Removing chemicals/paint from factory reclaimed Heart Pine

[Dave Neely]

Hi all. I am extremely new to woodworking so please bear with me. I have decided to make a table top and I have a few questions. I purchased some reclaimed old-growth tongue and groove heart pine. The boards are 4.25 inches thick and 7 inches wide and were used as flooring in an old (~1890s) cotton factory. Beautiful wood from what I can tell, but has some issues.

My questions are as follows:

1) Lead paint. As you can see, the boards have some white paint on them which I am fairly confident is lead paint. My current thoughts on how I would remove the paint would be to just use a planer, since I plan on planing off at least 1/4 inch off the top and bottom of the boards (maybe even more since they are so thick.) I would work outside, use a respirator, and put down plastic. Does that sound like an acceptable/safe plan?

2) Chemical coating. As you can also see in the pictures (black stuff on the boards), the boards have some sort of dark oil chemical soaked into them. The guy I bought it from thought it was cotton-seed oil, which it could be, but it smells like some sort of factory chemical and im thinking it is likely carcinogenic. (and the smell is pretty bad.) My plan for this is similar to the paint in that I am thinking the 1/4 inch planing should take care of whatever this chemical is. However, I am guessing I wont be able to get rid of all of it (it is inside the tongue and groove, which I likely wont be refinishing in any way, as that is beyond my skill level). So I was thinking a few coats of poly would protect me from whatever remaining chemicals might be inside the wood. Thoughts/advice would be welcome.

For both of the above: the oil/paint is on the inner edge of the boards as well (third picture shows this). Can I plane the inner edge of the board without screwing up the tongue-and-groove? If so, how much?

Edit: I am concerned that the chemical might be creosote. Any idea if it is? If so - am I safe in cutting away the top half inch or so? It doesnt look like it goes that deep.

Assuming the above two can be done safely, I would really like to use these boards and I'd love to hear your advice regarding finishes (below the poly that I will likely use to avoid any chemical exposure, that is).

Thank you for your help!241574241567241568241569241570

[Scott Holmes]

Planing is how I would tackle this project.

Caution: planing just one side could cause the beams to warp, you may want to plane equal amounts from top and bottom. I know they are very thick but warping is still a possiblity.

Any chemicals, oils or smells that remain can be sealed in with de-waxed shellac. Zinsser Seal coat at the big box stores is de-waxed shellac. Then you can safely top coat, without the shellac the poly may not stick it may never cure.

FYI: there are better and harder varnishes than polyurethane varnish. Tables are better served with a harder varnish, unless people will be dancing on the table then poly is a good choice. :)

[Todd Burch]

I would resaw off the outer 1/2" where painted or contaminated. Better yet, find someone else to resaw off the 1/2". ;)

A pallet manufacturer in your area might have a resaw, or a sawmill.

[Todd Burch]

You didn't say what you would be using the boards for, or if you would be resawing them down into thinner boards. You also didn't say how many you had. 2? A tractor trailer load?

Why are you wanting to preserve the tongue and groove?



Planing is how I would tackle this project.

Caution: planing just one side could cause the beams to warp, you may want to plane equal amounts from top and bottom. I know they are very thick but warping is still a possiblity.
...


Scott, I think your general comment about considerations for warping after planing one side is is valid. OP already said he would plane both sides. With due respect, I personally would consider it an impossibility to remove paint by planing these pieces 1/4" down and cause a 4 1/4" heart pine BEAM to warp.

Regardless... lead paint + planing = bad idea, regardless.

[Todd Burch]

creosote + planing = worse idea.

[Mel Fulks]

If your planer will take off 1/8 inch on one pass and has a fast speed I would go that way to remove the paint .If the planer is of the lighter type that only removes about a 1/32 inch, I'd get someone else to remove it. Before long leaf pine got its rarity by being used up on rudimentary things it was almost always painted or left unfinished . What I would do is hand plane the top,NO SANDING, then keep it well waxed. That is a nice look and an appropriate look for your nice pine.

