Grinder advice

[Matthew N. Masail]

So all my plane blades need their primary bevel re-ground, now that I have an idea of how to sharpen and what I want...:o It’s been taking me forever on 80grit sandpaper (duh) and I haven't even
started with the HSS blades... So I have decided to get a grinder, and I have a few fundamental questions:

1. 8" or 6", does it really matter?

2. should I really spend the time looking for a slow-speed model? (first scout sees non)

3. is it worth trying to find a hand cranked model? why would I want one over a power model?

Pls remember I'm in Israel not the US.

[Chris Griggs]

1. 8" or 6", does it really matter?

Not in my opinion - I like my 6" porter cable just fine.

2. should I really spend the time looking for a slow-speed model? (first scout sees non)

- Only if you are set on an 8 inch. On a 6 inch it doesn't matter. Mine has an adjustable speed and I only ever use the highest setting. My opinion, don't bother looking if you don't require one.

3. is it worth trying to find a hand cranked model? why would I want one over a power model?

Not to me it wasn't. That's a personal preference kind of thing.

[Jim R Edwards]

I have a Delta and woodcraft 8 inch grinder. I have had issues with both of them. The varible speed on the Delta did not work well on mine. After a few minutes of use it would start to surge and run very hot. I disconnected the plug on the circuit board it only works on the fastest speed but it doesn't surge. It will get hot when I am using the wire wheel after about 15 minutes of use. Also, there is a design flaw with the Delta, the collar on the spindle shaft is very narrow and the washer does not seat well against it. I was going to replace the circuit board but the cheapest one I found was 81.00.

My Woodcraft is a slow speed 8 inch grinder and it does what it is suppose to do but I'm not sure about the quality of the grinder. I returned the first one I bought because it ran very hot, too hot to touch after I ground 4 chisels. The replacement grinder also runs hot after some use so I am going to assume that is normal. It works well when using it to establish a primary bevel and when it starts to get hot I shut it off.

[Christian Castillo]

If its all about grinding and you don't care about hollow grinding, I would suggest a 1x42" belt grinder. With a 46 grit belt, you would be surprised how fast metal is removed and how little a blade will get heated, you don't even need to dip the blade in water.

[Sam Takeuchi]

So all my plane blades need their primary bevel re-ground, now that I have an idea of how to sharpen and what I want...:o It’s been taking me forever on 80grit sandpaper (duh) and I haven't even
started with the HSS blades... So I have decided to get a grinder, and I have a few fundamental questions:

1. 8" or 6", does it really matter?

2. should I really spend the time looking for a slow-speed model? (first scout sees non)

3. is it worth trying to find a hand cranked model? why would I want one over a power model?

Pls remember I'm in Israel not the US.

Just to be a smart ass, I will say "I told you so!"

If you have HSS blade, forget hand cranked one. 8" slow speed grinder is already annoyingly slow, hand cranked will be even slower. You should be able to find a grinder. If there is a mechanic near you, they should have a grinder. If they have a grinder, you can get one locally. You don't need a fancy one really. As long as one doesn't wobble too much and runs relatively smooth, you can make it work.

If I were replacing my grinder, I'd go for a high speed 6". Slow speed 8" grinder can be really slow, annoyingly slow when working on HSS (for doing serious re-grinding).

[jamie shard]

I've had no regret about buying a Baldor combination grinder and 1x42 belt sander.

[David Weaver]

If price is an issue, 6" is just fine. Actually, it's what I'd choose anyway, but either a slow speed 8" or a full speed 6" should work nicely.

[Casey Gooding]

I bought an inexpensive Ryobi and replaced the gray wheels with 3M white wheels and a Veritas grinding rest.
I couldn't be happier.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Just to be a smart ass, I will say "I told you so!"

If you have HSS blade, forget hand cranked one. 8" slow speed grinder is already annoyingly slow, hand cranked will be even slower. You should be able to find a grinder. If there is a mechanic near you, they should have a grinder. If they have a grinder, you can get one locally. You don't need a fancy one really. As long as one doesn't wobble too much and runs relatively smooth, you can make it work.

If I were replacing my grinder, I'd go for a high speed 6". Slow speed 8" grinder can be really slow, annoyingly slow when working on HSS (for doing serious re-grinding).

LOL! I was wondering if anyone would remember that... :owhat can I say I blame it on being a newbie.. .. .. you guy's were totally right saying "but why...."

Casey, it's funny you say that because I just got another recommendation for the Ryobi on the Israeli forum, and it's reasonably priced.

