Just a plane question?

[Bob Yarbrough]

I'm at the point where I have this need to buy my first planes. Been playing with dovetail joints and was told that a good block plane would be very helpful on endgrain work. I was also told that with practice I could edge boards for glue joints as well with a plane as a jointer. The question is the search for the differences in the Veritas & Lie Nielsen planes. Are they equal in quality? What would be a good "starter" pair of planes? Perferences and experiences requested.

thanks

[Roy Wall]

Bob,

2 planes..........hmmmm.........

THe LN's:

60 1/2 -R (LA block/rabbet plane) will --trim endgrain, DT pins, tenon cheeks/shoulders, and make chamfers,rabbets...

#62 LA Jack will --flatten, trim endgrain, smooth, and joint edges for glueing

I don't have any LV planes..........yet:cool:

[Tom Scott]

Bob,
You will most likely get a lot of input on this. Until it comes, though, you might try searching the archives for this very same question as it comes up often.
My list of preferred start planes would include, based on what you have said, would be:
- Low angle block plane
- #4 or #4 1/2 (my preference) smoothing plane
- #5 or #6 jack plane
- #7 or #8 jointer

These bench planes will definitely get you going and allow you to do just about any chore until you start getting into the more specialized planes.

As to the differences between L-N and Veritas, they are mostly subjective. Both offer excellent performance and will last you forever. IMO, people who favor L-N generally prefer the aesthetics and think it's a "prettier" tool. And, people who prefer the Veritas usually prefer the fact that they can get a high performance tool at a less expensive price. Again, both offer excellent tools that work great...so it comes down to your preferences.

Tom

[Tim Sproul]

For what you posted, my suggestions are:

Lee Valley low angle smoother for fitting drawers (dovetailed or not). The LA part is good if you leave the endgrain a bit proud and is quite good for most drawer stock - unfigured hard maple, oaks and poplar in my case. I like having a two-handed plane for trimming drawers to fit rather than a single handed block plane.

Knight plane for edge jointing. Ask Steve to make you a 30+ inch long plane....2 or 3 inch wide iron depending on if you want it for 6/4 or thinner or 10/4 or thinner stock. Stop fooling around with wimpy little metal jointer planes.......

[Steve Wargo]

I'm anti Low angle plane (except for end grain). So for general purposes I sugest a #5 and a Low andgle block plane. The low angle blockplane can be used for end grain, and the 5 is long enough to joint anything less than 4' and will do just fine on fitting drawers. That's if your only buying to planes. There is no finer low angle block plane then the LN 60 1/2.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

For what you want to do, I think you've been given some good advice. I don't think you can go wrong with either a LN or LV block plane. My suggestion would be try them out in person if you can before you buy. I own the LV low angle block plane and the LN 60-1/2R rabbet block plane. I prefer the feel of the LN because it fits my hand better, but both plane preform great. I would recommend the LV LA jack plane for your other plane. With an extra high angle blade, it is a very versatile plane. In my experience, I've found it easier to setup than a standard bevel down bench plane. As a bonus, Lee Valley is planning to release two more bevel down (LA) planes this year, a heavy smoother and a jointer, that will share a common blade size with the LA jack plane.

Wendell

[Jerry Palmer]

I'll probably catch some flak for this, but . . . :) Overall, the LN planes are pretty much duplications of the old Stanleys, the bench models being modeled after the Stanley Bedrock line. Nothing wrong with that as they, and their copycats, were the workhorses of their times. Metal improvements as well as improvements in the mechanisms have been incorporated into the LNs. Thicker cryo blades vastly improve them over the Stanley models from days of yore.

The LVs were basically redisigned from the ground up and have some benefits in some models that are not available elsewhere such as tilting knobs on the shoulder planes allowing you to get a more comfortable grip in different situations.

Of course, there are still a lot of old Stanleys out their that can be had, rehabbed, and put to good use. Bedrocks and some of the specialty vintage planes can be quite pricey and in some cases you can get a new LN cheaper, to say nothing of a similar LV generally coming in a bit cheaper still.

Like previously mentioned, a LA block (or one of the newer LA bench size planes can pull double duty here) for end grain work. As to a second plane . . . that's gonna depend.

