How accurate is your tenoning jig?

[Tom Jones III]

I've never used one before and I just bought the Rockler tenoning jig. I'm measuring it at about .017" out of alignment with the TS blade and there is no adjustment on the jig to get it more accurate. My measurement for out of alignment is just on the fence of the jig so across the 4" or so it is out by 0.17".

So first question, is that too far out? Do the "nicer" jigs have adjustment screws to align the jig properly?

Second question, maybe I'm expecting too much? I'm trying to put very accurate tenons on an 11" wide board. Is a tenoning jig ever going to be accurate enough for that or should I use another method to make the 2 tenons on that board?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tom, when I had a tenon jig the screws that connected it to the mitre bar had some limited play that would allow the jig to run parallel to the blade.

I would say that on an 11" board I would use a dado blade to cut the tenon, then a shoulder plane............Regards, Rod.

[Stephen Cherry]

Is it this jig?
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10185&filter=tenon%20jig&ne_ppc_id=776&mkwid=3423394&pcrid=5325328080&ne_key_id=sqJUdHXMs&gclid=CLid9JvIrbICFQJx4AodUmEAyA

If so, they give alignment instructions in the manual.

[glenn bradley]

I have an old version of that jig. It is Rockler blue but came packed with Jet/Powermatic instructions. I had no trouble aligning it. Their current instructions (http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000421AA.pdf) are different but, should include alignment. I am off to work so did not look closely. If they fall short I can look for mine.

[Tom Jones III]

That is indeed the correct tenoning jig and the instructions do show you how to adjust the jig ... except the adjustment screws do not exist. I went back to Rockler yesterday to find out what was going on and we found a supplemental document explaining the the adjustment screws were no longer necessary so they have been removed from current versions of the product!

[Phil Thien]

That is indeed the correct tenoning jig and the instructions do show you how to adjust the jig ... except the adjustment screws do not exist. I went back to Rockler yesterday to find out what was going on and we found a supplemental document explaining the the adjustment screws were no longer necessary so they have been removed from current versions of the product!

The supplemental document seems to offer some other alignment instructions. Do those work?

http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000559AA.pdf

[Tom Jones III]

At first glance of the supplement document I was hopeful, but this is the first paragraph:

As previously reported, the instructions for the jig include an erroneous reference to a method for
adjusting the vertical work support plate (C) to make it parallel to the saw blade. Per the manufacturer
this step is no longer necessary due to a redesign of the jig; the set screws referred to no longer exist

[pat warner]

Cut with routers (http://patwarner.com/images/index_tenon.jpg): Close to + or - .00n".

[Hovey Moore]

11" is really bigger than these jigs are designed for and the board may be deflecting slightly while under the stress of cutting. Regardless, I would use a dado blade, router, or plane for something that wide. Should be easier and faster at that width.

[Tom Hargrove]

I made both of my tenoning jigs out of scrap plywood. One rides on the fence, the other rides next to the fence, so they are as accurate as the fence.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose..............

That looks for all the world to be identical to the Delta tenoning jig I bought when I got my Uni 13+ years ago, except the "Rockler Blue" paint job, and the handle style on the long work-hold screw.

Mine has always worked ducky.........wait for it............BUT - I have never used it for anything over, oh, I dunno, mebbe 5" - 6". Art the far outside of the range.

On the [very rare] longer stuff, I use the TS, a miter gauge, and a dado setup, with a shop-made accessory fence clamped to the TS fence - slight curved relief so the dado stack can sit under the accessory fence without the blades hitting the TS fence.

I think Hovey got it right - you are trying to get more out of the tool than it can reliably deliver.

[Sam Murdoch]

I too bought the Rockler jig you are asking about. Too bad :(. First thing I needed to do was modify the slide bar guide with UHMW strips to eliminate the wobble in my TS slot. As you discovered the manual is useless and the supplemental may just as well have been written in Chinese. The reference to parts numbers don't match the parts. Don't know why Rockler has not been motivated to replace this jig with a better version or at the least to rewrite the manual.

Anyway - I have used it on quite a few projects with lots of parts and once it is set up I get consistent results, but it takes at least a 1/2 hour (on a good day) and many, many test pieces to get it right. Better not forget a part - you'll waste another hour tweaking the jig to its original position. Some tools make me smile every time I use them - this one make me grimace. But, yes, it does the job. If I had no scruples I would put this in the classifieds and foist it off some other poor unsuspecting soul and go out and buy myself a better version. No idea what that might be.