I have plenty options here, just non that are low speed unless I want to spend 250$ on a knife sharpening grinder. I think it's settled then, the Ryobi 6" regular speed. don't see a point in pounding this one to death. I just need to wait for the guy to respond
and tell me if I can take the guards off. since I only need 1 grinding wheel; I want to turn the other one into a laminated mdf buffing wheel with green compound (using it's side like in Derek's belt sander) if there is a problem doing so, please alert my under experienced attention!

[Jim Neeley]

To reiterate Casey's post, the grinder just rotates... the grinding wheel does the work and the accuracy of the cut is greatly assisted by having a good tool rest. IMO, get a cheap grinder and a good wheel and rest.

I upgraded one of my "standard" wheels to white 120 grit and never went back. Then I upgraded to other one to a coarse (46 grit) Norton 3X and haven't gone back to the white one. One note of clarification: I do not do any "final sharpening" (i.e. turning tools) on my grinder, as I do not have a lathe. Perhaps if I had a lathe I'd consider one white and one coarse 3X. I'll leave it to those with turning or other tools used straight from the grinder to talk about whether the white 80 grit or 120 grit is a better choice.

Forthe rest you want an adjustable height and angle, plenty of support and ideally some mass (thick metal) to serve as a heat sink to help keep the cutter cool, reducing the need to dip the blade in water for cooling.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks! I also only want it for primary hollow ground bevels, not final sharpening. I plan on replacing the stone, 80grit is the coarsest I've seen here so far, but I think I'll make some calls first.
David Finck has a nice tool rest in his book and I plan to build something similar. heavy metal is not for me.

[Johnny Kleso]

I'd get a 46 grit H hardness white wheel

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Thanks! I also only want it for primary hollow ground bevels, not final sharpening. I plan on replacing the stone, 80grit is the coarsest I've seen here so far, but I think I'll make some calls first.
David Finck has a nice tool rest in his book and I plan to build something similar. heavy metal is not for me.

The only issue I've had with wooden tool rests, (and some of the aluminum ones that come with new grinders) is that loose grit can embed itself in the tool rest surface. It's why a lot of my narex chisels don't have the writing on the face anymore - the loose grit scratches away at the surface of the tool as you slide it back and forth. That's not really an issue, but if you've got something you want to keep smooth (like if you're grinding the profile of an iron in with the blade back on the rest, before doing the bevel, or if you're grinding something not a plane blade) those scratches can be annoying. I put some pieces of harder steel on one of my tool rests, it resists getting grit embedded in it a little better.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

Given your location, budget and experience, I would go for the 6" grinder. This will have a surface speed that is similar to a half-speed 8" grinder. And if I recall correctly, Israel uses 220 v and 50 cycles, which is similar to Australia and the UK. The motor will spin slightly slower than a US version (1400 vs 1750). Use a 36/46 grit white Norton wheel, or equivalent.

Using the side of a MDF wheel for buffing (I assume that you will add a layer of leather, such as chamois, to the face) is do-able. This will run at the same speed as the disk sander.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Don Jarvie]

A reason for the 8 inch not mentioned is the hollow grind will be wider so you will not have to sharpen them as often.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks everyone! I picked up a 6 inch grinder today... it's a beauty (-: now just to find a suitable wheel.... would 80 grit be serviceable? that is what I've found so far. is a lower grit worth ordering one from the US/UK? honestly I don't mind doing that if it's worth it.

[David Weaver]

You can get by with an 80 grit wheel, especially if it's something friable. I used one for about 2 years. A 46-grit wheel is nicer to have, though, if you're comparing wheels with similar friability.

[Sam Takeuchi]

You should be able to find lower grit wheels, I'm sure. Even in Russia, you can easily find those at most any hardware stores. If you order a wheel from the US, be mindful of arbor size. You might need an adapter to use one. In woodworking circle, 1" width wheel seems to be the most popular choice or at least that's the impression I get, but for the metric world folks, most common grinder wheels seem to be 19mm and I almost never see a grinder built to accommodate 1" wide wheel by design. Some grinders have arbor and thread long enough to stick one in, but some don't. So just remember that.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Sam those are some good points to check out

[Chris Griggs]

Thanks Sam those are some good points to check out

You can get buy with just about any wheel as long as you keep it dressed. I'm still using the 46 grit gray wheel that came on mine. Ideal is something course and friable (46 white or blue). Failing that I'm sure even if you can't find a white or blue wheel easily, you should be able to find a 46 or 60 grit gray wheel wheel with no problem.

My preference is definitely for a 46 (a 60 came with mine also) and when I replace it I might go with 36.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks, I think that I'm going to try find a Norton 3X 46 grit... maybe ask a dealer to bring one in for me. from what I read around it's worth it for the speed and slower heat build-up.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

The 3X wheel is very friable, and good to learn on. It runs cool and the steel will be safe from damage. However it is very messy, and after a while you will prefer the white Norton wheel. 36 grit will run coolest, but I use a 46.

