M/F #1 pinion removal problem

[Robert Kessler Leibold]

I have a Millers Falls #1 hand drill, single pinion (as you all know) and I am having a lot of difficulty removing the pinion pin. I am well over two hours, probably a lot more, working on this one issue. I have the right punches, I have tried both sides with the punch and I have even filed one side down to almost even with the pinion spindle thinking it might be burred. I have soaked it overnight, I have used Kroil (lots of it) and I have cussed a little too! I'm afraid of hitting too hard as I am worried about breaking the frame, but I have been giving it pretty goods taps too. Will the pinion be damaged if I put a butane torch to it? Not worried about paint as I already have it stripped.
Now it works fine just the way it is, but I'm determined to remove it and clean thoroughly and repaint before reinstalling the pinion.
I'm reduced here to begging.....begging for some thoughts on removal of this pin.
Should I even consider drilling it out? Or, maybe a bigger hammer?!...lol
I tried my little butane torch, still nothing although I didn't hold the torch on there for more than about 20 seconds or so.

Thanks,
Bob (central FL)
charlindabob at yahoo dot com

[mike holden]

Just a thought, try going to a hobby shop that handles radio control cars and check out gear pullers. They should probably be the right size for this job.
Mike

[george wilson]

The way to remove a pin I would recommend is by drilling,if it won't budge. Drilling truly down the center of the pin is the tricky part. I'd grind a point on a nail. Clamp it in your drill press and drill a hole that snugly fits the nail with the center on it. This center needs to be ground ACCURATELY on center. You can do this by cutting the head off a good size nail. Hold it in an electric drill and apply it while running the drill,to a grinding wheel which is running,of course.

After you drill the hole to fit this nail into the block of wood,do not move the clamped down block as it is directly in line with the hole. Insert the nail point up.

Center punch BOTH ends of the pin you are removing. Make a good,strong punch mark so the drill won't run off into the softer cast iron. Select a drill smaller than the pin and chuck it up. Run the drill press at a good speed. Set the center punched pin on the tip of the nail in the block. Align the top side of the pin carefully with the small drill and carefully drill into the pin,clearing the drill often. When you are most of the way through,turn the eggbeater over,place the drilled hole over the nail center,and drill from that side to complete the hole. If you manage to keep the drill centered inside the pin,you can drill the pin accurately all the way through. Next,take a drill the same size as the pin and finish drilling out the pin,drilling from both sides as before.

I hope these instructions are clear. The nail center underneath the pin will make sure you stay inside the pin on center as you drill. This nail center is the most important part of the whole job. You can make a new pin out of a coat hanger wire though the original was likely tapered. Just file the ends flat and leave them projecting a tad above booth sides of the hole,and peen them a little to secure it. Just a little peening will be sufficient.

[Robert Kessler Leibold]

Thanks to you both. I will attempt to drill it out tomorrow as I am at my wits end right now on this (I have it here on the computer desk staring at me) and drilling seems to be the best option. I did remove the chuck and put on four washers that just fit over the threaded shaft and then put the chuck back on and gently tightened it against the washers. This keeps the pinion gear steady and doesn't allow it to rotate. I think the pinion pin shaft is slightly off center, or so it seems by me eyeballing it. Only a fraction, but enough to be aware when drilling. Maybe once a small bit has drilled through the pin it could be tapped out with a punch? Just don't want to oversize the hole if this pin hole is off center some. I will try that nail trick too....thanks.

[Robert Kessler Leibold]

Update:..........Using the nail idea, I drilled a very small hole down the center (pretty close to center as far as I could tell) and then repeated with larger bits until the pin came out in pieces using the punch. Then I used a bit I thought was the appropriate pin size and "cleaned" out the hole through the shaft and pinion.....FINALLY!

I am very glad I did this step as the ball bearings were worn and two were (or maybe it was one) in halves. Probably two as I look at them. Not sure how many ball bearing there is suppose to be (maybe 5?), but they are shot. They appear to be a tad smaller than 1/8", but that may well be due to the wear they have seen. Of course, they haven't seen the light of day in over 90 years either.