Having said all that - I agree that 11" is too wide for this jig. You might get to 6" or 7" but 11" is too far beyond the support of the tool to get consistent results without some modifications.

[Tom Jones III]

That is what I suspected, 11" is just more than the jig was intended for. The best news is that the Rockler guys are extremely nice and as helpful as can be. For this project I'll either go the router route (sorry, I couldn't help myself) or go the dado/shoulder plane route.

[Dave Lehnert]

That jig is now $115.00? I have the Rockler jig and like it a lot but know I did not pay that much for it.

[Carl Beckett]

I'm in the middle of a batch of chairs. Maybe just under 100 joints. I quit cutting them with power tools and just knock them out with a hand plane. Very surprised at how smoothly they went.

My personal favorite is the LV skewed block for this.

Think will hold onto the tenoning jig for a while and see if it gets used

[Alan Bienlein]

That's why I built this tenon jig. Cost about $21 and I can cut both sides of the tenon without having to unclamp and turn the piece around.
240989240990240991

[Leo Graywacz]

I make my 2 cuts differently than that jig you made. I just put two blades with a spacer in between them, one push gives both cuts.

http://fototime.com/D8E03AE6EE1F34B/orig.jpg

That was for some passage doors I had built.

[Phil Thien]

At first glance of the supplement document I was hopeful, but this is the first paragraph:

As previously reported, the instructions for the jig include an erroneous reference to a method for
adjusting the vertical work support plate (C) to make it parallel to the saw blade. Per the manufacturer
this step is no longer necessary due to a redesign of the jig; the set screws referred to no longer exist

Yeah, I saw that too. But I had thought that the other calibrating steps may have made the plate parallel to the blade via another method. I mean, that is a lot of steps, what the heck are they all for if parallelism isn't achieved?

[glenn bradley]

The supplemental document seems to offer some other alignment instructions. Do those work?

http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000559AA.pdf


At first glance of the supplement document I was hopeful, but this is the first paragraph:

As previously reported, the instructions for the jig include an erroneous reference to a method for
adjusting the vertical work support plate (C) to make it parallel to the saw blade. Per the manufacturer
this step is no longer necessary due to a redesign of the jig; the set screws referred to no longer exist

That's fascinating. The manufacturer has managed to redesign the jig so that it auto-magically aligns with ANY saw. Cool!!! I'd return that.

[Phil Thien]

That's fascinating. The manufacturer has managed to redesign the jig so that it auto-magically aligns with ANY saw. Cool!!! I'd return that.

Yeah, looking at the supplement again, it says the instructions adjust three things, and none of them are parallelism.

I'd build my own.

[Sam Murdoch]

I make my 2 cuts differently than that jig you made. I just put two blades with a spacer in between them, one push gives both cuts.

http://fototime.com/D8E03AE6EE1F34B/orig.jpg

That was for some passage doors I had built.


This works well for me too.

[Rod Sheridan]

241039241040241041241042241043

Regards, Rod.

[Kirk Poore]

C'mon, now, Rod, if you're going to up the ante, I'll post pics of my tenoner. But that doesn't do those with the Rockler jig much good, does it?

I have the Woodcraft version of the jig, bought a few years ago. Maybe it's been "value engineered" since then too, but there was an article in FWW that I seem to remember specifically mentioning these adjustments. I assume the problem is with the mounting holes on base that hold the miter slot bar. If the mounting holes are off, I'd drill a bigger hole in the bar to shift it the right direction, put something in the hole to force the screw to stay in the right place, then tighten it down. If the bar itself is too small, drill crossways, tap, and add a couple of set screws to take up the slack.

Kirk

[Rod Sheridan]

C'mon, now, Rod, if you're going to up the ante, I'll post pics of my tenoner. But that doesn't do those with the Rockler jig much good, does it?


Kirk
No, however it fits with my previous post that I wouldn't make a tenon that large on a tenon jig, and was meant to be humourous.

I had a tenon jig for my cabinet saw, fortunately it was adjustable and I managed to adjust it properly so it made accurate tenons.

