Recommendations for a "Cost Effective" way to flatten waterstones, please...

[Harold Burrell]

I'm looking for a cheap way to flatten my King waterstones (I guess that is the best way to ask). I cannot bring myself to spend $100+ on a diamond stone. So...I am looking for suggestions.

I am quite new to the whole "stone thing" anyway. What I have been using is a 1/2 sheet of glass with sandpaper and a honing guide along with a work sharp 3000. That stuff has been OK, but I wanted to add to my arsenal. So...I recently acquired a set of King stones. An 800/4000 combo and a 6000. I'm thinking that I may need to go higher for a final polish??? Or is what I have good if I follow up with, say, a leather wheel?

By the way...I am looking to sharpen chisels and plane blades primarily.

Any and all suggestions will be welcome. Thanks. :o

[Bill White]

I don't get caught up in the somewhat obsessive quest for surgical sharpness on my planes and chisels. With the stones you have and a leather stropping wheel or paddle you will get very good results.
I sharpen for a local kitchen supply store using a Makita water stone wheel, diamond paddles, and leather stropping. Never had a "call-back" (yet).
Remember that you're cutting wood.
I flatten my water stones with wet/dry sandpaper and a piece of granite as a surface plate.
Bill

[Steve Friedman]

You don't have to spend over $100 to get a diamond plate. Stu sells the iWood #300 for $52 (plus shipping) that has received very positive reviews. I have never tried to flatten waterstones with sandpaper, but before you do, you may want to look at this thread from last year:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?175329-How-do-you-flatten-Japanese-Water-Stones

Seems like loose grit may be better than sandpaper. Messy, but even cheaper than sandpaper.

I have never tried the suggestion, but I do recall a post by Derek some time ago about using drywall screen instead of sandpaper to flatten stones.

Good luck,

Steve

[Mel Fulks]

Bill,you haven't gotten caught up YET. Don't think you won't be .This sharpening stone thing is one more remake of "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers". I recently posted about the overkill of the thing,now I'm in the lab categorizing ,examining grit samples under the microscope, figuring specific gravity,corresponding with others of our kind....My wife slides my meals under the door.

[Christian Thompson]

I got a 3x8 diamond stone off lee valley for $52 (and free shipping right now!). Personally, I am really glad I did - I find it much faster and less messy than trying to use sandpaper.

Christian

[David Weaver]

Wet and dry sandpaper is fine for kings. Actually works quite well with them. 180 or 220 should do the whole lot of them just fine.

[Chad Bender]

I've got a granite reference plate (Woodcraft, $25 a few years back) and use it with wet/dry sandpaper from the auto parts store. That solution works fast and is quite a lot cheaper than $100.

[paul cottingham]

Plate glass from LV http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=33017&cat=1,43072 and grit. Works great, and around $50.00.

[Jorge Rico]

Harold,
I use the flat face of an 8" x 8" x 16" CMU block. Make sure you pre soak the waterstones and keep the face of the block really wet. Afterwards, rinse the waterstones to remove any concrete grit. I've been doing this for years on plane and chisel blades without any problems and without getting scratch marks on the face of the stones.
Hope this helps.

[David Weaver]

Bill,you haven't gotten caught up YET. Don't think you won't be .This sharpening stone thing is one more remake of "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers". I recently posted about the overkill of the thing,now I'm in the lab categorizing ,examining grit samples under the microscope, figuring specific gravity,corresponding with others of our kind....My wife slides my meals under the door.

Uh oh...that sounds like a disorder!

[Andrew Teich]

I also purchased that kit of King Stones that Rockler offers. I later added an 8000 King from LV. I also built a leather strop and use simichrome polish as was recommended on one of the threads here. I think you can be plenty sharp enough going from the 6000 to the strop. I was able to pick up a DMT D8C, the 3"x8" Coarse, from weldwarehouse for 37 at the time. They have a local location so I saved on shipping but a quick google search for "DMT D8C" brings up some options that'll ship to you for under 50 bucks. I think the Coarse works fine although sometimes I wonder if an Extra Coarse would make lapping the stones just a little quicker. Once I wear out the 800 grit side of the 800/4000 I think I'll use a Diamond stone on the steel for the rough stuff and then switch to the stones.

[Sean Richards]

Wet and dry sandpaper is fine for kings. Actually works quite well with them. 180 or 220 should do the whole lot of them just fine.

+1

I have used the King waterstones for a long time and sandpaper on a flat surface works just fine

[Sean D Evans]

I was waiting for the cinder block answer.
I first started reading this forum in 2006 and that was the answer i always heard to this question. I was away until earlier this year and have been amazed by how much more sofisticated the sharpening discussions have become.

[Bruce Haugen]

+1

I have used the King waterstones for a long time and sandpaper on a flat surface works just fine

So have I, and the W/D paper on glass works just fine. To flatten the coarse stone you can also try drywall screen on glass. It is much faster than normal paper, even the coarse stuff.

[Mel Fulks]

I'm still using the old Ronco Adjustable LapA Stone.You remember....that was the one that clamped onto your cars bumper.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Bill,you haven't gotten caught up YET. Don't think you won't be .This sharpening stone thing is one more remake of "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers". I recently posted about the overkill of the thing,now I'm in the lab categorizing ,examining grit samples under the microscope, figuring specific gravity,corresponding with others of our kind....My wife slides my meals under the door.

Sounds like you might have CDO....

For those of you without CDO, and don't know what it is.... CDO is OCD but the letters are in the correct order.

