PVC gasline allowed?

[Don Jeansonne]

Does anyone know if PVC is allowed for underground natural lines? I think it has been used in the past but may have been removed from building codes recently.

[joe milana]

NO! there are plastic pipes that can be used, but not your typical DWV PVC.

[Don Selke]

First of all, you need to contact your building department and get a copy of the local codes pertaining to gas service lines. I suppose you could do what you want but I do not think your homeowners insurance company would pay any claims to your or your neighbors property if you do not follow the local building codes. Natural gas is nothing to play around with. Underground leaks can get under your foundation as well as under the neighbors foundation.
Sounds like this is a job for a professional licensed in natural gas distribuition. So the answer to your question is NO,NO,NO.

[Lee Schierer]

Good advice from Don. I seriously doubt that the pvc you buy at the local Borgs is allowed for use as gas line.

[Don Jeansonne]

I am not going to doing anything against code.
A friend told me that he has a PVC pipe suppling gas to his house. It is a house build about 25 yrs ago. I was wondering if was code legal at some time in the past and not today?

Thanks for the responses.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I don't know if it's PVC....but when I built my shop, the local utilities company T-d into the natural gas line on the output side of the meter. They ran a plastic line that used what appeared to me to be crimp on connectors to my shop. There the company installing the heater, went to black iron inside the building. They also buried a wire for "tracing" when they installed the plastic line.

Last summer a contractor hired to replace my galvanized domestic water line with copper into the house, accidentally cut the gas line going to the shop. He contacted the utility company. They quickly came out and repaired the line.

So ....some type of plastic gas line once met code.

I'd contact your local building code department for the most recent information.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I am not going to doing anything against code.
A friend told me that he has a PVC pipe suppling gas to his house. It is a house build about 25 yrs ago. I was wondering if was code legal at some time in the past and not today?

Thanks for the responses.It's NOT PVC. but poly which is rated for use with gas (yellow.) Usually limited to pressures of less than 75 PSI. Spliced by butt jointed heat sealing. For joining to other types of piping, crimp rings (similar to PEX) are used

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bruce....yellow is what it is..

[johnny means]

When I saw the thread title, I thought the OP was thinking about PVC for gasoline:eek:

[Ole Anderson]

Lots of folks don't know the differences between types of plastic, to some, all of it is PVC. Plastic gas line is most likely HDPE, or high density poly. Thousands of miles of it have been installed by open trench construction techniques, and more lately mostly by directional drilling. I think up to 6" diameter. Any larger and it is most likely steel with welded joints. In home gas line is usually either black steel with threaded joints or copper with flange joints. The flexy corrugated stuff going to your range or dryer is another matter.

Water lines and pressure sewers are another matter. I have designed directional bored projects with HDPE watermains able to handle 160psi up to 16" in diameter with walls nearly 2 inches thick. I have seen projects with HDPE water and sewer lines up to 48" in diameter. Interesting stuff. Neat to watch them heat weld 40' straight sections into quarter mile long pipes.

[ray hampton]

160 psi will flush your pipes of deposits in the pipes, am glad that the psi are reduce before it enter the house

[Mike Cutler]

NFPA 54 and 58 detail the types,sizes, and materials, allowed for use in gas delivery systems.
There are "plastic, PVC like appearing materials" approved for use, but the NFPA's are very descriptive about material composition.They are code legal today, but some states, and local authorities, may, or may not allow their use.
The Engineers Toolbox website has a lot of info on the materials also.

Ken the plastic pipe that got cut is your mechanical riser. Your buried run is either entirely that same material, pipe inside of pipe, pr pipe with cathodic protection. For new installation the "yellow plastic pipe" is the easiest to approve for direct burial.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike...all I know is that the contractor cut it about 15' between the meter located at the house and the shop which is about a 35' run. The utility company repaired without removing anything.....

[Don Selke]

No matter what you do or use, you better obtain a permit from the local building department before construction and a final inspection after construction...

[Mike Cutler]

No matter what you do or use, you better obtain a permit from the local building department before construction and a final inspection after construction...

Don
I can't say it's the same everywhere, but it is typical that a final inspection, pressure drop test and purge have to be performed before the gas supplier will hook up. Permit process aside.

[Kevin Neal]

I was wondering if was code legal at some time in the past and not today?


Since it doesn't look like anyone directly answered this question - Yes, PVC was legal for gas in the past. However, it wasn't just plain white PVC, rather it was one rated for gas. It was gray/black in color. What happens, though, is that the PVC will dry out and become VERY brittle. I work for a gas distribution company and we had a system that we bought with several hundred miles of PVC main. Very hard stuff to work on because you touch it and the pipe cracks.

Gas distribution companies use plastic pipe almost exclusively now. For intermediate pressures (60psi or less) it is usually PE2406, which is a polyethylene pipe and is manufactured yellow in color. For higher pressures PE3406 or PE3408, which is black or black/yellow can go up to at least 100 psi. Newer technology (for the United States anyway) is PA-11 or PA-12. It is made of a polyamide compound. This plastic pipes can be rated for greater than 200 psi. The polyamide pipe has been used in other countries for many years, but hasn't really gained a foothold in the US yet. Some states will not allow it to be installed yet, and some states are only allowing limited trials.

With any type of plastic gas pipe, make sure to bury a wire with it so it can be located in the future. Unlike metal pipes, you can't find it after it's installed without that wire. Use at least a #14 wire, and if you're running an long distance consider putting a zinc anode every 500' to help make the electrical current on the wire high enough to be able to locate it accurately.

