Lie Nielsen Shoot Board

[Jim Galvin]

Saw pictures of the LN shooting board for their shoot board plane looks nice and $$$$$$.

[Steve Friedman]

Was there a price tag attached?

[Mike Henderson]

I assume you know that you can build your own shooting board easily and for a small cost. Our ancestors used shooting boards and didn't have LN to provide it for them.

There are many designs out there on the web but a simple one will work fine. I've built several, of different designs, at one time or another.

Derek Cohen has built and documented several. You can find pictures on the forum or on his web site (sorry, I don't remember the link).

Mike

[Andrew Hughes]

Wonder when they will list it on their site.Looks like a sturdy chute.Un like the wooden ones i make every so often that get warpy and out of square.
Anyone see the vintage Stanley chute that was on the classified last month.I think the seller was asking 8or 900$ .Sure was tempting. Hope the LN is less than the plane.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I don't get it.... you can make a STABLE one out of MDF. let it soak up some shellac to toughen it, some super glue on the edge that the plane rides on and your good to go. or just use plywood.... this is one thing where I don't
see why people would want to buy... especially not for $$$$$

aside from that it looks soo heavy and foreign to a woodworking bench.... looks like it should be permanently mounted to some metal working station.

[Andrew Hughes]

Plywood, Mdf yuk nasty stuff

[Matthew N. Masail]

stable and pratical......

[Jim Neeley]

Different strokes for different folks, guys.. It's all good.

Jim,

It looks like it'd be tough to square the end of a long piece. Did they make a ready provision for making a wider base for it?? By that I mean did they make the base a standard, machined thickness, such that a 1/2 or 3/4" piece of MDF would be the same height, for an "extension table", or could you tell? Otherwise squaring the end of a 30" shelf, for example, would be a hassle.

When I'd read they were going to be making a board I'd assumed it'd be 12"x16" or larger, although expandable would be nice too.

Jim

[Pedder Petersen]

Saw pictures of the LN shooting board for their shoot board plane looks nice and $$$$$$.

Hi Jim this is a picture from Jeff wich he linked to on wood net handtool forum. This is a quote from that threat:

The shooting board shown in the pictures is actually not made by Lie-Nielsen. That is a modern copy of the Stanley #52 (I didn't ask who made it) that they are using for R&D and demonstration purposes for the L-N #51. This is the first time I have seen it outside the Lie-Nielsen headquarters, though it has been around for a while.

As many of you know, the goal had been to manufacture an improved copy of the #51, which is available now, followed by a left-hand version of the #51, and an improved version of the #52 shoot board. In order to accommodate right-hand and left-hand planes, the improved #52 will have a fence and quadrant at both ends of the board. In other words, it won't look exactly like the board in the photos.

It is my understanding that the foundry patterns for the left hand plane and shooting board are still in their infancy and will not get the go-ahead for production until the company can divert the necessary resources. If you really want to help Lie-Nielsen move forward with these new products, I would suggest buying some other tools from their catalog in the mean time to help inject some capital that can be used to finance expensive projects like the shooting board.


Cheers Pedder

[george wilson]

I'd like to build a shooting board and a special plane,and have 800# of 1/2" bronze sheet to fabricate it with. But,in my type of work,which seldom includes cabinet making,I have no need for one(except for being a tool pig!!) I do not even have the bench space to bolt one of these down.

Personally,I have about 5 LN planes,and more than that number were bought for my former job. Then,there are LV's,and my own creations!! I don't need any more(!!),but might get their new little teeny 3 1/2"(?) block plane. Good for guitar making,plus,tempting "male jewelry"! That won't add a lot to their coffers,but I think I really have done my share!!:) Had every customer done the same,they could open a Madison Avenue shop.

[Jack Curtis]

George, what makes you think they couldn't already open a Madison Ave shop if they wanted? Or maybe they already have.. :)

[george wilson]

Then,they wouldn't need to scrape pennies to make the new chute board!!!:) I think I'm still going to get the teeny little block plane(as if I need it!) Have several smaller I made years ago.

[Niels Cosman]

Hubba hubba thanks for the pictures! I've been waiting to see this for years!
Does it have any angle adjustments?
Thanks!

[Jim Neeley]

I've been eyeing that one myself, George.. it looks really sweet!

[Joe Cunningham]

I have a picture of that as well, likely at the same event based on where the other tools are laid out: the CT School of Woodworking Open House.

