My Next BadAxe

[Matt Radtke]

I'm thinking about snagging another BadAxe saw, but I have random thoughts kicking around my brain.

At first glance, I feel like a sash saw is what I want. I recently made some wider table aprons and the LV carcass crosscut just seemed too short. The quality of of the cut was fine, but I really felt like it was too much work. My concern is that a sash saw might be slightly too coarse for fine work like tenon shoulders, but that if I get it filed finer, it'd be pigeon holed as "the saw I only use for wide aprons."

So what should I do? Get the sash at 13 PPI or something finer? Or would I miss the mark with either option based on how I want to use it?

[Adam Cruea]

I know this is doofy, but talk to Mark about it. I mean, he makes the saws, maybe he can suggest something a little more appropriate for the work and the wood you'll be working. You can specify custom TPI, after all. . .maybe something like a .5 for just a little coarser, but keep it still pretty fine. The Veritas is 14 TPI. . .I can't imagine that 12 TPI would make that worse of a cut, but might be a little faster.

Just curious, though. . .what's "too much work" for crosscutting? My Veritas makes pretty short work of hickory. I mean, I don't expect it to cut it like a panel saw, but at the same time, as long as it's waxed up and I can keep the blade in the cut, it's a pretty quick little saw, and that's cutting through 2 inches of hickory 3.5 inches wide.

[Matt Radtke]

I know this is doofy, but talk to Mark about it. I mean, he makes the saws, maybe he can suggest something a little more appropriate for the work and the wood you'll be working. You can specify custom TPI, after all. . .maybe something like a .5 for just a little coarser, but keep it still pretty fine. The Veritas is 14 TPI. . .I can't imagine that 12 TPI would make that worse of a cut, but might be a little faster.

Just curious, though. . .what's "too much work" for crosscutting? My Veritas makes pretty short work of hickory. I mean, I don't expect it to cut it like a panel saw, but at the same time, as long as it's waxed up and I can keep the blade in the cut, it's a pretty quick little saw, and that's cutting through 2 inches of hickory 3.5 inches wide.

I had sent Mark an email last night and I kind of got a canned response. I presume the guy is busy and he's got his wife or someone else handling the email duties.

By too much work, I'm talking about the length of the saw vs. the length of the workpiece. It seemed out of scale and required much more concentration. Now, I expect this to a point, but on each shoulder I kept missing for just a bit more length. For smaller work, I love the Veritas set.

[Chris Griggs]

Get the sash in 13ppi. Heck I'd get it 12ppi. You're, presumably, scoring you shoulder lines anyway, so the coarseness doesn't matter all that much. I've cut shoulders using a 9ppi panel saw and had no problems. That said, I generally go back and do at least a little cleaning with a chisels or a shoulder plane anyway. YMMV.

[Tim Null]

Have you thought about the 16" tenon, otherwise known as the Jacksaw?

I have this filed rip, a 12" hybrid filed crosscut, and a dovetail. I also have the Grammercy sash as well as the Veratis pair you have. Also a pair of panel saws from Wenzloff I bought as kits, both rip and crosscut. I don't have a large rip as I still do that with the table saw.

I don't know what else you have, but it seems like you might want to get the saws that will set you up with the most versatility first and then fill in the small gaps later. I set up my nest of saws to cover the options I might need with the least amount of duplication. That said, I could limit my list by eliminating the hybrid and possibly the sash. The tenon if it was filed hybrid would do for larger projects and the Veritas for smaller. Dovetail, no explanation. Panel, ditto.

So mine as a minimum set would be:

Panel, crosscut and rip
Jack, or 16" tenon, hybrid
Veritas set
Dovetail

My other saws simply fill in gaps in which they would do certain tasks better than the other option due to specificity.

So I would get the 16" tenon now and a sash later. I love Bad Axe, but the Grammercy sash is pretty sweet if you already have the tenon. Although if I knew about Bad Axe first, all of my saws would be from him (Mark need to make panel saws.....LOL).

Hope this helps,

Tim

[Matt Radtke]

Have you thought about the 16" tenon, otherwise known as the Jacksaw?


I already have the Beast as my dedicated rip tenon saw, so the Jack saw doesn't really have a role in my nest. I'm looking quite specifically for a crosscut saw.

[Adam Cruea]

I already have the Beast as my dedicated rip tenon saw, so the Jack saw doesn't really have a role in my nest. I'm looking quite specifically for a crosscut saw.

I'm getting a 16" tenon in rip and x-cut. I mean, I don't foresee ever needing to x-cut something deeper than 4 inches for a finishing cut, so hey. . .

[Tim Null]

Ahhh, did not know that. In that case, 12 or 13 would work. I know I spent lots of time going back and forth on the same issue for my saws, what filing. More importantly, what fasteners and back? LOL

But seriously, since you have the Beast at I assume 9 tpi, then 12 makes more sense to me. The Veritas is 14, so a two tooth difference would seem to be more versatile in the long run.

I agree with Adam in that 12 should still be a fine enough cut, but be slightly faster for the larger jobs.

If your e-mail was not detailed enough, then it might have gotten a generic answer. When I ordered saws, I sent him a long, detailed e-mail and he responded with a detailed answer. It took several back and forths, but I got the info I needed. You're right, he may have help in answering some of the e-mails. You need to make sure it gets to him and not an assistant.

[Ron Bontz]

Matt, Just my 2 cents. Do you have anyone near you to try their saws? If you want to try a 13ppi x cut I can send you one to try. 3.5 under spine and 16" long. Regan style.Sorry it is not a bad ax saw. But might give you a better idea of ppi you want. I have a pretty generic 14ppi, and several others as I have been experimenting these last few months. If nothing else you can get a better idea if it is stroke length you are more concerned with or the ppi, rake and fleam issues. I am guessing it would help make Mark's life a little easier and speed things up a bit for you as well. Best of luck. Ron

[Jeff Heath]

My larger back saws are 14" and 16" older Disston's that I re-filed myself. They are all 12 ppi and they cut very accurately. I've never owned a Bad Axe saw, but I hear they are high quality, so if your sawing technique is good, and you strike your shoulders and cheeks, you will be quite happy with the quality of 12 ppi cut.

You are right in thinking that for wider cuts, you'll want a longer saw in your hand. I think that you will cut straighter with a nice, evenly paced stroke versus a shorter, choppy stroke because of running out of saw plate.

Jeff

[Jim Matthews]

You are right in thinking that for wider cuts, you'll want a longer saw in your hand. I think that you will cut straighter with a nice, evenly paced stroke versus a shorter, choppy stroke because of running out of saw plate. Jeff

That was well said.

The flip side is that backsaws are heavy, by design.
I find that anything longer than the distance from my elbow to the middle of my palm is unused.
That's the length of a "piston" stroke I can take without shifting my weight, or rocking forward.

Anything longer than this is panel saw territory.
(For me, anyway.)

For those who are interested, our own Ron Bontz makes and awesome transitional "halfback" saw which fills this role nicely.