I don't think that's pine...

[Christian Thompson]

After a long, busy summer, I am finally ready to get back in the shop and start tackling the tool chest project I've been thinking about for a while. I saw an ad on craigslist for a local guy with a bunch of rough sawn 5/4 pine. He has it sitting in his barn and says it has been there at least 10 years. I guess someone else cut it before his time for a project that never happened and now he is trying to sell it. Anyway, I picked up 3 boards and started cutting it to length last night. After the first cut I started to get suspicious that it wasn't actually pine. The dust was reddish and didn't smell like pine. It was a little heavier than pine. Then I cleaned up a face and it doesn't look like pine (plus it was a lot harder to plane). Anybody have any idea what this is? Maybe black walnut? He has a bunch of it so it must be something local - we are in upstate NY.

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Also, I noticed what looks like some insect activity. This is my first time buying air dried wood. I'm a little nervous storing it in the garage in case termites come pouring out or something. Is this something you guys worry about? Anything I should do or look for to see if there is still something going on?

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Thanks,
Christian

[Sam Murdoch]

Sycamore is my first guess.

[Todd Burch]

Could be soft maple, but it seems a bit dark for that. How about a clean end-grain shot and a close-up straight-on face grain shot?

[Steve Baumgartner]

Looks somewhat like chestnut to me. It was once common in upstate NY, but largely wiped out by the blight. Insect damage is very common. Believe it or not, my daughter's house (built about 1920) is sheathed with it!

[Brian Kerley]

Looks like ambrosia something.....seems dark for maple. The insect holes are probably old though, and that's what caused the 'ambrosia'ness of the wood. Googling for 'ambrosia walnut' brings up some hits, so it's not unlikely.

[Todd Burch]

Another thought. It's a bit too light for walnut, but perhaps butternut?

[Todd Burch]

Regardless, whatever it is, it will make an awesome tool chest!

[Christian Thompson]

Thanks for the replies everyone.


Could be soft maple, but it seems a bit dark for that. How about a clean end-grain shot and a close-up straight-on face grain shot?

Here are some more pictures - straight on face and end grain. Hopefully they help - my photography isn't the greatest and I don't have time to clean up the end grain much more (I'm supposed to be working and my plane is too dull for this wood :-). So let me know if these don't help and I'll try to get something better this weekend. Another thing I forgot to mention - it has a faint smell that is vaguely familar. I can't place it, though. EDIT - it might be mulch that it reminds me of. Maybe cedar? I did find a few pictures of cedar that has this redish brown look. The smell isn't super strong, though, which I would figure cedar would be.

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Regardless, whatever it is, it will make an awesome tool chest!

I don't think I am going to use it for the tool chest since I am planning on painting it and it's a little heavy. Maybe a coffee table? Just what I need - another project in the queue!

[John Coloccia]

Well, I have to say that I'm rarely stumped by a piece of wood, but this time I'm stumped. Sweet gum, maybe? Maybe black walnut?

[Zach Dillinger]

I'd bet $10,000 that's soft ambrosia maple.

[Dave Fritz]

There's a kiln not too far from me that heats up wood that is used to make pallets for international shipping so they get it really hot. A neighbor cut up some old oak barn beams that he found had insects in. He wanted to make trim for his remodel. The kiln put them in and heated them up, end of insects. Just something to think about.

Dave F.

[Mel Fulks]

What's the texture like,is it closed or open like mahogany etc ?

[george wilson]

The last pictures look like walnut with some spalting.

[Brian Kerley]

After seeing those new pictures, I would say Ambrosia Walnut. And the bugs that made those holes are long gone.

[Sam Murdoch]

Spalted sycamore, to be more exact - my 2nd guess :)

[Christian Thompson]

What's the texture like,is it closed or open like mahogany etc ?

Too be honest, I'm not sure. Really the only other hardwood I've worked with is hard maple. It's not as dense as that, but the bit of planing I did on the face ended with a very smooth surface. Would a closed texture lead to a glassier surface? Would an open texture be rougher and less work to plane? This was a serious workout...


I'd bet $10,000 that's soft ambrosia maple.

This seems darker and redder than any ambrosia maple pictures I can find on the web. Then again... I am definitely no expert.


The last pictures look like walnut with some spalting.

After seeing those new pictures, I would say Ambrosia Walnut.

Walnut seems to be the closest match I can find color-wise, so I'm leaning toward walnut as well.

Thanks again for all the replies!
Christian

[Mel Fulks]

By texture ,I mean does it have little holes in the surface and shavings or are they more closed and without holes?