[Dave Neely]

You didn't say what you would be using the boards for, or if you would be resawing them down into thinner boards. You also didn't say how many you had. 2? A tractor trailer load?

Why are you wanting to preserve the tongue and groove?




Scott, I think your general comment about considerations for warping after planing one side is is valid. OP already said he would plane both sides. With due respect, I personally would consider it an impossibility to remove paint by planing these pieces 1/4" down and cause a 4 1/4" heart pine BEAM to warp.

Regardless... lead paint + planing = bad idea, regardless.

I am using the boards as a table top, and would like to keep the tongue and groove so that I can glue them together easily (and I like the look). I have 4 pieces, each is 69" long/7" wide. I am not cutting them into thinner boards. They are 4.25 inches thick right now, and I am aiming on my table top being ~3.25-3.5 inches thick. (thus the planing).

As to just taking it to a sawmill - I took it to a guy I know who has one and he said that unseen nails would make it a bad idea and I was better off using a small planer. Seems like there is some disagreement about whether planing will work...

[Dave Neely]

creosote + planing = worse idea.

Can you elaborate? Why is this a bad idea and what else could I do?

[Scott Holmes]

after further consideration I like the resawing approach best... if you have access to a large bandsaw...

You can check for nails with a device made for that purpose.

[Todd Burch]

It'll screw your planer up. If it is creosote, and I don't think it is, unless it was painted (or spilled) on, it was impregnated into the wood with a vacuum process. For a floor, there would be no point in creosote treating long leaf pine. Creosote is like tar. You would never clean your planer of it, and it would always smell.

Yes, there might be embedded nail - a metal detector would tell you that. And, his band mill would saw right through it, whereas your planer would need new knives, as it would immediately be converted into a moulder instead of a planer. How much are your planer knives? What planer do you have? A bandsaw blade for a portable mill costs about $28 and can cut through several nails before it gets unusable. "Hitting nails" is part of sawing logs for a sawmill (and a common excuse to turn work away they don't want to do).

Got a band saw? Put it in the driveway, downwind, and saw away.

You'll be taking 3/4 - 1" off. Why turn that into sawdust? Obviously you are free to do anything you want. I'm just telling you how I would approach (and not approach) the task.

[Dave Neely]

What about starting with a coat of naphtha or goof off / mineral spirits before planing? Would that work?

[Mel Fulks]

You can keep the tongue and groove and groove,just scrape clean and coat that area with shellac to lock in any odors. Planing does indeed work,most will run metal detector over it first. Almost all of the long leaf pine sold has been reclaimed. I would not hesitate to plane it IF THERE IS A DUST COLLECTOR. Then send the bag to the dump. I have not heard of any in the industry taking any extraordinary precautions over the little bit of lead compared to shavings. The only other two options would be an unending task of gathering permission and permits. Or just taking the wood to the dump with the paint on it. A forum in for ideas NOT consensus. I have been involved in this stuff for decades. As I said in a recent post it would be helpful for those seeking advice to report back on what they decided and how well it worked.

[Dave Neely]

It'll screw your planer up. If it is creosote, and I don't think it is, unless it was painted (or spilled) on, it was impregnated into the wood with a vacuum process. For a floor, there would be no point in creosote treating long leaf pine. Creosote is like tar. You would never clean your planer of it, and it would always smell.

Yes, there might be embedded nail - a metal detector would tell you that. And, his band mill would saw right through it, whereas your planer would need new knives, as it would immediately be converted into a moulder instead of a planer. How much are your planer knives? What planer do you have? A bandsaw blade for a portable mill costs about $28 and can cut through several nails before it gets unusable. "Hitting nails" is part of sawing logs for a sawmill (and a common excuse to turn work away they don't want to do).

Got a band saw? Put it in the driveway, downwind, and saw away.

You'll be taking 3/4 - 1" off. Why turn that into sawdust? Obviously you are free to do anything you want. I'm just telling you how I would approach (and not approach) the task.

Regarding how this chemical (whatever it is) got into the wood, my understanding is that this wood was the flooring on the second floor of the building - so the painted side was the floor of the second floor, and the black/soot covered side was the ceiling of the first level. So I assume whatever got on the wood from the bottom is from some sort of smoke etc rising to the ceiling if that makes sense.