As to edge jointing with a hand plane, you can get excellent results, but that will add a couple planes to your arsenal to be really time effective. You'll need something a bit shorter than a jointer to get the edge close, then the jointer to get it right.

Another option (they'll string me up for this one) is to continue using your tailed jointer to get the joint you are used to, then use a finish plane to take the almost invisible humps and valleys left by the tailed one off. Talk about disappearing an edge joint.

[Bob Yarbrough]

Thanks for the info! Got my Lie flyer in the mail today and now I'm waiting on my Lee flyer.

[Mark Singer]

I have both LN and Veritas....both excellent! The LV Lowangle jack is a winner. The LV Med shoulder anotherr great. Fron LN I like the 60 1/2 block .the 164 and the 102 are all great...

[Mike Holbrook]

One point regarding LA planes. You can buy two plane irons for a LA plane and have a plane which, with a quick blade change, can do dual duty. The LA planes with LA blades usually do better in softer woods. If you buy a higher angle iron for the LA plane you have the ability to work harder woods.

LV offers LA plane irons ground to make them a 50 degree York pitch. The York pitch is great for hard & difficult grains. LN also has options in their plane irons. Of course any LA plane iron can be reground to whatever angle may serve your purposes.

[Joseph N. Myers]

Check out this month's FWW (June 2005), Tool Test, "Metal Smoothing Planes", pages 73-79. Looks like a real good article covering "ten planes, four different designs between $30 and $300". I know nothing about planes so can't comments on contents.

Regards, Joe

[Chris Thompson]

Thanks for the info! Got my Lie flyer in the mail today and now I'm waiting on my Lee flyer.


I had to stop getting the Lee Valley catalogs. The wife doesn't like pornography in the house :)

[Jerry Palmer]

I keep my LV catalog hidden in the shop for exactly that reason. :D

[Rob Lee]

(snip) As a bonus, Lee Valley is planning to release two more bevel down (LA) planes this year, a heavy smoother and a jointer, that will share a common blade size with the LA jack plane.

Wendell

Hi Wendell -

All correct - 'cept for the part where you said "bevel down (LA)" ....that should be "Bevel-up" ...

The Bevel-up heavy Smooth is on the mills now - and will be in the June catalog, the jointer will be fall....

Cheers -

Rob

[Rob Lee]

Hi Mike -

There'll also be two additional blades available in June (looks like)...a 50 degree bevel, and a toothing blade....

Cheers -

Rob

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Hi Mike -

There'll also be two additional blades available in June (looks like)...a 50 degree bevel, and a toothing blade....

Cheers -

Rob


Good catch on the bevel-up and bevel-down mix-up. My hands don't always type what my brain tells them to type. Interesting info about the new blades. I understand using a 50 degree bevel to give a total cutting angle of 62 degrees for use on really nasty grain I suppose. What is the purpose of the toothing blade?

As a hijack of this topic, what was the verdict on the casting for the new honing guide? Any chance it will be available by Father's Day? Last year, my wife and daughter bought me the bevel-up Jack for Father's Day. I did like to start a tradition of receiving Lee Valley tools every Father's Day. I guess if the honing guide isn't ready, I could settle for the new heavy bevel-up smoother :D

Wendell

[Ed Hardin]

Aw Mannnnn! Rob Lee would just have to chime in about the new planes. I am eternally grateful that my wife does not read this forum.

[Rob Lee]

Hi Wendell -

A few quick answers...

Toothing blade - usually used to provide "tooth", or a better suface for gluing, some use it when planing as a visual aid - like scribbling with a crayon to mark high and low spots... then switch to a regular blade and remove 'em. Some say it also helps to do this when dimensioning wilder grain woods - but I have no personal experience with that (so far)!

The Honing guide castings turned out great.... (can you sense the "But" coming...)...

...what we're trying to sort out now is the finish...it's a combination of plating and anodizing, and it wears off pretty quickly.... we're trying to figure out options here...

I can give you a spy shot of the first castings though....

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/hg1_side3.jpg

Planned availabilty is still late May - as it's on the back cover of the catalog mailing May 23rd....

Cheers -

Rob

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Thanks for the preview of pic of the honing guide. It looks like a serious tool now. The colors in the renderings made it look like a kids toy :p

Wendell