[Christian Thompson]

By texture ,I mean does it have little holes in the surface and shavings or are they more closed and without holes?

OK. I think it is pretty closed, then.

[Todd Burch]

Looks a whole lot more like Walnut in the 2 newer pictures.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have some Butternut in my rack and this looks an awful lot like it. Butternut is pretty much a lighter version of Walnut and, based on these pictures, that would be my guess.

[Michael Ray Smith]

Walnut has a distinct fragrance when you saw or plane it -- at least black walnut; not sure about others. You could get a scrap of something you know is walnut and compare.

[Prashun Patel]

I vote for sycamore. Sycamore can look like pine, and is only a little heavier than pine.

[Adam Cruea]

Try this:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-identification/

If the guy you bought it off of is old (and it's possibly > 100 years old) then it could be Chestnut. It could well be a species of pine, though.

[Zach Dillinger]

I've never seen sycamore that looks like pine. Sycamore has beech-like grain when quartersawn. It is not dense at all, nor is it heavy.

[Chris Griggs]

I agree with Zach. I thought sycamore or butternut at first too, but both are somewhat open grained, and my impression is that this isn't. I definitely didn't think maple at first, but I'm leaning in that direction now - though its much darker than any maple I've ever had. On second thought maybe it is just a lightish colored piece of walnut and its just hard to tell because the pores aren't visible in the photo.... Really I'm pretty stumped too... Its too hard to tell without being able to really see the grain texture.

To the OP, if you can get a really close detailed shot of the face grain so we can see the grain texture/structure that could provide a lot of insight.

[Christian Thompson]

Walnut has a distinct fragrance when you saw or plane it -- at least black walnut; not sure about others. You could get a scrap of something you know is walnut and compare.

Good suggestion. I should be heading to the lumber yard one of these days for another project so will take a sample and see what I can compare it to. They might have some ideas as well.


Try this:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-identification/

If the guy you bought it off of is old (and it's possibly > 100 years old) then it could be Chestnut. It could well be a species of pine, though.

Supposedly it is in the 10-20 year old range so probably not chestnut. I don't really know what to think after looking at all those pictures :). It is similar to be several, but no perfect matches. I still think the closest is butternut or black walnut. Sycamore seems too light to me. But the spalting or ambrosia might be distorting the color. I emailed the guy so maybe he'll ask his dad or brother who I think were involved in sawing the wood.

Regardless - I'm pretty happy. I got a really good deal on some interesting wood. Hopefully I can find something worthwhile to do with it.

Christian

[Chris Griggs]

Does anyone know if cherry ever spalts like that? If so that's my new guess... I've had cherry similar in color to that, and if you look closely the cathedral pattern in the grain looks like cherry (to me anyway). He also said it had reddish sawdust which implies cherry to me - the sawdust always looks redder than the wood itself.

I'm far from a wood species expert, but am I totally off base here?

[Christian Thompson]

To the OP, if you can get a really close detailed shot of the face grain so we can see the grain texture/structure that could provide a lot of insight.

Here's a closeup.

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[Chris Griggs]

Here's a closeup.

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and we are full circle... walnut it is I believe!

I'm bad at this game!

[Todd Burch]

My vote is walnut, but then again, a piece of butternut has never graced my palms yet either.

[glenn bradley]

Caution. That is a rare form of poisonous wood thought to be extinct except for a few carefully sealed samples at the vaults of the CDC. Do yourself, your community and your country a great service. Go back, buy all he has and send it to me right away.

[Stew Hagerty]

Here's a closeup.

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Here's a closeup of my Butternnut. I think they look alot alike, except yours is aged more.

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[Todd Burch]

Stew - that butternut looks a bit silky. Is it?

[Ryan Baker]

Doesn't really look like black walnut to me. Maybe claro walnut? It should be easy enough to tell if it's walnut from the smell.

Could be butternut, but it doesn't quite look like that either. It doesn't smell like sassafrass does it?

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew - that butternut looks a bit silky. Is it?

Yes it is. I used it to for the carved seat on the rocking horse I made for my granddaughter. It works very easily, sands and finishes very smooth, and looks great. The horse is made from 8/4 mahogany and the roughed out seat is doweled into each side, then I carved out the whole thing into the shape you see. I really think that is what his wood is.

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[Chris Woodward]

It is spalted for sure. It was probably cut from a dead tree, hence the insect damage. It looks a lot like Yellow Birch, or Red Birch.

[Chris Woodward]

It certainly is not pine or any other softwood.