I tried uploading here but SMC says the picture is too big.

http://joecrafted.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/cvsw2012_10.jpg

[john brenton]

The olde-timey and twangy "You can make that so easy" song is old. I think that shooting board is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

[David Weaver]

When I'd read they were going to be making a board I'd assumed it'd be 12"x16" or larger, although expandable would be nice too.

Jim

I think few cabinetmakers and joiners in the past shot edges on anything larger than very small pieces. If the wood is big enough to support a block plane, you can more quickly mark it, saw just shy of the mark and plane to it. Doing that would present a bigger problem on tiny work, where the shoot board is more handy.

But I don't know for sure what cabinetmakers did, I know it's easier for me to put a piece in a vise if it's not very small, and just clean it up to the mark with a block plane.

[Mike Henderson]

The olde-timey and twangy "You can make that so easy" song is old. I think that shooting board is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
It all depends on whether you have more time or more money. But of all the tools in a shop, a shooting board is one of the easiest to make.

Mike

[Jim Matthews]

Isn't this a reproduction of a Stanley tool?

I bought Tico's version and love it.
I wouldn't want to lug around a casting this large...

[george wilson]

Aren't all LN tools copies of Stanleys,basically?

[Jack Curtis]

Aren't all LN tools copes of Stanleys,basically?

More like "in the style of" than copies.

[Derek Cohen]

I have long wondered whom the original target was for the Stanley #51/52? My feeling is that it was the gentleman woodworker originally, or the "technically orientated" professional owing to its cost. The same target remains so for present times - fancy shmancy shooting boards, whether the cast iron model or the furniture I build, are not necessary ... but they are oh so nice to use! :)

For those interested, I did review the LN #51 here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/LN51ShootingPlane.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/LN51ShootingPlane_html_m73102486.jpg

One of the best upgrades to make on any shooting board is (what I termed) a running fence, which comes off the #52 ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard_html_1be77b37.jpg

Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/RunningFencefortheShootingBoard.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

on dovetailed pieces, I've been experimenting with not shooting the end at all - since I'm going to plane the tails to flush everything up twice, why do it twice? It's worked better than I expected. I mark the baselines with a square and knife, referencing the edge, rather than a marking gauge.

Sometimes I think the traditional way was just to be better at sawing rather than shooting every edge.

[Joe Cunningham]

Sometimes I think the traditional way was just to be better at sawing rather than shooting every edge.

I'd guess so too. When you saw all day, every day, you'd probably get darn good at it. I saw a lot on individual projects, but then tend to have a lot of time when I can't get in the shop, so my saw skills get a bit rusty.

Interesting idea on the DT's, that actually occurred to me when reading this thread, but I've never done it. Maybe I'll try it on my next drawer project.

[Derek Cohen]

on dovetailed pieces, I've been experimenting with not shooting the end at all - since I'm going to plane the tails to flush everything up twice, why do it twice? It's worked better than I expected. I mark the baselines with a square and knife, referencing the edge, rather than a marking gauge.

Sometimes I think the traditional way was just to be better at sawing rather than shooting every edge.

I don't follow this. If you working to a reference, such as a drawer opening, the pin board (which fill the opening) must not change size. You are more likely to flush down sides (with the tails). The pins and tails are dimensioned against one another, depending on which is made first.

With joints that do not meet a reference, that is, do not have a specific dimension such as a box, then go ahead and plane them to fit. All you are doing is referencing off a side rather than the length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Richards]

I have long wondered whom the original target was for the Stanley #51/52? My feeling is that it was the gentleman woodworker originally, or the "technically orientated" professional owing to its cost.
Derek

I think the intended target was more likely patternmakers and joinery shops - we didn't have one in the pattern shop where I worked for a while but it would have been useful. Patrick Leach also suggests they were used in the printing trade

[Jim Matthews]

Patrick Leach also suggests they were used in the printing trade

That's interesting.... what's the application in a print shop?
I'm appalled that these methods were not well known, or easily researched.

I feel as if we've thrown out years of ingenuity, and feel needlessly ignorant as a result.
(That, and I'm paying big money to learn the simple skills I would have acquired in shop class, had I only paid attention.)

[Chris Griggs]

I don't follow this. If you working to a reference, such as a drawer opening, the pin board (which fill the opening) must not change size. You are more likely to flush down sides (with the tails). The pins and tails are dimensioned against one another, depending on which is made first.