Iwas surprised to hear the tenon jig didn't have any adjustments.........Rod.

P.S. I would love to see a picture of your tenoner, I haven't seen one in decades.

[Kirk Poore]

No, however it fits with my previous post that I wouldn't make a tenon that large on a tenon jig, and was meant to be humourous.

I had a tenon jig for my cabinet saw, fortunately it was adjustable and I managed to adjust it properly so it made accurate tenons.

Iwas surprised to hear the tenon jig didn't have any adjustments.........Rod.

P.S. I would love to see a picture of your tenoner, I haven't seen one in decades.

Sorry, I guess the humor got held up at the border.:)

I think if the board is warped, you're going to wind up with a straight tenon and a warped board no matter what method you use (though hand-planed would probably be leasted warped). Both the shaper clamp and the tenon jig clamp would tend to flatten things out, though, while the dado blade/double saw blade option wouldn't. The wider board certainly exacerbates any existing problems.


I though I'd posted the tenoner restoration project here--maybe I forgot. But here's a pic:
241050
Levi-Houston, circa 1880, with a sliding table. I haven't touched my tenoning jig or tried to make tenons on my shaper since I finished it last January.

Kirk

[Rod Sheridan]

Kirk, beautiful old tenoner, very nice.

I saw a tenoner of that vintage on Roy Underhill's TV program, where it had a rotating eliptical holder to make tenons for window sash........Great old machines....Thanks, Rod.

[Mike Cutler]

Kirk

That is cool!!! :cool: You should make a video to show that in action.

As for the OP's question;
11" would definitely be the outside for a Delta 180 series tenon jig clone, but .017 really isn't all that bad, all things considered.
The Delta 180's, and their clones suffer from what I consider manufacturing/design defect. Principally the miter bar is loose in the miter slot.
Delta maintained that it was intentional to facilitate bringing the material back through the spinning blade. You were supposed to apply pressure toward the blade on the cutting stroke and move the material away from the blade on the return. Imho it's nonsense, and I told them that.
A page out of a magazine will tighten up the bar in the slot. It also makes the jig slide easier.
As for the missing adjustments; even on the original 180's it really didn't work that well and was pretty coarse. I ended up using the miter bar off an old INCRA miter and drilled and tapped new holes. The older INCRA Miter bars worked pretty well, because the have a split phenolic washer to adjust the bar in the slot. I actually reinstalled the original bar when I had to set it up to run to the left of the blade in my General, so now I just take a page out of a People magazine and tighten it up.Plus I got my old INCRA miter back.
The Tenon jig you have is capable of some pretty consistent, repeatable tenons. It just needs a little fine tuning work. One additional factor to tune out is the face of the tenon jig being square to the blade. I used MDF and motor mounting shims to fabricate a face that was parallel and perpendicular to the blade as the material moved through it.
I like mine and use it fairly often. I'll try an 11" wide.board and see how it does.

[Floyd Mah]

All of those tenoning jigs appear to be of the same design, by all appearances, because of its intended use. It's kind of like the wheel. You can't build a useful tenoning jig without incorporating the same parts. Having said that, the way I learned to adjust (and modify (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116158-Modify-your-Delta-Tenoning-jig&highlight=)) my Delta tenon jig was to take it apart completely. All the screws removed. This will allow you to understand how to adjust and use it. Before I did that, even with the jig's manual in my hand, I couldn't really understand what any of the adjustment screws actually did. Since it doesn't seem to work as it currently is set up, take it apart and learn to adjust it.

[Myk Rian]

supplemental document explaining the the adjustment screws were no longer necessary so they have been removed from current versions of the product!
Wonder what lame brain decided that.

[Leo Graywacz]

They got to lower the price of the screws, saving you a tiny bit on the price and them a lot in total manufacturing costs. To bad it rendered the product below satisfactory and no one will buy it anymore.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I make my 2 cuts differently than that jig you made. I just put two blades with a spacer in between them, one push gives both cuts.

http://fototime.com/D8E03AE6EE1F34B/orig.jpg

That was for some passage doors I had built.

I have done that same thing, when I am cutting angled tenons. I still run the rails across with the Delta jig to hold them, and tilt the blade gang.