[Joe Cunningham]

All I know is it looks great. I (personally) wouldn't care what wood it is. Make something cool out of it and share. :)

[george wilson]

I'm starting to change my mind too. It could be a spalted birch,butternut, or some other species. Just too hard to tell from a picture.

[Christian Thompson]

Caution. That is a rare form of poisonous wood thought to be extinct except for a few carefully sealed samples at the vaults of the CDC. Do yourself, your community and your country a great service. Go back, buy all he has and send it to me right away.

LOL. I'd be lying if I said this thought didn't cross my mind while I was planing it...

Thanks again for all the replies and suggestions. I think you guys might be on to something with birch. It might be birch bark mulch the smell reminds me of. I'll take a sample the next time I go over to the lumber yard and see what I can figure out. I'll post if I find out anything.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I gotta go with Glenn - up until the "send it to him part."

Whatever it is, I'd go buy the rest.

[Adam Cruea]

I gotta go with Glenn - up until the "send it to him part."

Whatever it is, I'd go buy the rest.

I agree! It has some beautiful grain to it. I'm sure my wife would have an idea for something that pretty. :)

[Christian Thompson]

I gotta go with Glenn - up until the "send it to him part."

Whatever it is, I'd go buy the rest.

The guys says he has 3600 board feet of it (although maybe some of it actually is pine). That'd probably be enough for me to will a few thousand board feet to my sons :-).

[Todd Burch]

What's he selling it for?

[Christian Thompson]

What's he selling it for?

I paid $0.65 / board foot when we thought it was pine. I think he is probably going to raise the price if it turns out the rest is the same stuff as I got.

[Todd Burch]

You TOLD him??? ;)

[Phil Thien]

Looks like walnut to me.

[Sam Murdoch]

I'd bet $10,000 that's soft ambrosia maple.

Prashun and I will split this $ 10,000.00 when we learn that it is indeed spalted sycamore :D.

[Ryan Baker]

Why do people keep saying sycamore? Sycamore has very distinctive grain which looks nothing at all like what's in these pictures.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The guys says he has 3600 board feet of it (although maybe some of it actually is pine). That'd probably be enough for me to will a few thousand board feet to my sons :-).


No, no, no..........the problem is NOT that he has too much. The problem is that you are thinking too small, Christian. Panel a couple rooms in your house, for example. OR - shoot - at a buck a foot, panel the goldang shop!!! :D

[Sam Murdoch]

Why do people keep saying sycamore? Sycamore has very distinctive grain which looks nothing at all like what's in these pictures.


Ryan - I think I'm the only guy who keeps saying sycamore - spalted sycamore. I have used lots of butternut (one entire kitchen and we used to use it for yacht interiors believe it or not, among other smaller projects) and quite a bit of walnut but I have never seen any of those looking like these in the photo. I suggest the sycamore because it is the closest resemblance to anything I have ever seen. This is all a guessing game until someone takes a sample to a pro for ID. I'm just playing along - though I think I could be right I know as well that I could be very wrong. Here is a photo of spalted sycamore that I have found to support my guess. Sorry I don't have any of my own samples on hand -

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And yes I'd like to have some of these boards too - no matter what species it ends up being.

[David Keller NC]

Christian - Being a carver, I have a lot of butternut from the northern areas of the U.S. There's no doubt about the similarity of the grain and color of your wood, so my guess is that's what it is. However, butternut is very easy to distinguish from black walnut. While butternut is often called "white walnut", there's no similarity when it comes to wood density and hardness. Butternut is quite soft; while harder than white pine, you can easily dent it with your fingernail or a blunt tool edge. There's no way you can do that with black walnut. Butternut is also quite a bit less dense than black walnut - I would rate it as slightly more dense than white pine, but only slightly. Most other hardwoods are way more dense, and the difference is obvious when you pick it up at the wood yard.

I hope your seller isn't reading this post, because high-quality carver's butternut retails for about $8 per board foot. And it looks like you do indeed have carver's quality butternut.

I'd buy all of it from your seller, even if you have to get a bank loan or a credit card advance to afford it. Even if it's white pine (which it isn't), it's worth a lot more than $0.65 per b.f.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Bank loan? If it is, in fact, butternut, the way I read the thread, Zach is paying for it. :D

[Ryan Baker]

Sam -- I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping on your post. I agree about the coloring of the sycamore. But all sycamore I have ever seen has a very close grain pattern up close. I don't see that grain pattern at all in the close up pictures here. The grain does look a lot like walnut.