With joints that do not meet a reference, that is, do not have a specific dimension such as a box, then go ahead and plane them to fit. All you are doing is referencing off a side rather than the length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I think he's just saying that instead of marking the the baseline from the end of the board he strikes a square line. My guess is he he paying attention to the spacing between the shoulders/baseline. My impression is that he is still dimensioning to consistent sizes just not bothering to shoot end grain for cleanup purposes alone since you go back and flush up the endgrain of the pins and tails after the box is assembled.


EDIT: Oh!!! I just reread your post, i see what your getting at...flushing down the long gain on the sides not end grain. Ignore my above explanation... I misunderstood your query.... that would pose a problem for me as well (with drawers anyway)

[ian maybury]

Performance of the plane aside (and it seems likely per Derek's review that an angled blade in a well made tool contributes a lot to the performance of a shooting board) cast iron seems an expensive way of making a shooting board unless it adds something to its functionality.

It'd seem a pity to go that far without maximising the use of what is an expensive material. Fully exploited it should open up some additional possibilities, but it's not too clear which the LN unit delivers:

(a) Dimensional stability - presumably a given?

(b) Guidance of the plane - the adjustable outer rail on the LN unit that retains the plane looks useful.

(c) Low wear of the plane sole and the rubbing surface of the inner rail - is the LN set up metal to metal?

(d) Ability to maintain the vertical orientation of the sole of the plane - some ability to shim or pack the rails (rather than depending on the side of the plane being precisely square) might add something since all planes are not precisely square. Maybe even an adjustable angle set up if it could be made solid and reliable enough?

(e) Ability to accurately set and maintain the angle (in the horizontal plane) of the stop/cross fence - it'd help a lot if this was both finely adjustable, and if it could be accurately returned to a previous setting.

(f) Not sure how it would work out, but would an extended fence with the ability to clamp work to it while using a distance stop be useful?

(g) Supporting the downstream edge of the work to prevent blow out is an important part of the function of a traditional shooting board. This presumably requires the end face of the fence being set very close to the blade, but since it's metal it clearly can't touch it - wonder if the LN has a smart way to get around this issue?

There are no doubt more possibilities, perhaps (not sure how practical it might be) LH and RH flip over capability for example???

ian

[Harlan Barnhart]

That's interesting.... what's the application in a print shop?
I'm appalled that these methods were not well known, or easily researched.

I feel as if we've thrown out years of ingenuity, and feel needlessly ignorant as a result.
(That, and I'm paying big money to learn the simple skills I would have acquired in shop class, had I only paid attention.)
I think they were used to square up/prep lead blocks. I have seen planes of a similar design on ebay that were purpose made for shearing lead.

[george wilson]

Type was spaced out with wooden blocks called "furniture". Hammond,and some others made specialized table saws,some with sliding tables,to trim furniture to size. This shooting board could have some usefulness in trimming the wooden furniture.

We had a Hammond given to the toolmaker's shop years ago. Having absolutely no use for it,we traded it off,for what I can't recall. Years ago,guys would convert them to tilt so they would be useful as woodworking saws. That seems like a big job! These days,low cost imports have made the conversions obsolete,except perhaps for the "cool factor" of having a Hammond "slider". They were heavy duty little saws,but only about a 6" blade. They did have finely adjustable,screw adjusted miter gauges for getting the length of furniture just right. Their blade's teeth were swaged to have a set on both sides. I still have a few of these blades. The swaged teeth,though,just do not make a smooth,"polished" cut like modern carbide blades. They are VERY sharp blades,though.

The key word was "BASICALLY" about the LN planes being copies of Stanleys. The LN's are beefed up,and better made.

[David Posey]

I think he is refering to using them to square and even up the pages of books after they are bound. My wife has mentioned that planes are used for this several times in conjunction with asking me to build her a book press. I suppose you could use them for trimming up spacers but most shops had several different sizes of spacers already made that they would reuse.

[george wilson]

That would be an entirely different plane,David. A plough plane is used by book binders to even up the pages of books. I made the plough planes for the book bindery in Williamsburg,and for my wife,and for a bookbinder friend who went to Australia for a few years. My Wife was working in the book bindery when she first came to Williamsburg. Subsequently,she privately made nearly 1000 blank books for the stores there to sell.

[Jim Matthews]

Thanks fellahs, I was clueless.