To be honest, one thing I like about the Delta-style jig is that I don't have to fool around with detailed measurements - I set it "fat", then cut-flip-cut, and try it in the mortise. Adjust jig. Rinse. Repeat. I always get a perfectly centered tenon that is dead-nuts the right thickness. OF course, if I only have a couple tenons to do, I don't bother with any of this noise - Mr Bandsaw and Mr Face Float. But when I've got multiples, that one setup cycle on the Delta jig gives me fast, accurate, glue-ready results.

Just one guy's approach. Until I tool up like Rod...... ;)

[Paul Murphy]

This is a good thread, lots of slick solutions suggested. I always learn something from these exchanges that I would miss in a magazine or book.

Rod, I like the shaper tenons, I would be interested in hearing about cost effective cutters for tenons at least 1-1/4" long on a small shaper with 3/4" spindle.

Leo, I like your spacer, I never have tried that method as I was unsure of vibration and/or runout. Obviously you have solved any of those concerns, I like the concept. Do you have any tips for us in using your spacer method? I have used the shim on the tenon jig method, and it offers a similar advantage of uniform tenon thickness, but requires twice as many passes across the saw.

Pat probably has the universal reccommendation for very wide tenons, the router. When making breadboard ends for tables, etc. I like the router because you can also clamp cauls across the workpiece to flatten if necessary. Also your tenons can be whatever length you choose, just cut stock long enough to leave unmilled router support at the outer edge and saw you tenon to finished length as the final step. You can make a jig that covers both surfaces of the panel, clamp, and then your shoulders line up perfectly on both sides of the workpiece. My router with dust collection has iffy depth adjustment, so I shim to final depth by removing paper shims between the aluminum sub-base and plexiglass base.

[Leo Graywacz]

Just run the stock through the planer and it is parallel. Then drill the 5/8" hole in the center, as close as possible. Remember a 1/4" tenon will require a spacer that is probably at least a 32nd bigger than the tenon thickness because the plate is smaller than the teeth. I have several sizes that I have made. I usually make the tenons first when I do it this way then I can match the mortise up to get perfect alignment and width of the slot. If you are using a fixed bit to do the mortise then you have to match the tenon thickness up to that.

Paper is usually .0025-.0035 thick. Blue tape is .005, green tape is .004. In case you need to make small adjustments without making new spacers.

[Lee Schierer]

I've never used one before and I just bought the Rockler tenoning jig. I'm measuring it at about .017" out of alignment with the TS blade and there is no adjustment on the jig to get it more accurate. My measurement for out of alignment is just on the fence of the jig so across the 4" or so it is out by 0.17".



I have the Delta version of this jig and it appears that the Rockler one is a clone of the one Delta used to sell. With that said, I had never checked my jig so I took out my trusty dial indicator and magnetic mount for it and checked mine. It was out of parallel to the blade about 0.012". I don't recall receiving any alignment instructions, but within 2 minutes of tinkering I with the two screws that hold the miter gauge bar in place and the two holding the round bar that the jig top assembly slides on I was able to adjust my jig to within 0.003" across the face, noting that the face is out of flat by about 0.002". The easiest way to adjust the jig is to slightly loosen the two screws holding the 3/4" diameter rod to the base. 241103 Place the jig on the saw with the bar in the miter slot. Set your dial indicator up and see where you are. With the large handle on the slot snug, light taps on the end of the rod would change the reading. 241104Once I got it where I wanted it, I firmly tighten the large handle (upper right in photo) and then flipped the jig over to tighten the two screws in the round bar. By tapping on the end of the round bar I was able to adjust my gauge as noted above in less than 10 minutes. You might be able to dial it in closer, but 0.003" in wood working is not significant.

[David Peebles 1]

You might try putting a wider (an even taller) auxiliary fence on the tenoning jig to handle the wider board. 3/4" ply, maybe, put on the double stick tape.

[Myk Rian]

That is what I suspected, 11" is just more than the jig was intended for. The best news is that the Rockler guys are extremely nice and as helpful as can be. For this project I'll either go the router route (sorry, I couldn't help myself) or go the dado/shoulder plane route.

Or get your money back and get a Delta.
Mine was adjustable, and I still have it.

[pat warner]

"that or should I use another method to make the 2 tenons on that board? "
****************************************\
I would. What? Routers and work holding fixtures. How close? ~<+ or -.002". (http://patwarner.com/images/index_tenon.jpg)