Edit: It could also be the exact opposite of this, where the painted side was the ceiling. I am not sure. Either way my point is I dont think this substance was intended to be coated - but rather it happened as a by-product of whatever was being done.

[Todd Burch]

I would agree with that assessment.

[Mel Fulks]

Dave, I have carefully read all your posts .I noticed that in the beginning you said you were going to take off a quarter inch or more .Decide how thick you want the table and proceed from there . I you want a table as much as an 1 1/2 thiner than your stock resawing is justified .If you want it thicker I would proceed with metal detector and planer IF your planer comes up to the two criteria I posted before. To make sure I'm clear ,you need to take off 1/8 in ONE FAST PASS to minimize knife damage. After removing the paint (and I think it is just paint) you will want to change knives . Your planer will still be fine . There is no value in trying to chemically soften or remove the paint, unless you decide you don't want to plane the material at all.

[Dave Neely]

UPDATE:

After a few hours of denailing and scrubbing the blackened side, I am really excited at how good these boards are looking (see pics). The black soot mostly came off with some elbow grease and a steel brush - leaving a beautiful red stain. (maybe it was cotton oil after all? Or maybe it was cotton oil and something else). It looks so good I almost hesitate to plane it off, but I think I can achieve a similar look with tung oil/BLO if I want.

I am thinking for the lead side that I will just use a chemical stripper first and get as much as I can off first, because it is extremely flaky right now and I'm thinking the planing will cause a lot of debris/dust.

Suggestions and input are welcome.

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[Mel Fulks]

If that means you don't have a dust collection system, please wear a dust mask. That is nice looking pine .Good luck!

[Tony Joyce]

"because it is extremely flaky right now and I'm thinking the planing will cause a lot of debris/dust.

Suggestions and input are welcome."

Try pressure washing, before stripping. Should help a lot.

Tony

[Scott Holmes]

Talk the wife into the rustic look, seal it with shellac and you're done!

You have some really nice looking old pine there Dave.

[Dave Neely]

Thanks Scott. I'm curious - after I plane it, if I want to regain a similar look as the pictures above (darker/reddish look), what would you use? Just shellac? Two things concern me with that: 1) The table top is likely to get a good amount of wear and tear - is shellac alone enough protection? and 2) I would like a matte finish (I gather shellac can be sanded to a matte finish so perhaps this isnt an issue). Also, would you put some epoxy or something in the nail holes prior to the shellac?

[Scott Holmes]

Dewaxed garnet shellac would get you close... colorwise. then I would top coat with a good varnish.

IMHO poly is not a good varnish, unless you need extreme abraision resistence, e.g. a FLOOR.

A phenolic resin varnish will also give you about the same color and is much harder than the poly. Behlen's Rockhard Table Top varnish and Waterlox are both phenolic resin varnishes. If you have a choice of either, I would use the Waterlox Original it's available in gloss and satin. I give the advantage to the Waterlox because it's made from tung oil and tung oil's real claim to fame is; that varnish made from tung oil is more waterproof than varnish made from linseed oil.

[Scott Connell]

Hi Dave,
I recently posted a similar thread regarding some reclaimed Cypress I purchased before I knew it was saturated with some sort of industrial solution/lubricant. The main recommended solution to my issue was also Shellac, but I also wanted to give you a quick "head's up" regarding planing the material.

I have a Delta lunchbox planer (the portable kind with fold up tables), that I hook up to a dust collector. When I planed the wood, whatever solution is in the wood ended up gumming up the internal mechanism of the planer. Not a huge deal since it could be easily cleaned....but if there is still a dampness to the wood, just be prepared for the shavings the planer creates to want to stick to the inside of the tool (knives, etc). Also, the smell of whatever was in my wood wasn't too pleasant and if you are using dust collection, your dust collector may emit that smell for awhile, especially if the shavings aren't emptied out of the catcher.

