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Ernie Martinez
09-11-2012, 2:04 PM
I have just been approached by someone in the Pad Printing industry, looking for a way to create Pad Printing plates using a Laser. They currently use polymer sheets with a steel backing (needs to be magnetic). The plate is etched using photo resist method, which is time consuming. They are looking for a Laser direct to plate method.

Anyone out there heard of any solutions for this?

Martin Boekers
09-11-2012, 2:30 PM
May work may not, http://www.laserbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80_316&products_id=880&zenid=b5k845vq904mhbhor6cgtb8ip5

Joe Hillmann
09-11-2012, 2:44 PM
I know there are companies out there that sell kits that include a 5 watt laser to make the plates so I know that pad printing cliches can be cut with a laser but I don't remember the company name or know if the backs are magnetic, I have played with building my own pad printing machine using glass for the cliche's and double sided tape to hold it in place. With a bit of experimenting it could have worked very well but cleaning up the ink was such a pain I gave up on it after trying 2 plates engraved with different settings.

Mark Sipes
09-11-2012, 3:20 PM
Must be possible! http://www.padprintmachinery.com/Plates/laser-plates & http://www.inkcups.com/supplies/laser-plates/Default.aspx

Scott Einsig
09-11-2012, 3:41 PM
Hey Mark, you linked to my company PPMOVT! I run the DTP services, and have helped develop the cliche making process. We use a 10W Universal Laser with the HDPFO lens. There are many different types of polymer plates, some work better than others. The plates we use are able to hold an 80/90 screen and you can even do process work. We've found the laser is a great option for those companies that make a lot of plates and don't have room/time/money for the film and chemical method. I PM'ed Ernie that the Pad Printing Industry is very competitive and most of the settings and methods are considered proprietary. I'm happy to answer some questions, but not in a searchable public forum. If anyone has specific questions, they can PM me.

Martin Boekers
09-11-2012, 4:17 PM
How about acylic sheeting? You can adhesive a steel backer plate.

Ernie Martinez
09-13-2012, 12:57 PM
I don't think acrylic will have the abrasion resistance required. I've seen some commercially available plates and they just look like paint coated steel. The coating looks to me like a polyurethane epoxy based paint. I'm wondering if a paint like Imron would be engrave-able.

Mark Sipes
09-13-2012, 1:45 PM
If I were a pad printer I would want a product that was designed for my industry. Tell your customer you can help them. here is the material, Let's try a sample run........... Quit trying to short cut your customers quality...... unless you are a pad printer and have a laser... then carry on and try to cheapen your costs.

JMT

Ernie Martinez
09-13-2012, 2:05 PM
My customer IS a Pad Printer Manufacturer, and wants to manufacture and sell his own plates, I'm doing the research for him.

George Carlson
09-13-2012, 3:04 PM
It seems that a polyester powder coated steel plate would work. The powder coating would have to be applied very uniformally, but that would not be hard for a professional powder coater.

Martin Boekers
09-13-2012, 3:53 PM
I guess he is doing smaller quantities at a time or it seems to me it would be faster to etch them, you could layout a whole sheet
and cut them apart to the size needed. Is there enough money in it to justify doing it by laser? Do the plates you saw look like
they are lasered? Maybe try one of those plates and see if it lasers. You might want to check the MSDS on it first. Let us know what you find!

Mark Sipes
09-13-2012, 3:59 PM
Ernie let us know what process you go with to test the waters and demo to your customer that you can do the work... Might be an untapped market for all of us.

Scott Einsig
09-13-2012, 4:08 PM
I guess he is doing smaller quantities at a time or it seems to me it would be faster to etch them, you could layout a whole sheet
and cut them apart to the size needed. Is there enough money in it to justify doing it by laser? Do the plates you saw look like
they are lasered? Maybe try one of those plates and see if it lasers. You might want to check the MSDS on it first. Let us know what you find!


Sounds like Ernie is doing the R&D. The money will be made by the manufacturer as traditional plates cost more time and money in materials to make than the laser plates.

Martin Boekers
09-13-2012, 4:08 PM
Actually a quick search brought these guys up, looks like a lower power CO2 laser is being used.

http://www.itwtranstech.com/Products/Laser/StarLightLaser/tabid/485/Default.aspx

Mark Sipes
09-13-2012, 4:35 PM
Wow appears to be a product line already on the market.... guess we don't have to invent a new way to make a product that works...........


http://www.padprintmachinery.com/Plates/laser-plates (http://www.padprintmachinery.com/Plates/laser-plates) & http://www.inkcups.com/supplies/lase...s/Default.aspx (http://www.inkcups.com/supplies/lase...s/Default.aspx)

Laser Plates for CO2 Now pioneered computer-to-plate technology in the pad printing industry. Our engineers have developed the largest selection of laser engravable plates on the market

Go figure!

