New PM-V11 iron

[Dale Cruea]

I received my Pm-V11 for my LV BU Jack plane.
So far it is all I hoped it would be and a little more.

I have been working with some hard maple and some soft curly maple.
Both have taken a toll on my A-2 irons.

Bevel down planes were working OK for the roughing. I had to re-sharpen often. The edges on the irons were breaking down bad.
The LV BU Jack was doing great as long as I could keep in sharp.
I tried changing the secondary bevel to 30*. That worked a little better to keep the edge sharp and not tear out.

The PM iron I received today has a 25* secondary bevel and is working great so far. My arms got tired from planing and the edge is still razor sharp.

The PM iron does take a little more effort to sharpen.
I use the LV MK II guide. For repeatability I need to hone my irons square to the register side of the guide. LV must hone/grind the edge square to the holes in the blade.
It took some time for me to stone the iron square to the side I was using. My problem and not a problem from them.
The back of the iron was what we have come to expect for LV. LV flat. I ran the back across my Sigma 6000 and polished it a bit. dead flat. 30 seconds max to polish.
After the bevel was changed to suit me the actual honing went fairly quickly.
My Sigma stones appear to like the PM metal.
I did notice that the slurry from the PM is very fine compared to A-2 and does not look as black.
The PM takes a very sharp edge. As sharp as A-2 and O-1.

I also got a Shapton Pro 320 today for rough work. This stone and PM-V11 do not mix well. The 320 will cut the PM however, you have to refresh the stone often as it will quit cutting.
I need to check the stone one A-2 and hope it does better.
BTW the Shapton 320 stone did not appear to dish at all. I checked after I had used it for a few minutes and was getting ready to re-freshen it.

The PM iron did not cut out of the box but it was sharp. Like most new irons you buy I think just a little honing and it would be good to go.

Nice iron and I am glad I ordered it.
I may have to try some PM chisels next.

Just some FYI if you were wondering about the new LV PM-V11 steel.

An update on the Shapton Pro 320 stone,
I used it several times today to flatten a back of my Hock #80 steel. Never could get that thing flat. I have been working on it for several months.
The Shapton 320 flattened it right out and without the heavy scratches I would expect from a 320 stone.
The stone did finally dish out about .0015" after flattening the steel.
I then used it to put a new edge on the #80 blade. It worked better than my blue diamond stone (Diamond stone is about worn out).
The scratches left by the 320 were quickly removed with my Sigma 1000 hard stone.

All in all the Shapton 320 Pro appears to be an OK rough stone.

[Chris Griggs]

Nice review Dale - thanks for taking the time to share your findings with the rest of us. It's getting hard for me to resist getting one for my LA Jack. I pretty much use it as a dedicated shooter and that kind of edge retention would indeed be quite nice. Wouldn't mind having one for my LABP either. Hmmmm I wonder if they'll make one for my little victor ;)

[Klaus Kretschmar]

I happen to have the PM V-11 chisels since a few days. Sadly I'm currently unable to do serious test work since the doc has forbidden to do woodworking due to some health issues. But she didn't forbid to hone those chisels and to try them out a little bit http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowbiggrin.gif - really just a little bit.

All I can say now is...WOW!

The honing work was done in a very short time. The chisels came with dead flat backs out of the box. The big surprise I had so far is the keen edge that this PM V-11 steel takes. My guess was that there could be the downside of this wonder steel. How wrong I was!! It takes an edge, that surprises indeed. It is better than my O1 bladed chisels and achieves the sharpness of my white paper steel Japanese chisels. Wouldn't have thought that for sure.

The balance of the chisels is very very satisfying and the feel of the handles and their size feels just about perfect. There went a lot of work into the tool evolution without any doubt.

Being really impressed, I can't await to put these tools to serious work. I'm too curious about the edge holding ability of the chisels in my work. I'll keep you updated. If they do it the way, other woodworkers mentioned it already, these chisels will be winners for sure. The first glance performance is better than I ever would have it expected.

Klaus

[Dale Cruea]

Just an update on the new PM iron.
I have been using it today for a while. Got tired and had to take several breaks cause I am an old man.

Pulled PM iron out of the plane to check it. Hmmmm still cuts paper like when I sharpened it.
No nicks or wire edge. Still cutting like a newly sharpened iron.
I may never have to sharpen this iron.

Chris,
Someone posted on here a few days ago about using it for shooting end grain.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?191471-Veritas-PMV11-End-grain-dream-come-true!
That is what I bought my LV Jack for.
I haven't tried it yet. Bet there would not be a problem.

$49.00 and it could be yours in a few days.
Fastest shipping I have ever had from LV.

Thanks Klaus.
I want to try them there chisels.
Maybe next month I will buy 1 or 2. I need a good 1" chisel.

I looked and they don't make replacement blades for my Stanleys yet.
Hope they do soon.
I may never buy another Hock iron.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I have to say, the more reviews I'm hearing of the PMV11 is starting to make me regret my choice of the LN low-angle jack over the LV one...

[Ryan Baker]

I've had my eye on the PM chisel set. All these threads on the new PM irons .... you guys are doing your best to push me over the edge! I feel yet another order coming on.

[Mike Henderson]

Chris,
Someone posted on here a few days ago about using it for shooting end grain.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?191471-Veritas-PMV11-End-grain-dream-come-true!