A lot of our guesses could be ruled out pretty fast with some more info. How heavy is it? How hard is it? (If it's light and soft, that rules out walnut.) What does the smooth-cut end-grain look like? How does it cut/pare? Etc. A lot of woods can turn into the colors shown in the right combination of environmental circumstances.

It actually reminds me a lot of some patagonian rosewood I have in the shop -- but that couldn't be farther away in density, hardness, etc.

Whatever it is, it is some nice material, and I would try to get as much as possible.

[Zach Dillinger]

Bank loan? If it is, in fact, butternut, the way I read the thread, Zach is paying for it. :D

Ha! Look at the end grain of the board... sure looks like soft maple to me. Ambrosia does weird things to coloring, as does age, but look at the underlying grain. It looks nothing like sycamore or walnut to me. In my opinion, the only other species it could be is birch, which has a similar end grain, but usually less pronounced face grain. I'd stick with a maple species.

[Scott T Smith]

Here are some examples of spalted, QS sycamore:

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[Frank Drew]

I don't know. By the color in the closeup in post #28, I'd say walnut, but the grain doesn't say walnut to me, even in the closeup picture. The grain is somewhat coarse but, to my old eyes at least, I don't see the rather elegant semi-open pored grain characteristic of walnut.

As Zach notes, sycamore has a tell-tale flecking in the grain, not unlike beech; it's there in both quartered and flat sawn. I don't see that here.

Chestnut is a ring-porous wood, like oak, ash, elm, sassafras; the photos don't show a grain like that.

The color changes associated with spalting and whatever else this lumber went through make identification pretty difficult just from photos.

[Christian Thompson]

I took a sample into the local hardwood lumberyard and the guy took one look at it and said... red maple. He said the strange coloring wasn't spalting, but the patterns you sometimes get with the heartwood.

EDIT - looking back over the thread, looks like Zach nailed it. Glad I didn't shake hands on the bet :).

[Mike Null]

My vote is for butternut.

[Todd Burch]

I don't know how much it would cost to have that wood analyzed by someone like Hoadley, but I'd chip in $10 to find out.

[Salem Ganzhorn]

He problem with the walnut guess is the op says it has a more closed grain structure. The close ups look maplish to me but I have never seen maple that consistently dark. It might helpful to get a good endgrain shot. One where the grain is cut cleanly and you can make out the pores.Salem

[Zach Dillinger]

I took a sample into the local hardwood lumberyard and the guy took one look at it and said... red maple. He said the strange coloring wasn't spalting, but the patterns you sometimes get with the heartwood.

EDIT - looking back over the thread, looks like Zach nailed it. Glad I didn't shake hands on the bet :).

I'll take my $10,000 in-kind... sure is pretty wood! Just kidding, happy to help. I mentioned a bet because I was basically certain it was maple. That end grain photo is unmistakable.

[Jacob Reverb]

Sweet gum, maybe?

That was my first guess.

Will the wood split? It if absolutely WILL NOT SPLIT with the biggest splitting maul, it's sweet gum.

[Zach Dillinger]

I've got a bunch of sweet gum drying in my woodshed (destined to be the floor of my new shop). It is definitely lighter in color than this board. Grain is somewhat similar, but the end grain is totally different. Hard to say without holding it.

[John Coloccia]

I don't know how much it would cost to have that wood analyzed by someone like Hoadley, but I'd chip in $10 to find out.

As far as I know, he's still at UMass in Amherst. My guess is that he would probably do it for free as an exercise for his students.

FWIW, I could get behind Red Maple on this one too. Like I said early on, I'm not often stumped but this particular piece is really very ambiguous visually. Maybe it would be more obvious in person.

[Mel Fulks]

More than one place doing those identifications.Had one done about eight years ago.Think it was about 40$ .Cant remember who did it.

[Thomas love]

Looks like Red Gum or poplarhttp://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/gum.htm

[Christian Thompson]

As far as I know, he's still at UMass in Amherst. My guess is that he would probably do it for free as an exercise for his students.

FWIW, I could get behind Red Maple on this one too. Like I said early on, I'm not often stumped but this particular piece is really very ambiguous visually. Maybe it would be more obvious in person.

The guy that took a look at it for me didn't waver or hesitate at all - he seemed very sure that it was red maple. I think he is one of the owners of a specialty hardwood store and does a lot of the milling so I'm pretty confident of his knowledge. So I don't know if it is worth sending out.

[Ryan Baker]

I would believe it was red maple. I've seen some get similar brown shades. I've never seen as much color in it, but under just the right conditions it could happen.