the time I cut everything, I realized what I'd done. :o

I'm thinking that perhaps I will just glue and clamp (and possibly use a fastener) the top in place in the dado and use wedged M&T in the middle. Not pretty, but function is more important for this and that way every time I look at it I will remember my mistake...


daniel

[Mike Cutler]

Dan

If it was just for Mom & Dad I'd just wedge it vertically. 1:6 for softwood. 1:3 for hardwood. The kiddies though make it a whole 'nother thing.
You can have what you in appearance though. Leave your dado in place and make a faux end grain tenon. Screw though the sides into to long grain of the tread where the faux tenon will be with some and cover it with the faux tenon material. The faux tenon will have to be wider than your drawing though. Even in a through tenon that apparent size, in a board that wide, may not have been enough
It's naturally going to want to rack though. Anyway to put a 1:6 inner slope angle to the sides?

[Frank Drew]

Daniel,

You could stick with your original plan if you increased the height of the side pieces so that they stuck up above the top shelf by a couple of inches. It might look better, too.

[Jason Roehl]

I can't imagine any fastening solution--be it wedged M&T or mechanical fasteners-- being able to withstand racking forces if a kid decides to climb on that. A simple wide piece or two across the back would really be the way to go. (The BEST would be a diagonal brace, but that would be ugly.)

[daniel lane]

Thanks, all. Mike, the faux tenon may not be a bad idea - I could put some screws in (I know, end grain) and cover them with the tenons. Hmmm. Frank, everything's already cut, so I'd rather use what I have - I'm cheap that way. If it fails, I'll definitely reconsider the design, though.


I can't imagine any fastening solution--be it wedged M&T or mechanical fasteners-- being able to withstand racking forces if a kid decides to climb on that. A simple wide piece or two across the back would really be the way to go. (The BEST would be a diagonal brace, but that would be ugly.)

Jason, something across the back isn't a bad idea. I am tempted to just use some 1/8" ply I've got around, but I've got some spare hardwood that I think I might use. I'm far more interested in strong and functional than pretty, but I might be able to get both. I'll consider further and perhaps draw up something tonight to post. We can make this a community project! :p



daniel

[daniel lane]

Okay, SWMBO has spoken. Looks like an 1/8" ply back will both protect the wall from shoes being thrown in and it will provide stability against racking. So, I think it'll wind up like this:
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The ply back will be held in with some pin nails, probably. Not really my first choice, I would have preferred:
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but protecting the wall is a good idea with these little ones! Thanks all for your input, I'll try to photograph the final project (if it's not too ugly!) and post pics.



daniel