And I did a posting about using the PM-V11 chisel for chopping dovetails - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?191545-Evaluation-of-the-LV-PM-V11-chisel-for-chopping-dovetails&highlight=

Mike

[Harold Burrell]

I may never buy another Hock iron.

Funny you should say that...

I emailed Ron Hock about the new PM irons. He actually is quite interested in the new steel...

[James Taglienti]

I got a PM cutter for my LA block earlier this week. We built a dozen large cabinets today out of 3/4 birch plywood. There were some funky angled pieces and I spent a while planing the fuzz off of them and otherwise cleaning them up. My A2 cutter from IBC at 28* didnt last very long, which was no surprise. I took it out and switched in the PM. I was reluctant to because I had honed the new cutter at 23* and didnt think it would hold up. Boy was I wrong! It outlasted the A2 at least 3x. Im going to have to order the chisels and a cutter for my main smoother. I seriously feel like I would be nuts not to. It is a lot of money but if it cuts my sharpening time to a third of what it is now, the PM will pay for itself in a few months. This stuff is going to be money on site when running back to the truck to sharpen something is a real pain.

I know Schwarz review states that it honed up just right on oilstones but my experience is different... On a soft ark, lily white, and no. 1 washita the cutter honed strangely and left a sandblasted looking surface, and polishing it out was difficult on translucents. It took to green paste well though. It is possible to get a good edge on oilstones but it took me twice as long as A2. Hardly a dealbreaker I suppose.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi James

I think that Chris Schwarz' comments about using oilstones to hone PM-V11 is misleading. It can be done - frankly anything can be done given endless time and patience - but it is just not a realistic test or expectation. After all, if we are comparing PM-V11 to A2 steel, then how many are happy honing A2 steel on oilstones? Not many I am sure. Waterstones are the preferred medium for most, and what should be used for comparison.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John McPhail]

This is interesting.

I received a PM-V11 iron with my new rabbet plane, and honed it my normal way, which is with a Norton Translucent Arkansas stone. Working on the initial microbevel was getting me nowhere. I was able to polish the face but working the bevel just wasn't giving me a wire edge.

I moved over to my medium India and produced a substantial wire edge, then moved back to the Translucent Arkansas and things proceeded normally - I worked both sides, removed the wire edge, and was able to produce a new wire edge pretty easily.

Subsequent honings with the Arkansas have been trouble-free and basically as advertised - faster than A2, and not as fast as O1.

Also I strop with Herb's Yellowstone, and my normal process is to polish the face, then strop the bevel until I can feel a tiny wire edge, and then polish that off alternating between the face and the bevel. No problem with stropping.

It made me wonder if there is some kind of case-hardening effect going on with the iron during fabrication. I can't explain it, but getting past the initial factory surface on the bevel seemed to make the difference.


...It is possible to get a good edge on oilstones but it took me twice as long as A2. Hardly a dealbreaker I suppose.

[Thom Edwards]

I'm curious about how honing the new steel goes on diamond lapping film. Anyone try this yet?

[Derek Cohen]

Thom

The early experimentation I did with the PM-V11 plane blade involved honing with Shapton Pros and diamond lapping film. Both were the PM-V11 and the mesh were new items in pre-production form at the time (this is a little over 12 months ago now). The steel and the mesh are a match made in heaven ... however the mesh can hone anything, so that is not a good test of the mesh or the steel. As I have mentioned before, the mesh is excellent, and lasts a long, long time .. but is too fragile to be considered a primary sharpening kit. I keep it for my travelling kit. The PM-V11 honed easily on the Shaptons. By comparison, the Shaptons struggled in the higher grits (5000, 8000 and 12000) with other PM steels, such as 3V and M4.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dale Cruea]

Last night I honed my PM iron for my BU jack to about 22* just to see what would happen.
The iron held an edge for as long as I was planing. Maybe about 1/2 on soft curly maple and about .006" shaving.
I did not see much difference between 22* and 25* so I am putting the bevel back to 25*.

I also ground the primary bevel some for clearance. Not fun to grind. The steel does not throw sparks. Pretty hard to grind on a white wheel.

I also did a 3' drop test on a concrete floor. Iron slipped from my hand.
It will mark concrete and it will mess up the edge.

I have decided that this steel is air hardened and maybe a cousin to D-2.
It works a lot like the D-2 I used in die making. Just maybe not a hard. Just tough.

I tried my new Shapton Pro 320 stone again and it is now cutting the PM iron fairly well. Maybe I need to flatten the stone a few times to get it to work well.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Has anyone tried sharpening a chisel @ 20* yet?

Before Blue Spruce, I believe paring chisels were usually sharpened primary 18*, secondary at 20*.

[Igor Petrenko]

Would be good excuse for all of us that already have full set of decent chisels to buy LV set just for paring.
:)


Has anyone tried sharpening a chisel @ 20* yet?

Before Blue Spruce, I believe paring chisels were usually sharpened primary 18*, secondary at 20*.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

I'm an oil stone user and I like em for O1 blades for sure. The A2 blades aren't the best friends of my oil stones, it just takes too long to get a good result. So I upgraded the sharpening and honing equipment a few months ago with LV honing plates and diamond paste. Great results on A2. That to be said, I honed the PM-V11 by using the honing plate and the finest diamond paste (1 micron = about grit 15,000). A few strokes and the backs were ready to use. Another few strokes on the bevel and I was done.