Anyone sharpen a japanese pull saw?

[Zahid Naqvi]

I have a couple of Dozukis and am thinking about trying my hands at sharpening one of these. I have sharpened western back saws before and seem to have gotten decent results. I am going to get me a feather file, from LV, and see how it goes.

Any pointers or online instructions etc.

[Aaron Kline]

Ask Steve Cooke at www.cookessharpening.com (http://www.cookessharpening.com) He has sharpened a few before and he tells me they're tough. He'll be glad to give you pointers and talk about saws for a while.

[Alan Turner]

I think you may find that the saw metal is as hard as, or harder than, the file you will be using. I will be interested in learning how you do with this.

[Doug Shepard]

Cant tell you much about how to sharpen one. But several years ago I had to replace the blade on one that got bent (dont ask). I decided to make some small scrapers out of the blade and took it in to work to the metal shop. I figured those folks work with metal all the time and would have the right machinery to cut some rectangles out of it. I heard lots of comments like "What the xxxx is this stuff made of anyway?", "It's as hard as a rock", etc., etc. If I remember right, I think they ended up just using the bandsaw after trying the big shearing machine, and a few other things.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Japanese saws with replaceable blades do have extremely hard steel; but hand made are somewhat softer. You can probably sharpen the hand mades, but be careful of the angles. If you have a hand made and muck it up, you can always get Mark Grable (http://home.earthlink.net/~nokogiri/) to clean up things for you.

Pam

[Zahid Naqvi]

I think you may find that the saw metal is as hard as, or harder than, the file you will be using. I will be interested in learning how you do with this.

Alan, I really don't have much experience in this. But I sharpened a couple of western saws and it was not too hard. Had to be very careful with the angles etc. but overall not that complicated once you get the hang of it. Lee Valley sells a feather file for sharpening Japanese saws, and I have a saw which broke a tooth last week. So I thought what the heck the saw is wasted anyway, if the sharpening experiment doesn't work out I am out only $8.95. But if it does workout I may be able to save $30. I'll post results once I take a swing at it.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Pam, Aaron, thanks for the links, useful websites.

[Pam Niedermayer]

A $30 blade/saw from LV is most definitely a machine made version and will be too hard/brittle to sharpen, by anyone. Just replace the blade.

That said, one broken tooth doesn't ruin a saw.

Pam

[Mike Holbrook]

Here is a link to a Japanese saw maker who makes saws with quick change blades. http://www.silkystore.com/ Very nice handles.

The new Woodboy Dovetail saws are very nice. I have one and love it. http://www.silkystore.com/Secure/eCommerce/Catalog.asp?prdc=13

I believe their new saws cut on the push and pull stroke.

[Hal Flynt]

Once upon a time at one of those tool outlets, I spotted some diamond coated feather saw files (made for Japanese pull saws) and picked them up. I have an old Ryobi with interchangeable blade and thought, "why not try it?"

I had to put on one of those visor magnifiers to see the teeth well enough, but you can see the orientation of the tooth. All I did was take the appropriate sized diamond file and pulled 2 strokes per tooth and must say it cuts fine. If you look at the blade you also see a chisel shaped tip, BUT i did not try to sharpen that. This saw is my utility saw now.

So can you? Yes.

Is it worth it, probably not in the long run.

[Zahid Naqvi]

A $30 blade/saw from LV is most definitely a machine made version and will be too hard/brittle to sharpen, by anyone. Just replace the blade.

That said, one broken tooth doesn't ruin a saw.

Pam

I have the LV saw you refer, but don't see a replacement blade offered. The one I plan to attempt sharpening is a $18 from HF, with a broken tooth. It doesn't ruin the saw but certainly makes it bind during the cut and very annoying to use.

[Marc Hills]

I have a saw which broke a tooth last week. So I thought what the heck the saw is wasted anyway, if the sharpening experiment doesn't work out I am out only $8.95. But if it does workout I may be able to save $30.
I'm coming into this thread a little late, but I agree with Pam here.

I've broken 3 teeth so far on my LV dozuki, and if there is any difference in cutting efficiency, I sure as heck haven't noticed it. Besides, how are you going to fix it anyway? Joint all the teeth and start over? Let me be the first to tell you your time is worth far more than that, Zahid.

FYI: Japanese pull saws and hardboard (aka Masonite) don't mix. You live an learn.

[Dan Forman]

FYI: Japanese pull saws and hardboard (aka Masonite) don't mix. You live an learn.

Just curious, why not?

Dan

[Marc Hills]

Hi Dan:

That's how I lost the three teeth. Think about how tiny and thin the teeth are on a Japanese saw in comparison to those on a western saw. Their shape, combined with their much harder metalurgy (I've read in the vicinity of 70 on the Rockwell hardness scale) make them extremely brittle.

This isn't a problem on softwoods, but it can be when cutting extremely tough material, like very dense hardwoods and certain man-made wood products (to wit: hardboard).

Losing those teeth might also be partially explained by my technique at the time. I've since learned that you do not need to muscle the saw through the cut, very little downward pressure (pull stroke only) is required.

In spite of what happened, I very quickly got over my chagrin. As a percentage of the remaining teeth, the loss of just three had a negligible impact on the cutting performance.

So while neither the saw nor the operator can truthfully say they still have all their teeth, we both get along just fine, thank you very much.

[Pam Niedermayer]

LV sells a spineless dozuki specially made for plywood (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32939&cat=1,42884,42924), might be handy for hardboard, too. I used this when my crummy circular saw refused to cut.

Pam