[Trevor Walsh]

Currently I use loose 100 grit on a piece of granite. I think the DaiSharp #220 at $52 is in my future for x-mas.

Loose grit is fast but messy. I flatten stones in the bathtub so I can run water and flush it. Man to I miss having a utility sink. I've used diamond stones on shaptons at one place I worked and that was really easy.

[David Wong]

A cheap way to flatten your King stones is to get another lower grit King and use it to to flatten against. You will have to apply a little technique in lapping the stones so that they do not develop a matching bump and hollow. Sandpaper on glass works well, but is pretty messy. Loose silicon carbide grit on a kanban also works well. I use this technique for flattening very coarse stones.

[Jeff L Miller]

I remember an article or discussion where a former student was admiring Tage Frid's short chisels one day and asked him where he got them. Frid just grumbled (I've read he could be gruff at times) and kept demonstrating with the short chisel. When it came to sharpen it, he walked over to a portable belt sander, turned it on, and ground a new edge in seconds. Thats how the student learned where he got such short chisels.

I use a Norton flatening stone, $25.00 + shipping from Peachtree Woodworking right now.

Jeff

[Casey Gooding]

I agree with the sandpaper idea. That's how I flatten my Kings most of the time and have had good luck. A piece of 220 spray glued to a piece of MDF will last quite a while if you brush it off regularly.

[Harold Burrell]

Thanks guys.

I do have one question, though...

If I went with the "Truing Stone" from LV (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43071,55067&p=55067 ), wouldn't that eventually go "unflat"???

[Stuart Tierney]

Thanks guys.

I do have one question, though...

If I went with the "Truing Stone" from LV (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43071,55067&p=55067 ), wouldn't that eventually go "unflat"???

Yep.

And it's a vicious circle because when that thing goes out of flat, it's a heck of a lot more trouble to get it flat than most stones are, so you're not even back to square one, you're also out several dollars and time spent in frustration and also trying to find a way to get that truing stone flat again. You could have saved the money and trouble by getting something that will be consistent in the first place...

But what do I know?

Stu.

[Zach Dillinger]

I was waiting for the cinder block answer.
I first started reading this forum in 2006 and that was the answer i always heard to this question. I was away until earlier this year and have been amazed by how much more sofisticated the sharpening discussions have become.

I actually came in to suggest the cinder block. It does work well on oilstones, can't speak for waterstones but I can't see why it wouldn't work. A cement floor works well too. No reason to get fancy with it.

[Jack Curtis]

Reasonably flat sidewalks really are great for getting waterstones basically flat.

[David Weaver]

Thanks guys.

I do have one question, though...

If I went with the "Truing Stone" from LV (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43071,55067&p=55067 ), wouldn't that eventually go "unflat"???

As stu says, yes, it will. If you're using soft stones with it (nortons or kings) it would be fine. You just have to get it flat initially and it'll stay that way for a long time.

If you intend to use one with a stone with a hard binder, don't bother. It will glaze over, and it will give you a similar feeling to sticking your head out of a car and scraping your teeth on a galvanized guard rail.

Atoma wins for me for flattening if you're going to do all manners of things with it.

In the US, if you want flat and cheap for all stones medium and up, a DMT duo (plastic core) is probably the best bet for something flat - usually can find something that's got at least one side of 325 grit (sweet spot) for about $60 shipped - stay away from the woodworking retailers for DMT products. Outdoor, amazon, ebay and knife supply places always have them cheaper. Diasharps seem to be inconsistent with flatness. WM8FC is usually the cheapest one, I think it's a 325 and 600, which gives you a side you can save for stones only (325) and one that you can use for sharpening if you want to.

smith's is making a cheap hone that looks like plastic core, but I don't know how flat it is.

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

For a 325 grit DMT, how fine of a waterstone can you flatten? I currently have a 800/4000 King combo that I'd like to be able to flatten reasonably well with just the one diamond stone (I'm currently using sandpaper since that's all I've got).

Also, a question for Harold or anyone that has a King stone: do you find the 4000 grit stone to "glaze" over quickly when polishing A2 steel? When I go to sharpen my A2 plane irons, the 800 side goes just fine. It develops a slurry and the stone cuts; in 15 or 20 strokes, it develops a wire edge. However, on the 4000 side, it just sorta "skates" on the surface and getting a wire edge seems to take a long time.

[Harold Burrell]

Also, a question for Harold or anyone that has a King stone: do you find the 4000 grit stone to "glaze" over quickly when polishing A2 steel?

Oh, sorry...don't ask me. I have yet to use my stones. And neither do I own any A2 steel. :o

[Harold Burrell]

But what do I know?

Stu.

Well...I have read some of your posts. I think you know plenty. I was hoping you would reply to this thread. Thank you.

[jason thigpen]

i use some 180 grit paper on my table saw. it works, and it also keeps me motivated to keep my cast iron top properly waxed and clean. i always neglected that in the past. now that i use it for flattening water stones, i am forced to maintain it! and that's the main reason i haven't taken the plunge to DMT stones for flattening.

[Frank Drew]

I agree with others who've recommended cinder blocks -- they work quite well for waterstones; I use a bit of fine sand on the blocks along with water (play sand is ideal). Then use the sharpening stones to flatten the polishing stones if necessary. I've checked my stones with a straightedge after flattening this way and they always came out precisely straight and true.

Low, but appropriate, tech.

[Tri Hoang]

I've used a Smith's diamond bench stone 11.5" x 2.5" for about 2 years. It was about $50 but it's $60 now on Amazon. Good size, long lasting, and sturdy/firm.