Thanks again!

[george wilson]

You will either have to buy a box full of balls,or cut open a ball bearing assembly with a Dremel cut off wheel. Need to find some bearing with balls the correct size. You just need enough to lay in a circle around in the groove. Actually,BB's are made within .001" of round,but aren't hardened. They'd outlast you if they would fit. Roller skate bearings might be about the right size,but they are sold in sets. You don't need to buy the higher priced ones. Only a few millionths of difference in their balls tolerances. This is a very low speed application.BB's probably would be fine,if not too large. they are just under .177 diameter. That's the caliber barrel they have to go through.

[Jim Koepke]

You will either have to buy a box full of balls,or cut open a ball bearing assembly with a Dremel cut off wheel.

One place to check for individual balls for bearings is a bicycle shop. Some that do a lot of repairs will have various sizes in stock.

jtk

[george wilson]

I have used the technique of center punching the other end of the hole(where I want it to emerge) many times,especially in the lathe. It really helps to guarantee exactly WHERE that drilled hole is going to go out the other side(barring messed up drill bit,crooked or badly sharpened).

[Jeff L Miller]

EDIT, next time I'll read the whole thread before I reply.


I am also of the "determined" mind set group and know how hard it can be to stop tinkering with something. You might also check Wiktor's site http://www.wkfinetools.com/ for info on how to work on these drills. At least there are beautiful examples to aim for.

Jeff

[Michael Ray Smith]

Actually,BB's are made within .001" of round,but aren't hardened. They'd outlast you if they would fit. Roller skate bearings might be about the right size,but they are sold in sets. You don't need to buy the higher priced ones. Only a few millionths of difference in their balls tolerances. This is a very low speed application.BB's probably would be fine,if not too large. they are just under .177 diameter. That's the caliber barrel they have to go through.

George, the stuff you know amazes me. How the heck did you just happen to have this information in your brain, especially the precision for BB's?

Mike

[Ryan Baker]

George, the stuff you know amazes me. How the heck did you just happen to have this information in your brain, especially the precision for BB's?

Mike

Maybe George made some reproduction, 18th century, black-powder BB muskets! He's made pretty much everything else. :)

Makes me want to go down to the shop and measure some BBs but I know he will be right.

[george wilson]

I sort of collect air guns and have an old "Encyclopedia of Airguns"(something like that) which states that fact when it goes into the history and manufacture of Daisy guns. I collect more serious air guns than those!! Old Webleys,1907 BSA's,old Walthers.

[Jim Koepke]

I sort of collect air guns and have an old "Encyclopedia of Airguns"(something like that) which states that fact when it goes into the history and manufacture of Daisy guns. I collect more serious air guns than those!! Old Webleys,1907 BSA's,old Walthers.

Would you happen to have a Girandoni air riffle in your collection?

Now that would be something.

jtk

[george wilson]

I could only WISH to have one of those!!! My best is a 1927 Webley "service rifle" air gun. Used to train the British Army. It has a little bolt action that serves to lock down the tip-up barrel after a pellet is inserted. They were machined out box solid steel,cylinder and all-no tubing. They had automotive type piston rings rather than letter or rubber seals,and make higher compression with a smaller cylinder than my 1907 BSA's(which are wonderful quality,too). The BSA's are quite heavily made also. For example,their cocking levers are solid machined out steel,not just sheet steel folded into a "U" shape cross section. Their barrels must have been machined from a forging,because the breech ends flare out to about 1 1/2" wide "T" shape,where a "loading tap" is inserted across the breech. You turn the tap vertical,drop in a pellet,and turn it horizontal to get it in line with the barrel. Just ahead of this tap,with no seams at all,the barrel becomes about 3/4" diameter,and tapers to the muzzle. Very heavily made.

I have a Walther pellet pistol that is just as accurate as any .22 at target ranges. It is the gun that James Bond is seen holding straight up in the well known poster. Why they chose an air gun,who knows?? Looks like a real gun,I guess. It has a real hair trigger that is adjustable. Looks like a Colt Woodsman.