[ray hampton]

Since it doesn't look like anyone directly answered this question - Yes, PVC was legal for gas in the past. However, it wasn't just plain white PVC, rather it was one rated for gas. It was gray/black in color. What happens, though, is that the PVC will dry out and become VERY brittle. I work for a gas distribution company and we had a system that we bought with several hundred miles of PVC main. Very hard stuff to work on because you touch it and the pipe cracks.

Gas distribution companies use plastic pipe almost exclusively now. For intermediate pressures (60psi or less) it is usually PE2406, which is a polyethylene pipe and is manufactured yellow in color. For higher pressures PE3406 or PE3408, which is black or black/yellow can go up to at least 100 psi. Newer technology (for the United States anyway) is PA-11 or PA-12. It is made of a polyamide compound. This plastic pipes can be rated for greater than 200 psi. The polyamide pipe has been used in other countries for many years, but hasn't really gained a foothold in the US yet. Some states will not allow it to be installed yet, and some states are only allowing limited trials.

With any type of plastic gas pipe, make sure to bury a wire with it so it can be located in the future. Unlike metal pipes, you can't find it after it's installed without that wire. Use at least a #14 wire, and if you're running an long distance consider putting a zinc anode every 500' to help make the electrical current on the wire high enough to be able to locate it accurately.

do this wire have a current/voltage source ? if it spark will the gas pipe develop an leak close to the spark

[Jim Andrew]

When we ran my gas line to my shop, it was a coil of pipe or hose. We put a sleeve over the outside where it crossed the driveway, and they had a riser fitting the hose attached to to bring the piping into the shop. Also had a new flex type pipe to hook to the propane tank.

[Kevin Neal]

do this wire have a current/voltage source ? if it spark will the gas pipe develop an leak close to the spark

When you use a locator to find underground utilities, there is a small modulated current applied to the wire that the locator receiver can pick up. On long runs of small diameter wire the current may not make it all the way to the end. The zinc anode will create a small amount of current on the wire that will extend the range of the locator. Most of the locators that I've used run off 6 - D Cell batteries, so you're not talking about much in the way of voltage or current.

I've never seen it, but I have heard of lightening striking a gas meter riser and the lightening followed the wire down and blew a hole in the plastic pipe. Of course with it underground it caused a leak but no fire since it didn't have oxygen and 100% natural gas will not burn.

[ray hampton]

When you use a locator to find underground utilities, there is a small modulated current applied to the wire that the locator receiver can pick up. On long runs of small diameter wire the current may not make it all the way to the end. The zinc anode will create a small amount of current on the wire that will extend the range of the locator. Most of the locators that I've used run off 6 - D Cell batteries, so you're not talking about much in the way of voltage or current.

I've never seen it, but I have heard of lightening striking a gas meter riser and the lightening followed the wire down and blew a hole in the plastic pipe. Of course with it underground it caused a leak but no fire since it didn't have oxygen and 100% natural gas will not burn.

instead of using d-cells why not use solar cells which will not die so quick ? natural gas may not burn underground but since it are under pressure , it will travel to the surface , BOOM

[Kevin Neal]

The locators I'm talking about consist of two parts, a transmitter and a receiver. Generally speaking they are stored in a large plastic "briefcase" type box behind the seat in the cab of some guys pickup. Not much access to sun back there for solar panels to work. You've probably seen guys walking around swinging a plastic wand from side to side and sticking flags in the ground or spraying painting lines on the ground. The "wand" is the receiver. It picks up the signal from the transmitter which is attached to either the wire (with plastic pipe) or directly to the pipe (if metallic). The process is the same for locating electric/phone/cable/etc.

Yes, gas will eventually rise to the surface. Of course it would still need an ignition source and the proper gas/oxygen ratio before it could ignite. And since it's lighter than air it will also have a tendency to not stick around unless contained by walls or ceiling. Strange that most people that work in electric utilities are terrified of gas lines, but gas guys are scared of electricity. I guess its all about what you get used to. :)

I'm actually pretty interested in solar, though. My plans for the not so distant future center around building a solar water heater for my house.

[ray hampton]

The locators I'm talking about consist of two parts, a transmitter and a receiver. Generally speaking they are stored in a large plastic "briefcase" type box behind the seat in the cab of some guys pickup. Not much access to sun back there for solar panels to work. You've probably seen guys walking around swinging a plastic wand from side to side and sticking flags in the ground or spraying painting lines on the ground. The "wand" is the receiver. It picks up the signal from the transmitter which is attached to either the wire (with plastic pipe) or directly to the pipe (if metallic). The process is the same for locating electric/phone/cable/etc.

Yes, gas will eventually rise to the surface. Of course it would still need an ignition source and the proper gas/oxygen ratio before it could ignite. And since it's lighter than air it will also have a tendency to not stick around unless contained by walls or ceiling. Strange that most people that work in electric utilities are terrified of gas lines, but gas guys are scared of electricity. I guess its all about what you get used to. :)

I'm actually pretty interested in solar, though. My plans for the not so distant future center around building a solar water heater for my house.

you cover the detector of phone/gas/ electric/cable /water but I had to tell you that you miss the most important one [sewage pipes]
I got a sinus nose so I refuse to work on gas supply but the electric do not bother me [120 or lower

how cold do it gets in OK ? a pipe bury in the ground and filled with fluid will preheat the water