Ernie Martinez
09-13-2012, 10:55 PM
My client is aware of whats already on the market, and he needs to be able to compete. I'm not sure how much of a market there would be for us, since Pad Printers would opt to buy a laser to make their own cliche's in house. CUrrently they need to invest in a UV light box, chemicals, and it takes about 40 minutes to go from film to plate. The benefit of direct to laser is time saved. I'm basically researching materials and providing my laser to test prototypes.

I'll post updates as I learn more. I'm first going to try Brass coated steel.

Martin Boekers
09-14-2012, 10:19 AM
Have you checked the Patent Office? It is searchable, may give some good info on the process and you may be able to modifiy it
enough so as not to run into legal issues.

John Johnson 2
09-14-2012, 1:03 PM
What about stripping a DVD writer and driving it via Mach3.

Dan Hintz
09-14-2012, 3:35 PM
CUrrently they need to invest in a UV light box, chemicals, and it takes about 40 minutes to go from film to plate. The benefit of direct to laser is time saved.

You realize a large plate can take more than this in time, right? Depends upon the laser manufacturer (i.e., speed) and wattage, but it can take a while. With the laser, size of the plate is directly related to length of time cutting it... with the photo process, the time is fixed.

Richard Rumancik
09-17-2012, 5:52 PM
Ernie, I'm a bit confused. In one post you said your customer is a pad printer manufacturer - and they want to be able to sell their own plates. But in another post you indicate that pad printers would buy their own laser to make cliches in-house. So which is it? I think the second comment is probably accurate - most pad printers get a job today, and the customer wants the marked product tomorrow. There is usually no time to farm out cliche-fabrication (nor the desire to rely on outside sources for this) and I don't think us with laser engravers could find much of a business here.

So I assume you are helping this manufacturer develop a system that they can sell along with their pad printers? (Presumably to compete with what is already out there.)

I don't think the key component to this is the laser - although you could tweak and optimize laser optics for this purpose - but it would seem to me the main product would be the coated blanks themselves. So I would think that you would need to come up with a plate and coating that is better than what is already available. That could be a big challenge . . .

The depth of cut of a cliche is very small - on the order of maybe .0001". You would need to develop a coating where one could reliably achieve a "pit" of this depth. The first time, not the second. If it is too large or too deep the imprint will not be good.

As far as the length of time to laser a cliche - pad printing by definition is generally used for small logos and marks. You cannot pad print an electronics control panel, for example, in one shot. It is not like screenprinting. So the typical pad print mark would be enclosed by a circle of an inch or two. Three inches would be getting large. Yes, you can mark larger but is is less common. So I don't think it would take 40 minutes to laser a cliche.

matthew knott
09-17-2012, 8:26 PM
I have used the inkcup plates with a laser and made a cliché plate (using a yag laser) it worked ok but not as good as steel plate, you can also engrave steel plates directly with a yag, i worked with tampo print many years ago, they are pretty much the market leader in pad printing and do a range of lasers and plates for direct marking http://www.tampoprintusa.com/Cliche-Making-1.html
The old chem etch method still produces good results, much faster than 40 mins, and you can etch multiple plates at the same time, and the pad printing process involves loads of inks and solvents and mess anyway so I'm not convinced that laser is really helping that much.

Ernie Martinez
09-20-2012, 11:54 AM
Just to clarify. My customer is a Pad printer manufacturer. They want to offer their customer laserable plates for their pad printing cliche's. Ultimately they will sell a turnkey system, including the Pad printer, laser, and supply the plates. I have been helping them with different materials, to see what would work. Yes there are companies out there already selling engraveable plates, but those companies are my customer's competition. They want to supply their own.

With respect to my earlier comments. I said I don't believe there would be a market for us laser owner/operators in this field because a pad printing shop would likely not outsource the engraving of their plates to people like us, they would just by a laser and do it in house.

Mark Sipes
09-20-2012, 2:57 PM
I have just been approached by someone in the Pad Printing industry, looking for a way to create Pad Printing plates using a Laser. They currently use polymer sheets with a steel backing (needs to be magnetic). The plate is etched using photo resist method, which is time consuming. They are looking for a Laser direct to plate method.

Anyone out there heard of any solutions for this?

I'm fairly sure we attempted to give you our best answers based on what was provided. Now that they " a.k.a. someone, the client " are a distributor of Systems and are looking for a "new" material or method to offer their customers your right...