I haven't use the shellac yet, but am confident that it will seal out the smell as it is consistently recommended for this purpose by the experts on this site.

Good luck.

[Dave Neely]

Thanks for the heads up Scott. I am going to try and avoid planing if possible and just get someone with a larger saw to cut the gunk off. Hopefully that takes care of the smell etc. Let me know how yours turns out after shellac.

[Jason Steward]

In my experienced opinion, To remove the paint use a citrus based stripper, but still use a respirator. Don't mess around with mechanical means, you'll just spread the lead around even if you have great dust collection, because it will contaminate your dust collection system. I would be concerned with the oil that has penetrated the wood. No telling what was used in what ever manufacturing process that the wood was exposed to. Not knowing can be extremely detrimental to your health.

[Dave Neely]

Hey all - I have an update and a quick question re: finishing. Update is that I had the boards taken and resawn. The issue now is that the wood underneith is pretty bare pine (ie no patina) - and some boards are a bit more yellow (have more resin) and some have some sap wood - whereas others are more of a salmon color w/ all heartwood - so I am a bit concerned about finishing. I am still considering just getting color from garnet shellac / waterlox - but after looking at some pictures im not entirely convinced. I would like to consider doing a stain (with a conditioner, or maybe a washcoat of shellac), and then maybe waterlox.

Regarding the stain option - I have a few looks I am considering and I just dont know how to achieve them, so here are some pictures (id love to hear input on how best to get a similar look).

First look would be some red/brown/amber combination, similar to what I wanted with garnet shellac. ( examples: http://www.krantzrecoveredwoods.com/CustomerPhotos.aspx?uid=c7ee9e9a-5c3f-4bd1-be44-b6f81e51c582&page=9 ; http://www.flickr.com/photos/43364301@N06/6786004047/ ; http://beingbrook.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/teendesk4-1024x681.jpg ; http://www.performafloor.com/pics/misc/slides/Stained%20Heart%20Pine.jpg)

The other option would be a bit more natural/grain enhancing (examples: http://tonystefan.com/img/reclaimed-heart-pine-shelf-2.jpg ; http://pushhardlumber.com/wp-content/gallery/other-tables/heart-pine-sofa-table.jpg ) With this option, I am a bit worried about the boards looking very different (between boards, as well as between heart/sapwood on one of them), as well as the more yellow/resin-filled board.

For the first look I was thinking of using a stain (provincial, maybe mixed with some english chestnut - assuming minwax), and then satin waterlox. For the second maybe tung oil or BLO and then amber/garnet shellac and/or colored wax...

For either option: I have no idea what to do with the end grain (which will be prominent given the thickness of my boards) and would appreciate suggestions. (I gather end grain has a tendency to over-darken?)

Anyway, Id love input / suggestions. Id like whatever finish to stay consistent with the reclaimed look (close to the wood, satin) but provide some level of protection - and to match the frame, which is going to be black steel (probably matte). Thanks!

[Randy Goodhew]

Dewaxed garnet shellac would get you close... colorwise. then I would top coat with a good varnish.

IMHO poly is not a good varnish, unless you need extreme abraision resistence, e.g. a FLOOR.

A phenolic resin varnish will also give you about the same color and is much harder than the poly. Behlen's Rockhard Table Top varnish and Waterlox are both phenolic resin varnishes. If you have a choice of either, I would use the Waterlox Original it's available in gloss and satin. I give the advantage to the Waterlox because it's made from tung oil and tung oil's real claim to fame is; that varnish made from tung oil is more waterproof than varnish made from linseed oil.

This is the current product.

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[Scott Holmes]

Interesting...

Looks as though Behlen's has added a new product. I will need to specify the Behlen's Rockhard Table Top Varnish as apposed to the Behlen's Rockhard Table Top Urethane Varnish.

Found this on the internet:
NEW
! Rockhard™ Table Top Urethane
Varnish (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/SelectItems.html#table varnish)


I hope the old formula is still available... If not I will no longer use nor recommend it. I noticed the price went down... HMMMM wonder if that has anything to do with it? Urethane resin varnishes are MUCH cheaper to make.