It is tempting to seek out the widest wheel you can use. I use Joel's method, which involves a cambered front. You do not need a wide wheel for this since you are grinding on a small area. Indeed, a narrow wheel (about 1/2") should work very well. There is a lot more control here than with a wide, flat face.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi Derek,


Thanks for telling me that! for some reason I thought it was harder... should I look for a certain grade of white wheel are does this not matter?


Matthew

[Bill White]

I'll really throw ya a curve. I have a 7" old Craftsman/Dayton 3450 grinder. Since we're talkin' about 6" an 8", does this make me average? :)
Bill

[Sean Richards]

You can get buy with just about any wheel as long as you keep it dressed..

+1

Don't think you HAVE to buy new wheels for your grinder - its the guy standing in front of the grinder that is the most important factor

[Derek Cohen]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chris Griggs http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1985158#post1985158)
You can get buy with just about any wheel as long as you keep it dressed..
Don't think you HAVE to buy new wheels for your grinder - its the guy standing in front of the grinder that is the most important factor

I would support both these statements. However, it takes a little experience to be proficient. Even a hard grey wheel is doable when one has learned a light touch. Until then, a friable wheel helps enormously to avoid little disasters. Do everything you can to ensure the grinder works efficiently: keep the wheels clean and dunk the blade in water very frequently.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

I also recommend a 46 grit white wheel. Buy a Norton,DO NOT buy the cheaper "Camel"(or whatever) off brand wheels. They wear out too fast. When I get the blade thin,I dip the blade in water,and as soon as the water sizzles off the edge,instantly dip it again. Usually,this is every 2 seconds when the edge is really getting thin. A good white wheel will save many hours over a gray one. I grew up with gray wheels. Getting my first white one was a BIG help!!.

I do NOT advocate the use of the power strop. Stropping should be done after the finest bench stone is used,and only done a MINIMAL amount. Otherwise,you round your edge over.

[Chris Griggs]

I also recommend a 46 grit white wheel.

Where can I get one of these? The coarsest whites I see online are 60 grit.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I also see only 60 grit too. here http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-White-Grinding-Wheel-P38C20.aspx

has anyone tried this dresser http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Diamond-Multi-Point-Dresser-P41C20.aspx ?

[Matthew N. Masail]

I also recommend a 46 grit white wheel. Buy a Norton,DO NOT buy the cheaper "Camel"(or whatever) off brand wheels. They wear out too fast. When I get the blade thin,I dip the blade in water,and as soon as the water sizzles off the edge,instantly dip it again. Usually,this is every 2 seconds when the edge is really getting thin. A good white wheel will save many hours over a gray one. I grew up with gray wheels. Getting my first white one was a BIG help!!.

I do NOT advocate the use of the power strop. Stropping should be done after the finest bench stone is used,and only done a MINIMAL amount. Otherwise,you round your edge over.

I understand. I plan to use it between honing/sharpening sessions and I'll use only MDF not leather. in any case I'm planning a sharpening station so going back to the stones will be as easy as stropping. I can't do anything otherwise it's just too annoying.

[Trevor Walsh]

Mcmaster.com has white 46 grit nortons in 7" and 8" diameters.

[Mike Siemsen]

I use an 8 inch high speed grinder with a 46 grit gray wheel. whichever grit you use be sure to dress the wheel. Dressing the wheel causes the wheel to run true, it also presents fresh sharp grit, sharp grit produces less heat because the sparks you see coming from the grinding operation are removing heat from the object being ground. the smoother your wheel, either because it is too fine or needs to be dressed, the more oportunity there is to burn the tool. don't grind non-ferrous metals as they only plug up the wheel. If you have a 6 and an 8 inch grinder you can move the stones from the 8 to the 6 when they get too small. Or find a friend to pass them on to or get them from. When they get too small save them, when you get enough you can build a church like Disston did.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I use an 8 inch high speed grinder with a 46 grit gray wheel. whichever grit you use be sure to dress the wheel. Dressing the wheel causes the wheel to run true, it also presents fresh sharp grit, sharp grit produces less heat because the sparks you see coming from the grinding operation are removing heat from the object being ground. the smoother your wheel, either because it is too fine or needs to be dressed, the more oportunity there is to burn the tool. don't grind non-ferrous metals as they only plug up the wheel. If you have a 6 and an 8 inch grinder you can move the stones from the 8 to the 6 when they get too small. Or find a friend to pass them on to or get them from. When they get too small save them, when you get enough you can build a church like Disston did.

mmmm.... what ? think I'm missing some history here

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to buy a wheel today.